Barbarians - The Follow Up Thread

[XodousRoC]

So far I'm pretty happy with the changes played my way up to 17th now as a occult slayer lvl 15barb/2rogue with a few things from the other trees. Compared with the other melee classes and feats single weapon fighting is still way overpowered and the kensai tree is pretty weak and I never could get some of the enhancements to work. A paladin with single weapon fighting still does three times the damage of any other melee seems like that's pretty much what 50% of the server I am on play and that combination can easily solo seems like any quest on elite even at epic levels. I like the barbarian changes you've made although I haven't tried them on epic yet. Kensai is pretty much only used as a splash tree as far as I can tell and doesn't compare really to any of the other melee types. That all being said I really like the changes as far as I've played them. My only wish is that Barbarians got enough feats to make them into viable two weapon users. Seems they're a feat or two short of being real effective in that regard. That hasn't stopped me from making one though . I like the new enhancement trees pretty much as is so far. To summarize my rambling message I like the new trees so far for Barbarian although they're much weaker than any class really with Single weapon fighting. Kensai is the weakest of the melee atm and SWF is by far the most powerful form of fighting doing consistently two or three times as much as two handed fighting or two weapon fighting. I'd reduce the damage the SWF feat does and power up the kensai tree for fighters a little. So far I'm perfectly happy with the new barbarian enhancement trees as far as I've played in them. Currently a paladin with SWF is the most powerful toon that exists and I personally would like to see them nerfed instead of the other melee classes and combos powered up. Thanks for taking the time to hear our suggestions.

1) I'll agree Barb could use feats, but all classes have their limitations, and this is common to paladin and bard as well.
2) Pally is viable dps, but it isn't clearly king in the conversation for tops. A well built bard will out dps them with a crit on every other hit (or more). I probably shouldn't mention broken Druid wolf forms, but since we are talking current functionality, Druid is incredible dps. I've been seeing numbers off my Ravager that I would posit as just as good as any pally (to level 13...we'll see when the true comparo takes effect at 14+).
3) Nerfing SWF because you don't like melee being viable in EE doesn't mean SWF should be nerfed. I'm tired of watching monkchers and shiradi casters tear the mickey out of everything while melee gets left running in circles and chain casting Rejuvy.
4) The capstone of Ravager has been used to great effect in EE by some of my guildies and by others we run with. This is my first pure barb built since pre-enh pass. I hated them before. I'm loving them now (in heroics). Again, we'll see Barb's true colors once I hit the far side of 20, but so far so good. If I can hit that cap cleave like some of the folks I run with, I'd have a really hard time saying Ravager sucks. Their heal on hit mechanic scared me with its randomness, but it procs often enough for me to gather up rooms of mobs and cleave them into oblivion without ever getting nervous with my hp (again, at lvl 13).
5) Turning a barb feedback thread into a plea for nerfs to feats or other classes isn't keeping the thread on track. My feedback (to this point) is very positive. I can't believe I even just wrote that...

[Qhualor]

So far I'm pretty happy with the changes played my way up to 17th now as a occult slayer lvl 15barb/2rogue with a few things from the other trees. Compared with the other melee classes and feats single weapon fighting is still way overpowered and the kensai tree is pretty weak and I never could get some of the enhancements to work. A paladin with single weapon fighting still does three times the damage of any other melee seems like that's pretty much what 50% of the server I am on play and that combination can easily solo seems like any quest on elite even at epic levels. I like the barbarian changes you've made although I haven't tried them on epic yet. Kensai is pretty much only used as a splash tree as far as I can tell and doesn't compare really to any of the other melee types. That all being said I really like the changes as far as I've played them. My only wish is that Barbarians got enough feats to make them into viable two weapon users. Seems they're a feat or two short of being real effective in that regard. That hasn't stopped me from making one though . I like the new enhancement trees pretty much as is so far. To summarize my rambling message I like the new trees so far for Barbarian although they're much weaker than any class really with Single weapon fighting. Kensai is the weakest of the melee atm and SWF is by far the most powerful form of fighting doing consistently two or three times as much as two handed fighting or two weapon fighting. I'd reduce the damage the SWF feat does and power up the kensai tree for fighters a little. So far I'm perfectly happy with the new barbarian enhancement trees as far as I've played in them. Currently a paladin with SWF is the most powerful toon that exists and I personally would like to see them nerfed instead of the other melee classes and combos powered up. Thanks for taking the time to hear our suggestions.

I do still think SWF is too powerful, but I like watching the paladins use Holy Retribution so they can get some kills before my barb gets it.

I did 3 TWF barb lives, one life in each tree, and the only thing really missing is attack speed. other than that, damage is quite good, but not as good as a 2HF. Ravager would be a great tree for a TWF if the debuffs worked better in epics.

[Damion01]

Hi there, love you Devs and i have really never had a bad experience at all in DDO that couldn't be fixed in one way or another, so in other words im extremely happy with DDO in anyway shape or form. But i'm wondering if this is the direction DDO is going in, and if that was truely what was intended?

Last i checked in Dungeons and Dragons, every single class wasn't able to just self heal, solo EE content, rogues are invited to grps for xp bonuses on traps.. .and not to disable them because the traps will wipe the grp otherwise?

Clerics are sitting outside instances with "will work for food" signs because really... they arent needed
Warriors are getting all plated up.. getting their PRR/MRR up.. polishing their shields... to have a wizard just bulldoze the entire instance regardless of who has aggro or not
Paladins... i dunno these days they should just be on cereal boxes as the new DDO heros for wheaties or something
Wizards and Sorcs can just blast their way through EE content, every FOD or Energy burst destroying the entire room with little need of anyone else

i mean.... seriously? where is the need of any class anymore? is there any chance on things taking maybe a few steps back.. those traps in Von3 doing 1000000 dmg if they hit you?
clerics actually needing to heal in instances
fightesr and paladins actually having to hold aggro or the grp gets wiped
sorcs actually having to CC not just to boost dmg, but because the monsters will wreck the grp if they dont?

If we arent going in that direction.. fine i love ddo anyway... but its just crazy how barbarians and what next? rogues?? "why doesnt my rogue have self healing!!!" if it was up to me id put a 30 second cooldown on Rejuvenation Cocoon and that would be the first step to getting DDO back to where i believe it should be.

[zaphear]

I'm now I'm on my 3rd Barb life, 2nd since the patch.. first life was a 12 barb 7 bard 1 fvs split. And it was fairly OP, using THF and Warchanter. I thought I would sometimes use the Barb rage for the extra strength sometimes, but it just isn't worth it imo. Much easier to just use Divine Might and a Bard rage and still be able to cast/heal/use clickies.

My current build is 8 barb 7 cleric 5 fighter and it's very OP..oh and I'm using SWF khopesh since it's still better (single target..) dps than THF even with a SoS. Divine Might and Stalwart Defender are WAAAAAY better than anything the dumb Barb Rage could give..



Way to screw the pooch on em, personally I'll never play a pure barb or use barb rage.. and I laugh way too often at the Barbs dying in my groups and me playing healer to them...and then solo'ing the rest of the quest.

[Monkey-Boy]

My current build is 8 barb 7 cleric 5 fighter and it's very OP..oh and I'm using SWF khopesh since it's still better (single target..) dps than THF even with a SoS. Divine Might and Stalwart Defender are WAAAAAY better than anything the dumb Barb Rage could give..

I'm not sure there are words in the English language that can properly describe the level of 'wrong' reached in the above post.

[Blackheartox]

I'm not sure there are words in the English language that can properly describe the level of 'wrong' reached in the above post.

You know.
That is why we cant have ee as it should be

[krom_user]

I have lvl 20 barb and have about 40 points in frenzied and 30 points in occult. With lots of heal amp, greater regeneration, healing spring, Ed fast healing, pl fast healing, rejuvenate cocoon, I'm set there. I solo a bunch of ee quests with thf thunder home axe and nice epic gear. I love it. With heavy armor, I got a ton of prr and mrr.It's the opposite of the mentality of many players. However I do well with kill counts, grab aggro, and can take a hit without going to the er. I enjoy the versatility. If I wanted to go all out dps, I could change the build. I would need a healer though. Back when running in dedicated groups was the norm, this was possible. However, now when you pug, it's understood that you will be self sufficient to a degree, especially in the higher level content. The changes made to the barb class allow us to still remain with a toon that we enjoy, that is also viable.

I make no claims that this is the most awesomeest build ever. It's one I enjoy. I do well in ee quests with groups and can manage them on my own, albeit slower.

In summary, the changes make the class more viable for the direction that the server headed.

[Bladebolt]

First things first, as a barbarian fanatic I want to thank you, Devs, for the barbarian update.
Barbarians have become totally viable!
I really have fun playing and doing stuff that was impossible before the update.

I still stand by my objections though.
I would like to see more diversity in the trees,
get rid of a lot of useless enhancements,
split the good ones to 2 tiers and spread them lower in the trees.
And I would turn the self healing/dps balance more towards dps.

Not that the dps is bad!

I am an average player, only got 4 epic past lives on my barb and with the exception of some super star players and a few completionists in every run I am the front line weapon.

Sometimes it is hard to survive when casters are on my case, saves are not top notch, but hey! I am a barbarian. What the hell?
Should I be able to solo all EE end game content? In my opinion Hell NO!
Not until I have the best items and all the past life goodies.
Still it is really good being able to play your part in a party. I can take the "raw" damage, I can get the trash on me and kick their a$$is while at the same time rogues assassinate them, casters whip them out etc etc...

So as objective as I can be, despite my objections, Barbs are now GREAT dps (maybe not the best? not in my opinion), good at surviving and fun to play.
So despite all my complains thank you for your work!

[Thrudh]

There is zero chance I'll ever go pure barb or even use Barb Rage. Not being able to use clickies and having to rely on STORE BOUGHT pots (I see what you did there..) is stupid.

You can use guild pots while raged (bought from vendors in House K near the mailbox)