Monster Champion Feedback

[Qhualor]

It's not hard you just have to run level 26 EE quests with a character that doesn't have high PRR so you can see the actual damage #s rather than the damage #s after PRR damage reduction. WGU, Breaking the ranks, Vol (esp marut optional), GOP.

I do run those quests on EE and until now while doing my barb lives, ive always had low PRR. ive stated this several times now and I think its funny that every response is that I need to run high level EE quests with low PRR to see for myself that getting one shot by Champions is for real. as if that's the only places and difficulty people are reporting these one shot problems. as if PRR is the only way to reduce damage from Champions.

[slarden]

I would probably add some more buffs actually.

They should allow mobs that ignore fortification completely to also ignore PRR/MRR completely rather than making one form of defense more important than all others. If people are ok with the one-shotting this would definitely be something they would like.

[slarden]

I do run those quests on EE and until now while doing my barb lives, ive always had low PRR. ive stated this several times now and I think its funny that every response is that I need to run high level EE quests with low PRR to see for myself that getting one shot by Champions is for real. as if that's the only places and difficulty people are reporting these one shot problems. as if PRR is the only way to reduce damage from Champions.

That is the only place I see high damage, although I would expect it could also exist in some heroics.

[Sehenry03]

It's not hard you just have to run level 26 EE quests with a character that doesn't have high PRR so you can see the actual damage #s rather than the damage #s after PRR damage reduction. WGU, Breaking the ranks, Vol (esp marut optional), GOP.

This is the problem I have. I just ran all the Orchard quests except MoD on EE and nothing was especially bad. And this was on a 24 Druid who was healing the group. I had plenty of aggro and got hit a lot and died a few times but not due to "1 shotting".

Also why would I not want to run with high PRR? Every class in the game can get 85+ with little effort in PRR/MRR except maybe monks and I just don't play them to know. My 14 Sorc has a 80 PRR right now. And that is done with a crafting shard and a planesforged docent with a blue slot.

[Rys]

They should allow mobs that ignore fortification completely to also ignore PRR/MRR completely rather than making one form of defense more important than all others. If people are ok with the one-shotting this would definitely be something they would like.

I would support this

[psykopeta]

Those are 3 things I would like to see changed.
1. Personally I don't believe champions should be in heroic content.

2. We already have 4 levels of difficulty .. why do we have dungeon scaling.is it for the EE solo speed records?.
EE records are more meaningful without Dungeon Scaling.

3. If people want to try harder that at level difficulty all the power to them..
The only nuance that should be addressed is "power levelling" and XP.
..where a high level player has a sublevel player in party.. level 10 player in a level 8 quest brings in a level 3 player..

it exists in heroic quests, but they got rid of it on epic, the difference between highest player lvl and lowest lvl player, reduces(or last time i checkec it was doing so) the xp of the last one in:

- 3 lvls 25%
- 4 lvls 75%
- 5 lvls 99%
- 6 lvls 100%

as i said, that existed in epics too, but after lots of players complaining, they removed it from epics, same thing happened with the minimum lvl to step in a quest, it exists in heroics, but got rid of it in epics cause ppl complaining that if they want to go (and pike) as a lvl 20 toon in a lvl 31 quest while their fruns rush it, they should be able to do so

related to the thread:
champions are **** now, i'm more scared of lag/freezing and being banged by kobolds or whatever non champ mob, that doing belly at lvl ( i.e. 24 so you get frags and chests, which use to be underground btw) which btw has one of the nicests fake difficulty situations, like... the hunter quest in wheloon, the end fight triggers automatically orange DA

[slarden]

This is the problem I have. I just ran all the Orchard quests except MoD on EE and nothing was especially bad. And this was on a 24 Druid who was healing the group. I had plenty of aggro and got hit a lot and died a few times but not due to "1 shotting".

Also why would I not want to run with high PRR? Every class in the game can get 85+ with little effort in PRR/MRR except maybe monks and I just don't play them to know. My 14 Sorc has a 80 PRR right now. And that is done with a crafting shard and a planesforged docent with a blue slot.

I agree you would want to run with high PRR/MRR - it's the current easy button in the game which is exactly why there should be a debuff to get around MRR/PRR rather than just fortification.

Instead of complete fort bypass which results in high damage before DR - there should be a few possible debuffs 100% fortification reduction, 100 PRR reduction and 80MRR reduction. There needs to be more balance in the champion debuffs so it doesn't over-reward one play style.

[slarden]

it exists in heroic quests, but they got rid of it on epic, the difference between highest player lvl and lowest lvl player, reduces(or last time i checkec it was doing so) the xp of the last one in:

- 3 lvls 25%
- 4 lvls 75%
- 5 lvls 99%
- 6 lvls 100%

as i said, that existed in epics too, but after lots of players complaining, they removed it from epics, same thing happened with the minimum lvl to step in a quest, it exists in heroics, but got rid of it in epics cause ppl complaining that if they want to go (and pike) as a lvl 20 toon in a lvl 31 quest while their fruns rush it, they should be able to do so

related to the thread:
champions are **** now, i'm more scared of lag/freezing and being banged by kobolds or whatever non champ mob, that doing belly at lvl ( i.e. 24 so you get frags and chests, which use to be underground btw) which btw has one of the nicests fake difficulty situations, like... the hunter quest in wheloon, the end fight triggers automatically orange DA

The main reason why it made sense for epics is that it ED is such a significant part of epic-level power and it makes it easier to fill end-game raids.

I hope we don't see the same change in heroic content.

[Sehenry03]

I agree you would want to run with high PRR/MRR - it's the current easy button in the game which is exactly why there should be a debuff to get around MRR/PRR rather than just fortification.

Instead of complete fort bypass which results in high damage before DR - there should be a few possible debuffs 100% fortification reduction, 100 PRR reduction and 80MRR reduction. There needs to be more balance in the champion debuffs so it doesn't over-reward one play style.

Oh I completely agree with you on this. Until then though it is easy to build PRR/MRR for everyone except monks...and maybe monks I just don't know. 1 Feat for sorcs/wizzies/FvS/etc and you have an instant 60+ PRR.

Yeah a different debuff each time that affects Fort/PRR/MRR all at different times would be great. I kinda get the feeling that DDO wants us to focus on PRR though and is kinda moving us that way. Personally I don't mind though and I am actually happy for it. I HATED it when evasion was the path we had to go and evasion was on 90%+ of every build out there and I just laugh now when evasion builds complain they aren't the uber defense anymore =). Now they are moving evasion more to the middle of the pack and giving Heavy Armor users a round of being uber finally.

[slarden]

Oh I completely agree with you on this. Until then though it is easy to build PRR/MRR for everyone except monks...and maybe monks I just don't know. 1 Feat for sorcs/wizzies/FvS/etc and you have an instant 60+ PRR.

Yeah a different debuff each time that affects Fort/PRR/MRR all at different times would be great. I kinda get the feeling that DDO wants us to focus on PRR though and is kinda moving us that way. Personally I don't mind though and I am actually happy for it. I HATED it when evasion was the path we had to go and evasion was on 90%+ of every build out there and I just laugh now when evasion builds complain they aren't the uber defense anymore =). Now they are moving evasion more to the middle of the pack and giving Heavy Armor users a round of being uber finally.

The one-feat argument has been stated many times on these forums but I don't agree with it. It doesn't work that way for rogues and fleshy casters can't take heavy armor proficiency without first taking medium and light armor proficiency. The EK tree is a very heavy investment for medium armor proficiency if you are playing a casting wiz/sorc.

It is one feat for fvs and barbarians and of course warforged. Not all races can take the -15% arcane spell failure from the first tier of their racial tree to reduce arcane spell failure.

I agree - PRR/MRR is the new evasion - but on steroids compared to how evasion used to be. Evasion required a high reflex to be effective and 5% of the time it completely failed even if you managed a no-fail save. I don't recall ever being one-hit without evasion except by a few traps which were predictable and avoidable.

I have many alts and a wide variety of builds - I don't really favor one build choice over the other. I just think the champion system shouldn 't favor one build style over another.

[Oxarhamar]

So as the title states ran EE Stormhorns for the saga, ran into quite a good number of Champions (did not keep a tally) but, not a single Remnant from the entire chain chest drop or floor drop.

Random Champions + Random chance of rewards = crapshoot.

Hate it.

[Braegan]

So as the title states ran EE Stormhorns for the saga, ran into quite a good number of Champions (did not keep a tally) but, not a single Remnant from the entire chain chest drop or floor drop.

Random Champions + Random chance of rewards = crapshoot.

Hate it.

That's odd. Last night I ran Enecro chain once on EH and repeated Vol on EE. Wound up with over 30 remnants from chest and floor drops.

[Oxarhamar]

That's odd. Last night I ran Enecro chain once on EH and repeated Vol on EE. Wound up with over 30 remnants from chest and floor drops.

Yep I've had mixed luck.

From running the the full EE saga list this life within level limits for remnants I've acquired 71 total. Got most from Wheloon & GH but crud from most other quests. None from Stormhorns.


My new annoyance is hitting "Q" every so often to check for remnants that many have floor dropped

[Braegan]

Yep I've had mixed luck.

From running the the full EE saga list this life within level limits for remnants I've acquired 71 total. Got most from Wheloon & GH but crud from most other quests. None from Stormhorns.


My new annoyance is hitting "Q" every so often to check for remnants that many have floor dropped

Yeah, it has been some time since I've had to look on the ground for things mobs would drop. Can't say I am excited over its return.

[Oxarhamar]

Yeah, it has been some time since I've had to look on the ground for things mobs would drop. Can't say I am excited over its return.

I am glad they are not dropped in Tbags since there are already so many Tbag drops but, the Remnants are small and flat quiet difficult to see without using auto target unless your camera view is angled a bit downward.

I like that they are yellowish but, they could have been yellowish Tbags. That would have really stood out.

Still best option is auto gathered like Epic scrolls, fragments of Twelve Tokens, chests in Cannith Challenges, and Treasure maps, coins, & gems from Crystal Cove.

[MangLord]

The other day I ran a couple quests from the Sentinels chain on EH to finish out my 3Barrel saga, and I was surprised to see not one fragment drop in either Tide Turns or Black Loch. There were plenty of champions, but no fragments. Those quests are light on orange names, so I couldn't gauge bad luck based on that. I was level 23 running level 21 quests. I didn't think I was overleveling it enough to negate my chances for fragment drops. Just really bad luck?

The only other time I've had that happen is overleveling heroic quests for favor.

Is there a cutoff point at epic levels where, if you're x levels over the quest, fragments don't drop? I was of the understanding that epic level content didn't have the overlevel penalties that heroic content does.

[Oxarhamar]

The other day I ran a couple quests from the Sentinels chain on EH to finish out my 3Barrel saga, and I was surprised to see not one fragment drop in either Tide Turns or Black Loch. There were plenty of champions, but no fragments. Those quests are light on orange names, so I couldn't gauge bad luck based on that. I was level 23 running level 21 quests. I didn't think I was overleveling it enough to negate my chances for fragment drops. Just really bad luck?

The only other time I've had that happen is overleveling heroic quests for favor.

Is there a cutoff point at epic levels where, if you're x levels over the quest, fragments don't drop? I was of the understanding that epic level content didn't have the overlevel penalties that heroic content does.

The over level for XP & Streak work differently in Epics than Heriocs but, Overlevel for Champions is the same in both settings.


Lvl 21 EH =LVL22 Looks like you were too high at 23.

[Zasral]

I do run those quests on EE and until now while doing my barb lives, ive always had low PRR. ive stated this several times now and I think its funny that every response is that I need to run high level EE quests with low PRR to see for myself that getting one shot by Champions is for real. as if that's the only places and difficulty people are reporting these one shot problems. as if PRR is the only way to reduce damage from Champions.

In rusted blades last night I was one shot by a champ for 1300. I have 135 prr! I did a lot of ee's last night probably around 20, and it only happenend the one time. That one time was enough to make me want to throw my mouse against the wall.

[Sehenry03]

In rusted blades last night I was one shot by a champ for 1300. I have 135 prr! I did a lot of ee's last night probably around 20, and it only happenend the one time. That one time was enough to make me want to throw my mouse against the wall.

So you did 20 EE quests...fought maybe 2k monsters? Played for around 8 hours? And in nthe whole time you were 1 shot...ONE time? And you wanted to throw the mouse against the wall. Have you considered anger management?

[Rys]

So you did 20 EE quests...fought maybe 2k monsters? Played for around 8 hours? And in nthe whole time you were 1 shot...ONE time? And you wanted to throw the mouse against the wall. Have you considered anger management?

So what? Broken mechanics are broken and definitely not fun, if you spend large amount of time and consumables and then get randomly smashed like this. Especially if solo.