champions sucks.

[Monkey-Boy]

. . . let's get naked and live like monkeys and hump each other whenever we feel like.

May I use this as a signature quote?

[minimomo]

May I use this as a signature quote?

sure hahah

[Flavilandile]

If you can't handle Elite, try Hard; if you can't handle Hard, try Normal.

There's 4 levels of difficulties in the quests, they are not meant to be 'Automatic Completion on Highest difficulty setting'.

This is an issue that appeared with MotU and the Epic Destinies and got compounded with Shadowfail.
It is getting fixed ( finally ). Even if I disagree with how it is being fixed ( crowned meatballs with inflated HPs), it is getting fixed, and that's good.

as I pointed in another thread : DDO used to be unforgiving, even in the starter area ( now Crystal Cove ) where you could die as a rogue from a blowing trap box in your intro quest.

While I do not want it back to that time ( It was really painful, and life expectancy of a permadeath character was numbered in hours ), I want it to be more difficult that what it is right now.

[Monkey-Boy]

If you can't handle Elite, try Hard; if you can't handle Hard, try Normal.

Did you even read his post? An 800 HP level 25 toon was running a LEVEL 18 HEROIC elite quest for favor and got one-shotted by a no-save spell.

Please tell me how this isn't broken.

[FlawSpitter]

Did you even read his post? An 800 HP level 25 toon was running a LEVEL 18 HEROIC elite quest for favor and got one-shotted by a no-save spell.

Please tell me how this isn't broken.

Bah! A level 27 rogue got one-shot by a level 15 sorc in the Lobster. Arrogant epic char forgot to cast Deathward.

[Monkey-Boy]

Congratulations OP for voiding every argument you might have had with your childish behavior.

To be honest I just started an heroic PL, using for now (reached lvl 6 atm) basically korthos equip plus 2 items I kept from previous PLs. I'm not using a FOTM build, just doing a favored soul-monk drow build I made up in 5 minutes, because I realized I've never played a drow and needed a FavSoul PL. I noticed the champions are hitting harder, but I haven't seen the doom you and other people speak of. Just aggro 10 mobs instead of 20 (or whatever you were used to before). And if you still can't handle it, that's what the LFM panel was made for...

I didn't notice anything ridiculous over the weekend regarding Champions, though seeing some 600ish HP harbor mobs was kinda stupid.

BUT . . . here's where Champions are a dumb idea . . . is they are random. Random is bad in that though they won't necessarily break every encounter, they can potentially break ANY encounter.

Should a level 18 quest give a mob the potential to one-shot an 800 HP level 25 character? No, it shouldn't. Throw in a random "champion" - and we all know how well "random" worked on during Feather's reign as loot/systems czar - and now the encounter is broken.

Random just plain sucks for this reason.

Yes the game was is too easy.

Too much power creep from stuff like monk splashes and over powered paladins and bards made it this way.

Better solution is the nerf what was buffed too much. Or leave things be and give an across the board buff to all mobs in EE

Champions were the wrong way to fix this.

Random sucks. Random has too much potential to break stuff.

Random mucks up carefully crafted encounters.

Mobs more dangerous than bosses is dumb.

Bosses and orange names already were the champions.

Trash mobs one-shotting people is dumb.

Devs knowing the cause of the one-shotting and not coming out as telling the players this was a bug so we don't foam at the mouth at each other is disappointing.

Champion rats is dumb.

Champion boxes and rocks is dumber than champion rats.

leveling is a chore that many just want to get over with.

Challenge us with a real end game.

Challenge us when at cap.

Give us a reason to actually stay at cap other than we're bored of TRing.

Give us this Mythic difficulty you hint at, with a LOOT grind and not an XP grind.

Stop adding dynamics to this game to balance stuff in epics that breaks heroics.



This is the Monkey-Boy manifesto, you all should put it in your signatures.



And most of all . . . with the holidays upon us could some of you people try being a little bit nicer to people who simply disagree with you?

[Zibowskij]

I didn't notice anything ridiculous over the weekend regarding Champions, though seeing some 600ish HP harbor mobs was kinda stupid.

BUT . . . here's where Champions are a dumb idea . . . is they are random. Random is bad in that though they won't necessarily break every encounter, they can potentially break ANY encounter.

Should a level 18 quest give a mob the potential to one-shot an 800 HP level 25 character? No, it shouldn't. Throw in a random "champion" - and we all know how well "random" worked on during Feather's reign as loot/systems czar - and now the encounter is broken.

Random just plain sucks for this reason.

Yes the game was is too easy.

Too much power creep from stuff like monk splashes and over powered paladins and bards made it this way.

Better solution is the nerf what was buffed too much. Or leave things be and give an across the board buff to all mobs in EE

Champions were the wrong way to fix this.

Random sucks. Random has too much potential to break stuff.

Random mucks up carefully crafted encounters.

Mobs more dangerous than bosses is dumb.

Bosses and orange names already were the champions.

Trash mobs one-shotting people is dumb.

Devs knowing the cause of the one-shotting and not coming out as telling the players this was a bug so we don't foam at the mouth at each other is disappointing.

Champion rats is dumb.

Champion boxes and rocks is dumber than champion rats.

leveling is a chore that many just want to get over with.

Challenge us with a real end game.

Challenge us when at cap.

Give us a reason to actually stay at cap other than we're bored of TRing.

Give us this Mythic difficulty you hint at, with a LOOT grind and not an XP grind.

Stop adding dynamics to this game to balance stuff in epics that breaks heroics.



This is the Monkey-Boy manifesto, you all should put it in your signatures.



And most of all . . . with the holidays upon us could some of you people try being a little bit nicer to people who simply disagree with you?

Not sure why my post was deleted, but I'll reply to you. I don't mind randomness, it keeps you a little bit more "on your toes"... And I personally don't agree with the idea that a lower quest cannot pose a threat to a higher level character. I haven't tried the new quests yet, but I'll make sure to give it a shot soon.. and if they will be too though for me I'll seek help with an LFM.
One more helpful thing is tactics.. Using CC, stuns or just use the environment at your advantage can save you more than having thousands of HP.
But I agree with your (and many others) idea of a new difficulty. Something that might not even be worth for xp or loot, but simply fun, challenge and bragging rights...

[Monkey-Boy]

But I agree with your (and many others) idea of a new difficulty. Something that might not even be worth for xp or loot, but simply fun, challenge and bragging rights...

It has to be worth something, it should be loot. Too much of this game is the acquisition of XP as it is.

[porkchorp]

New player here,

Random is awesome
Champions are fun
Getting killed is not a big deal


Looking forward to randomly placed traps someday and random mobs :P

[Inoukchuk]

It has to be worth something, it should be loot. Too much of this game is the acquisition of XP as it is.

If you make it loot then it's counter-productive; it just adds more power creep through loot making the rest of the content even less challenging for the already elite. Find another reward.

[TrinityTurtle]

it doesn't matter what spell it was. it wasn't a new spell ddo just implemented. it wasn't a save or die spell either, it wasn't disintegration or anything....

It does matter. For all I know you're here complaining about something when you could have done something about. Further more, was there only one champion? A champion and a bunch of trash? A couple champions? "I got one shot and won't provide any details about what happened so that I can learn from the experience" does not engender a lot of empathy.

i don't want to get lost in details. as a 5 years old player i always solo heroic elites and i never die and i do that at level.

let alone when level 25 and running 18 heroic elite.

if that happens to me, and i am an experienced player, what will it do to newbies? at level? with lower hp? which i already answered with my necro 1 flagging post above. they will keep dying then they will feel gimped.

Ah, I see. You want the game to be so easy that you don't actually have a risk of dying. Dre and I got our rears kicked by champions. Hard. We sat down together, figured out what we did wrong, and kicked them back. And stopped dying at all levels. It just took a little effort on our part, and now we're back to steamrolling the mobs.

imagine you are a new player, you have no packs, 28 points build and you just have nothing and you keep dying. would you go buy **** from ddostore as if you are going to continue playing this game very non newbie friendly?

I Don't have to, I play in a static 28 point no gear semi-permadeath group on Wayfinder. And we're still stomping things. Because we pay attention to the dungeon, we watch for the crowns, and we formulate strategies to deal with the champions. And we have a great time doing it. And when I was actually new, I died all the time. And every time I did, I learned something new, that eventually led me to the point when I stopped dying.

New players won't know the difference. THey'll come and ask vets 'how do I get around this'. Already am seeing it in advice channels, my help channel, and general channels across the board.

[Chaimberland]

Random is awesome
Champions are fun
Getting killed is not a big deal

I think this statement really puts things into perspective. New players are fine with champions. It's just a few vets that are whining.

[Monkey-Boy]

If you make it loot then it's counter-productive; it just adds more power creep through loot making the rest of the content even less challenging for the already elite. Find another reward.

What else is there besides XP and loot?

Anyone saying "fun" is getting whacked in the head with a spade-shovel.

[Monkey-Boy]

I think this statement really puts things into perspective. New players are fine with champions. It's just a few vets that are whining.

ONE new player doesn't speak for all new players.

[Tscheuss]

ONE new player doesn't speak for all new players.

Changes don't affect newbies as changes. Everything is new to them, anyway. It is only (some) vets agonizing over changes. Champions are not game-breaking. They just make players stop and think before attacking (or they kill those who rush blindly into battle).

[Zibowskij]

What else is there besides XP and loot?

Anyone saying "fun" is getting whacked in the head with a spade-shovel.

Why do you NEED something in return? There are already other difficulty, so you could still play them. And as someone else said spiraling down with power creep isn't the solution. I think having a "nightmare" kind of difficulty that might even be a once-and-done kinda thing, just to have fun, might be a good idea. Not every difficulty/quest must be farmed (for xp or loot). It would probably be even more meaningful than having speed runs and time records for completion...

[Flavilandile]

Did you even read his post? An 800 HP level 25 toon was running a LEVEL 18 HEROIC elite quest for favor and got one-shotted by a no-save spell.

Please tell me how this isn't broken.

I don't see any issue with that.

Maybe it comes from the fact that I've been playing Rolemaster for over 30 years.
With a lucky open ended roll on a critical a LVL 1 Orc can kill a LVL 50 Character, no save, you're dead.

[Livmo]

New player here,

Random is awesome
Champions are fun
Getting killed is not a big deal


Looking forward to randomly placed traps someday and random mobs :P

I've learned where most the trap boxes and traps are in the game. This would be fun and spice things up a bit!

Random traps please and TY!

[AlcoArgo]

as a level 25 i ran the last f2p quest from that new pack, just heroic elite for favor, right?

gathered 15 monsters, cleave, cleave... all dead. no sweat.

then one caster cast one spell and bam! i was dead. i was like... really? REALLY?

i will say this: awesome job ddo.

try a bit harder and you can kill this game. just a little bit harder.

i can't even imagine epic elite champions...

I don't need to imagine EE champions, I have faced them and they are TOUGH... as they should be. If you solo WGU EE now you have EARNED it. It is great that Elite means something again - at least a little bit.

Quests are less boring and predictable now. This is a good thing. What is the fun and challenge in just gathering mobs and then cleaving when you have enough? Try using some tactics instead of whining that the game is too hard for you when playing Elite difficulty.

Learn. Adapt. Get better.

[AlcoArgo]

Did you even read his post? An 800 HP level 25 toon was running a LEVEL 18 HEROIC elite quest for favor and got one-shotted by a no-save spell.

Please tell me how this isn't broken.

Sometimes it is not the arrow but the archer who is at fault.

If you are lvl 25 and getting 1 shotted in a lvl 18 quest - even with an astounding 800 HP - then there is something wrong with you. Your build sucks or your playstyle sucks or you forgot to put DW on or something else I didn't mention. No PRR? No MRR? Get some and try again.

You may have even rolled a 1. Stuff happens. Deal with it or play on Normal difficulty until you get better.