Please post your Stealthy builds for the Stealth Guide

[MalkavianX]

Sorry it took a while but here it is, sort of. Be gentle, she is still a work in progress. Any helpful hints on how to improve her sneakiness can be posted here. Any help on how to improve her ranged pew-pew-edness can be pm'd to me.

13 Rogue/6 Ranger/1 Artificer

Base stats
STR 10
DEX 18 + all level ups (love me that dex!)
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 9
CHA 8

I think... I know she's got +4 tomes in all her stats though. I think the final stats (at lvl 24) with her sub par gear are something like:

STR 24
DEX 34
CON 28
INT 31
WIS 19
CHA 14

Feats
Dodge (been meaning to replace it with something useful, maybe Quick Draw, if I ever get around to it)
Greater Two Weapon Fighting (lvl 6 ranger gives you the first 2 for free.)
Improved Critical: Ranged
Improved Precise Shot
Least Dragonmark of Shadow (8 free uses of invisibility and 4 displacement, there's some shadow walk in there too but I rarely use it)
Mobility (again, I should really replace it, but.... lazy.)
Point Blank Shot
For Epic Feats I took Combat Archery and Improved Sneak Attack.

Enhancements
(the important ones anyways )

• Improved Traps: (3 ranks) +3 to the save DC's of Alchemical Trap Attacks and Magical Traps. Elemental Traps that you place now have a DC equal to 100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%.
• Leg Shot: Slows critters by 50%. This is important because of the follow up enhancement from the DWS tree...
• Sniper Shot: Ranged Att with +2[w], +4 to hit, +2 crit range, and +2 crit multiplier! Wait, there's more... On damage the target is rendered vulnerable to sneak attacks for 4 seconds. Usually enough for a couple more volleys form the repeater.
• Faster Sneaking
  For the gods sake, do not even think about a stealth build without this enhancement! Unless of course you're a sick twisted masochist. Then, by all means, do without.

Also, each core ability from DWS adds 5 meters to PBS, and the first core in Mech gives you another 5. PBS is 15m plus the 5 from Mech, plus the 15 from DWS gives you an additional +1[w] within 35m. (the +1[w] is from PBS) If the critters survive the Sniper Shot and get through any laid traps, just bluff and pew pew. Critters rarely get within melee range.

Now, that being said, back to the topic at hand. Stealth.

Her Hide is 69 and MS is 61 (with gear I think, sadly low, but I make due) but she's got some more tricks to beef up her Hide skill. I believe it was already mentioned in here somewhere that The Camouflage spell adds a +10 circumstance bonus to Hide. But there's a key point of invisibility that I'm not sure has been mentioned.

"Invisibility is effectively an immunity from Spot checks, provided that the invisible player is greater than 2 meters. An Invisibility spell makes you visually undetectable and therefore completely replaces Hide, unless enemies use True Seeing or See Invisibility effects."

And under the Hide skill description:

"It is now possible to escape from an enemy's sight by first putting sufficient distance from an enemy (reducing their ability to hear you), breaking the line-of-sight between the player and the enemy, and then returning to stealth. An enemy will search for you for a time and then stop."

What does this mean? Well, in theory, if you're spotted by a critter, all you have to do is break line of sight and then drop into stealth mode. Or, cast/scroll/Dmark invisibility and stop moving. I haven't fully tested it yet if a critter can still "spot" you via listening if you don't move after invisi-fying yourself. Logic says no, but DDO is a land of fantasy where logic can go play in space with the Vulcans.

One more tip I always found useful was:

"Add more points to Jump if you sneak regularly as you have a -20 penalty while sneaking. While a score of 40 or more gives no advantages to any character while not stealthed, the extra points make the difference while sneaking. Enhancements and Competence bonus items can aid here."

Also, most people that think of Sneak just think about Hide and Move Silently. As stated above, Jump is also a valuable stalth skill. Wall of baddies? Stealth jump over them. If you jump skill is 30-ish and you're sneaking, chance are your feet will smack the critter in the head on the way over it. Spot is also super important. Honest. Why would I lie? Sure, you can sneak along with your 100+ Hide/MS skills, but what happens if you fail to spot that Drow assassin hiding right in front of you? Fyi, bumping into critters effectively renders your sneaking borked.

Another build that I found super fun that was made popular by Ghoste was the 18 wizard/2 rogue build. Wraithform adds +20 to MS! I might be remembering incorrectly too, but I recall Invisibility adding +20 to hide back in the day.

TL;DR?

• Wear light armor or no armor. Medium and Heavy Armor increase your Armor Check Penalty, reducing your effectiveness in stealth and Jump.
• Invisibility is immunity to Spot (as long as you stay more than 2m (roughly the height of a human character) away from the critters.), but not Listen! Just because they can't see you doesn't mean they can't hear you!
• Add Points to Jump!
• Never, ever, EVER use a stealth build without the Faster Sneaking enhancements.

P.S. I just thought I'd add that this build works well with a great crossbow as well. Take the TF great crossbow for example. Damage: 3.50[2d8]+9 18-20/x2. In point blank range 4.50[2d8]+9 18-20/x2. Sniper Shot in pbr 6.50[2d8]+9 16-20/x4. Add in the 13d6 sneak attack damage this build does and.... Kur-Thunk! Splat. Yay!

[Saekee]

Sorry it took a while but here it is, sort of. Be gentle, she is still a work in progress. Any helpful hints on how to improve her sneakiness can be posted here. Any help on how to improve her ranged pew-pew-edness can be pm'd to me.

13 Rogue/6 Ranger/1 Artificer

Base stats
STR 10
DEX 18 + all level ups (love me that dex!)
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 9
CHA 8

I think... I know she's got +4 tomes in all her stats though. I think the final stats (at lvl 24) with her sub par gear are something like:

STR 24
DEX 34
CON 28
INT 31
WIS 19
CHA 14

Feats
Dodge (been meaning to replace it with something useful, maybe Quick Draw, if I ever get around to it)
Greater Two Weapon Fighting (lvl 6 ranger gives you the first 2 for free.)
Improved Critical: Ranged
Improved Precise Shot
Least Dragonmark of Shadow (8 free uses of invisibility and 4 displacement, there's some shadow walk in there too but I rarely use it)
Mobility (again, I should really replace it, but.... lazy.)
Point Blank Shot
For Epic Feats I took Combat Archery and Improved Sneak Attack.

Enhancements
(the important ones anyways )

• Improved Traps: (3 ranks) +3 to the save DC's of Alchemical Trap Attacks and Magical Traps. Elemental Traps that you place now have a DC equal to 100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%.
• Leg Shot: Slows critters by 50%. This is important because of the follow up enhancement from the DWS tree...
• Sniper Shot: Ranged Att with +2[w], +4 to hit, +2 crit range, and +2 crit multiplier! Wait, there's more... On damage the target is rendered vulnerable to sneak attacks for 4 seconds. Usually enough for a couple more volleys form the repeater.
• Faster Sneaking
  For the gods sake, do not even think about a stealth build without this enhancement! Unless of course you're a sick twisted masochist. Then, by all means, do without.

Also, each core ability from DWS adds 5 meters to PBS, and the first core in Mech gives you another 5. PBS is 15m plus the 5 from Mech, plus the 15 from DWS gives you an additional +1[w] within 35m. (the +1[w] is from PBS) If the critters survive the Sniper Shot and get through any laid traps, just bluff and pew pew. Critters rarely get within melee range.

Now, that being said, back to the topic at hand. Stealth.

Her Hide is 69 and MS is 61 (with gear I think, sadly low, but I make due) but she's got some more tricks to beef up her Hide skill. I believe it was already mentioned in here somewhere that The Camouflage spell adds a +10 circumstance bonus to Hide. But there's a key point of invisibility that I'm not sure has been mentioned.

"Invisibility is effectively an immunity from Spot checks, provided that the invisible player is greater than 2 meters. An Invisibility spell makes you visually undetectable and therefore completely replaces Hide, unless enemies use True Seeing or See Invisibility effects."

And under the Hide skill description:

"It is now possible to escape from an enemy's sight by first putting sufficient distance from an enemy (reducing their ability to hear you), breaking the line-of-sight between the player and the enemy, and then returning to stealth. An enemy will search for you for a time and then stop."

What does this mean? Well, in theory, if you're spotted by a critter, all you have to do is break line of sight and then drop into stealth mode. Or, cast/scroll/Dmark invisibility and stop moving. I haven't fully tested it yet if a critter can still "spot" you via listening if you don't move after invisi-fying yourself. Logic says no, but DDO is a land of fantasy where logic can go play in space with the Vulcans.

One more tip I always found useful was:

"Add more points to Jump if you sneak regularly as you have a -20 penalty while sneaking. While a score of 40 or more gives no advantages to any character while not stealthed, the extra points make the difference while sneaking. Enhancements and Competence bonus items can aid here."

Also, most people that think of Sneak just think about Hide and Move Silently. As stated above, Jump is also a valuable stalth skill. Wall of baddies? Stealth jump over them. If you jump skill is 30-ish and you're sneaking, chance are your feet will smack the critter in the head on the way over it. Spot is also super important. Honest. Why would I lie? Sure, you can sneak along with your 100+ Hide/MS skills, but what happens if you fail to spot that Drow assassin hiding right in front of you? Fyi, bumping into critters effectively renders your sneaking borked.

Another build that I found super fun that was made popular by Ghoste was the 18 wizard/2 rogue build. Wraithform adds +20 to MS! I might be remembering incorrectly too, but I recall Invisibility adding +20 to hide back in the day.

TL;DR?

• Wear light armor or no armor. Medium and Heavy Armor increase your Armor Check Penalty, reducing your effectiveness in stealth and Jump.
• Invisibility is immunity to Spot (as long as you stay more than 2m (roughly the height of a human character) away from the critters.), but not Listen! Just because they can't see you doesn't mean they can't hear you!
• Add Points to Jump!
• Never, ever, EVER use a stealth build without the Faster Sneaking enhancements.

P.S. I just thought I'd add that this build works well with a great crossbow as well. Take the TF great crossbow for example. Damage: 3.50[2d8]+9 18-20/x2. In point blank range 4.50[2d8]+9 18-20/x2. Sniper Shot in pbr 6.50[2d8]+9 16-20/x4. Add in the 13d6 sneak attack damage this build does and.... Kur-Thunk! Splat. Yay!

Thx Mal--all good points too, especially about camouflage and jump/invisi. Would you consider 4 arti for endless fusilage and a boost to scroll usage?
I think the wraith form/rogue combo is very solid--Psychoosi uses it for his shuriken build. the move silently is probably more important than hide due to people being able to get invisible via scrolls, enhancements, potions, and clickies--but moving silently is always the tricky one.
With champions and some mobs having true seeing, invisibility does not completely replace Hide, of course, so invisibility should be used carefully now.
Don't forget shadow dodge for +6 Dex! My toon is sitting on 48 dex at level 18 from tenser's, windstance, shadow dodge, +6 gear, ship buff, some enhancements, level-ups and a +3 tome, but the key in this is really the shadow dodge toggle.

[Saekee]

I don't use Stun Fist at the moment (Stunning Blow) but Stunning fist is better for my prefered 12 monk/4 Rog/4 Pally split and I sorely miss it.

I tried Trip as well, but Trip has too long an animation and the animation makes tripping moving targets a bit wonky.

Stunning Fist is fast, reliable, effective, and has a short animation and cool-down. It allows helpless damage and sneak damage plus when coupled with Sense Weakness makes a fast kill, so i really like it.

When cornering and killing a single alert enemy what i don't want to happen is for the mob to back up to try to range me or in some other way move from behind the box or wall I pulled them to, thereby alerting the area.

I want them to die in place quickly and silently so I can get back in stealth like I should be.

Ninja Kill! <poof> (I'm gone)

Totally agree--makes a great case for stun, especially now with stunning fist being one of the better ways to take out champions.

[Livmo]

Would you consider 4 arti for endless fusilage and a boost to scroll usage?

Endless Fuselodge Tactics

You can stack SLAs and such and then use Endless Fuselodge. For example,

Human Action Boost to Hit + Arty Action Boost to Damage + Stormrage + Endless Fuselodge + Boulder Toss.

There are allot of combinations that you can make with Endless and Enhacements, EDs, feats, etc. You can use terrain and stealth to get the early drop on the enemy. By the time you're done shootin' they're all down.


0-[=======>


Some side sizzle.


You can craft Ranged Alacrity 10% on the rune arm Hand of Tombs. Goes nice with a Thuderforgered Xbow. Hand of Tombs is a great Disruption weapon and I use it frequently in Haunted Halls and Thuderholm. You can craft on Toven's Hammer as well. Keep in mind when using the Cannith Crafting Planner that rune arms are considered Trinkets. There is allot you can do with rune arms as a robber-barron

However, my Quil-Needle has 20% Ranged Alacrity on it. I still prefer my fully upgraded Needle to my T2 Thunder Forged xbow. I don't have a T3 (just shy) yet, but maybe. You can also craft some really great combinations of uber on an Alchemical Crossbow (i.e. Seeker +10 at Level 12) in House Cannith.

[Qezuzu]

Yes hi.

As said in the PM, the build I use is just pure 20 rogue (the other build I'm leveling up right now is a 12rog/4ftr/4barb, cleave-spamming Acrobat, but it functions the same when it comes to stealth minus Assassinate.) Most builds with Monk/Ranger/Bard/Rogue can use stealth (so a lot of builds out there, it's a shame not many people do.) There are niceties like the Shadar-ki stuff, but most of the stuff is stuff anyone can use (Flaming Sphere scrolls, projectile collisions, invis scrolls, etc.)

You have most of the techniques I use already. My only suggestions would be:
-Separate Flaming Sphere from Living Lures(Diverting Enemies)/Summoned Creatures(clickies, potions, scrolls,) make it its own entry because it's so wildly more effective than normal summons

-Shadowscale Robes (well any armor, but robes for the quick swap) give Shadow Phase clickies, which functions as greater invisibility basically. After I learned that it allows you to open doors/pull levers without being noticed, I made five of the robes (15 charges) and tested it out. I found it to be almost game-breakingly potent for stealth play, for example I was able to complete EE Feast or Famine with only the four required kills. Doors/levers have been a bane of stealth for years, but this solves the problem. The only drawback is, if you do not have normal invis active, you'll get spotted when casting Shadow Phase (there seems to be a split second where you exit sneak mode, but are not yet invisible,) and pulling levers will get rid of normal invis so you have to cast invis again after pulling lever, but while still Shadow Phased. Additionally, you can summon Flaming Sphere while Shadow Phased, so again it's so good. I guess another drawback is that it's ML26 so it's not going to be useful in heroic content, and with u24 and the fact that any mob can be a champion and any champion will often have true seeing, this is a small nerf to it, but nothing major considering only a handful of mobs per quest will be TS champs. Beyond that, this allows you to easily sneak through any quest that doesn't have spiders, drow/other see invis mobs, or 'kill everything to open door.'

[Saekee]

Yes hi.

As said in the PM, the build I use is just pure 20 rogue (the other build I'm leveling up right now is a 12rog/4ftr/4barb, cleave-spamming Acrobat, but it functions the same when it comes to stealth minus Assassinate.) Most builds with Monk/Ranger/Bard/Rogue can use stealth (so a lot of builds out there, it's a shame not many people do.) There are niceties like the Shadar-ki stuff, but most of the stuff is stuff anyone can use (Flaming Sphere scrolls, projectile collisions, invis scrolls, etc.)

You have most of the techniques I use already. My only suggestions would be:
-Separate Flaming Sphere from Living Lures(Diverting Enemies)/Summoned Creatures(clickies, potions, scrolls,) make it its own entry because it's so wildly more effective than normal summons

-Shadowscale Robes (well any armor, but robes for the quick swap) give Shadow Phase clickies, which functions as greater invisibility basically. After I learned that it allows you to open doors/pull levers without being noticed, I made five of the robes (15 charges) and tested it out. I found it to be almost game-breakingly potent for stealth play, for example I was able to complete EE Feast or Famine with only the four required kills. Doors/levers have been a bane of stealth for years, but this solves the problem. The only drawback is, if you do not have normal invis active, you'll get spotted when casting Shadow Phase (there seems to be a split second where you exit sneak mode, but are not yet invisible,) and pulling levers will get rid of normal invis so you have to cast invis again after pulling lever, but while still Shadow Phased. Additionally, you can summon Flaming Sphere while Shadow Phased, so again it's so good. I guess another drawback is that it's ML26 so it's not going to be useful in heroic content, and with u24 and the fact that any mob can be a champion and any champion will often have true seeing, this is a small nerf to it, but nothing major considering only a handful of mobs per quest will be TS champs. Beyond that, this allows you to easily sneak through any quest that doesn't have spiders, drow/other see invis mobs, or 'kill everything to open door.'

Thanks and excellent suggestions! I plan to post a special thread on Flaming Sphere scrolls with the hope that others can add to it.
We will eventually update the guide as you suggest--move flaming sphere scrolls and add shadowscale.

[Tobril]

Even though it's been mentioned, I didn't see anyone link to the
stealth materiel provided by Ghoste:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...d-A-Philosophy


Something along the lines of a bard/rogue (maybe a pinch of fighter too)
could perform quite well from a stealth perspective and have a lot of
DPS when stealth isn't an option or when things don't go exactly as planned.

[Saekee]

Even though it's been mentioned, I didn't see anyone link to the
stealth materiel provided by Ghoste:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...d-A-Philosophy


Something along the lines of a bard/rogue (maybe a pinch of fighter too)
could perform quite well from a stealth perspective and have a lot of
DPS when stealth isn't an option or when things don't go exactly as planned.

Thanks Tobril! We have his video page linked too! This is great to have--I had forgotten about this thread he created.

[Livmo]

I want to add the Listen skill to the wall of knowledge. An earlier post mentions the skill, but felt it should stand out a bit more. From DDO Wiki:

Description

The Listen skill enables you to detect sneaking enemies. Normally, sneaking enemies are invisible until they attack or take a similar offensive action. The Listen check is opposed to the enemies' Move Silently check. If your result is higher, you can see the sneaking enemy as a transparent, gray shape with small, red bursts occurring where their feet would be.

Class Skill for a Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Monk, Ranger, Rogue

I use this skill allot. I went and got a fresh screen shot for this post. In the shot under the arc of my rune arm charge is the outline of a baddie. There are actually 2 there. I don't know if you can see the red circles around their feet or not.

Please note I'm on a pure arty and I'm not invised. I ran/stopped and got the drop. They did not know I was there. My rune arm is only charging, because I used Alt + z to turn off the UI for the screenie. They did not know what hit them and were dead. No chance for them to respond. I used my light Alchemical xbow to dispatch them. Listen is a great skill for stealth maneuvers.

[psykopeta]

iirc from doing litany (has been a while tho, maybe 2-3 months lol) when invis, even if not moving, mobs can hear you if don't use MS

also if they see you, just kill whoever is on you (archers will fire arrows, doesn't matter) then invis, block so they don't damage you (?) and in few secs they will stop attacking u

[Saekee]

I want to add the Listen skill to the wall of knowledge. An earlier post mentions the skill, but felt it should stand out a bit more. From DDO Wiki:

Description

The Listen skill enables you to detect sneaking enemies. Normally, sneaking enemies are invisible until they attack or take a similar offensive action. The Listen check is opposed to the enemies' Move Silently check. If your result is higher, you can see the sneaking enemy as a transparent, gray shape with small, red bursts occurring where their feet would be.

Class Skill for a Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Monk, Ranger, Rogue

I use this skill allot. I went and got a fresh screen shot for this post. In the shot under the arc of my rune arm charge is the outline of a baddie. There are actually 2 there. I don't know if you can see the red circles around their feet or not.

Please note I'm on a pure arty and I'm not invised. I ran/stopped and got the drop. They did not know I was there. My rune arm is only charging, because I used Alt + z to turn off the UI for the screenie. They did not know what hit them and were dead. No chance for them to respond. I used my light Alchemical xbow to dispatch them. Listen is a great skill for stealth maneuvers.

Hi Livmo, thanks for the input! This is an excellent point. I will need to run some tests of my own. Typically I throw on my highest SPOT item when in stealth mode, hoping to see traps and hidden creatures. However, it looks like the LISTEN skill may function better. For players, it is more often the MS skill that fails, so this is probably true for mobs as well!

iirc from doing litany (has been a while tho, maybe 2-3 months lol) when invis, even if not moving, mobs can hear you if don't use MS

also if they see you, just kill whoever is on you (archers will fire arrows, doesn't matter) then invis, block so they don't damage you (?) and in few secs they will stop attacking u

hi psykopeta, are you referring to the drop-down area when one waits for the gate to open amidst spawning undead? I often find that hiding there does not work well unless perfectly positioned.

The blocking idea is good if it is effective; once damaged, stealth breaks.

[psykopeta]

hi psykopeta, are you referring to the drop-down area when one waits for the gate to open amidst spawning undead? I often find that hiding there does not work well unless perfectly positioned.

The blocking idea is good if it is effective; once damaged, stealth breaks.

that's what i meant, in order it was:

- pull lever
- kill first 2 skeles (melee ones)
- invis + block (displacement on) after 2-3 arrows the archers will stop firing
- sneak

if not sneaking, skeles will see you (in fact they should see you always due to... heat sense? dunno how it is called)
if not blocking, archers won't lose aggro, and mobs will attack you

[Saekee]

that's what i meant, in order it was:

- pull lever
- kill first 2 skeles (melee ones)
- invis + block (displacement on) after 2-3 arrows the archers will stop firing
- sneak

if not sneaking, skeles will see you (in fact they should see you always due to... heat sense? dunno how it is called)
if not blocking, archers won't lose aggro, and mobs will attack you

I haven't worked with blocking while stealthed. Will need to explore. I know that when you are damaged it breaks stealth--usually my toon is invisible but suddenly I am running and thumping along.
The blocking might prevent damage (if it is low) and also eventually divert the aggro as you say. Not sure if it is specific to Litany. Have you done this elsewhere?