Monster Champion Feedback

[Tesrali]

Honestly I am not impressed with the new Champions. Today I fought a champion dog in Lords of Dust that had like a million hit points. Spending 10 minutes beating down a dog with a crown wasn't really enjoyable for me. Just call me crazy if you must, I don't care.

Look at them crazy pants.

[Tesrali]

Champions are awesome and difficult.
The playerbase needs an added difficulty without altering existing ones.
Some more casual players (who are silly) will say that a mythic difficulty is "horrible"(etc.), just like they do not like the new champions.
People have varied reactions to difficulty but are always willing to "chase the prize." There's been an issue lately with difficulty and reward. 20 mods for your items has been the way to go: besides an achievement running EE was so time/resource/grouping intensive that people shyed away from it.

Please eliminate the 20th list from MoD and up the item drops a little on hard and elite. Similarly, we all know there should be a certain kind of reward for killing a champion. =)

Some people get angry when a new challenge is presented that stops their smooth sailing(?). Best I understand why people are so up in arms about the champions. They make the game less grindy in my opinion, and increase replay value, and variety.

[Keladon]

Champions are awesome and difficult.

You forgot your sarcasm tags.

The playerbase needs an added difficulty without altering existing ones.

/signed.

If it's not broken, don't try to fix it.
Not only did they try to 'fix' the current difficulty, they also pretty much broke it and made it erratic and random beyond belief.

Some people get angry when a new challenge is presented that stops their smooth sailing(?). Best I understand why people are so up in arms about the champions. They make the game less grindy in my opinion, and increase replay value, and variety.

They make the game more grindy!
You either fail because of an overpowered combination = redoing quest = more grindy.
You stand there hitting big bags of HP = quests take longer, no added challenge or fun at all = more grindy.

When something repetitive takes even longer because of an added feature, that feature increases the grind.
If there was more challenge or fun involved I wouldn't mind, but that's not the case right now.

[Qhualor]

You forgot your sarcasm tags.



/signed.

If it's not broken, don't try to fix it.
Not only did they try to 'fix' the current difficulty, they also pretty much broke it and made it erratic and random beyond belief.



They make the game more grindy!
You either fail because of an overpowered combination = redoing quest = more grindy.
You stand there hitting big bags of HP = quests take longer, no added challenge or fun at all = more grindy.

When something repetitive takes even longer because of an added feature, that feature increases the grind.
If there was more challenge or fun involved I wouldn't mind, but that's not the case right now.

Guarantee a new difficulty would require more coding and another difficulty level the devs will have to monitor. Guarantee we will continue to see "mythic difficulty is too hard" posts. I fail to see where elite is broken. The spawn rates are about perfect. Once in awhile you come across a Champion that challenges your character maybe. It takes an extra few swings compared to trash mobs and I have yet, despite some claiming otherwise, to see these massive HP bags. If most or all Champions are causing you so many problems than try a lower difficulty. Hard is a cakewalk if you found elite just right or easy pre-Champions. If elite is a lot more grindy now than try a lower difficulty. If speed is what you like, normal is the most efficient and there are no Champions.

[Keladon]

Guarantee a new difficulty would require more coding and another difficulty level the devs will have to monitor. Guarantee we will continue to see "mythic difficulty is too hard" posts. I fail to see where elite is broken. The spawn rates are about perfect. Once in awhile you come across a Champion that challenges your character maybe. It takes an extra few swings compared to trash mobs and I have yet, despite some claiming otherwise, to see these massive HP bags. If most or all Champions are causing you so many problems than try a lower difficulty. Hard is a cakewalk if you found elite just right or easy pre-Champions. If elite is a lot more grindy now than try a lower difficulty. If speed is what you like, normal is the most efficient and there are no Champions.

You're funny, not going to take you seriously anymore, but you are funny.

It's not about speed, adding 100 doors that only open when you kill 10 mobs each will make quests takes longer, if they want wanted quests to take longer they could have just done that.

"Guarantee a new difficulty would require more coding and another difficulty level the devs will have to monitor."
Casual -> Mythic. No new difficulty required. Adjust the multipliers and you're ready to go.
You're saying that as if this champion feature requires no 'monitoring'. If they just put them in mythic, they will actually have less 'monitoring' to do.

"I fail to see where elite is broken."
Yes you do. It's not elite anymore, it's "Elite with a random invisible extra difficulty slider".

"Once in awhile you come across a Champion that challenges your character maybe"
Once in while.. maybe..
So what you're trying to say is: "don't count on it". They didn't add challenge, they added randomness.

"and I have yet, despite some claiming otherwise, to see these massive HP bags."
Are we even playing the same game? They pop up way more often than they should and even a champion with 2x hp doesn't add any fun or challenge to the game. (And it's not claims, unless you close your eyes whenever a screenshot is posted)

"Hard is a cakewalk if you found elite just right or easy pre-Champions."
No it's not, the randomness of champions is still causing some quests to fail. No skill, only luck involved.
If you're going to make a blanket statement, get it right please.

"If elite is a lot more grindy now than try a lower difficulty."
Repeating quests because of the lower xp you're getting is also grindy. A lower difficulty doesn't solve grind, it makes it worse.

[MangLord]

I just ETRed and then HTRed my Ranger into his third ranger life yesterday, which is my first experience with heroic champions.

I'm now a 36pt pure Elf Ranger with two ranger past lives and one Primal Past Life. Definitely more powerful than a new player, but nothing outrageous. My main character is also a top-level Cannith crafter, so that's a huge advantage for gearing at heroic levels.

I used a bunch of saved weekly goldroll XP boosts to take him to level 3 straight off the bat, and accessed a mule for mastercrafted level 3 deadly, false life and speed items, with the rest of his gear being crafted to round him out. Needless to say, he's considerably more prepared than the average level 3 character with a couple ranger lives and a Colors of the Queen stance going.

After spending some time gearing him up, I ran all of Korthos on HE before logging out for the night. I was expecting some additional challenge with champions, and I saw mixed results. The champions were uncommon enough as to not disrupt play too much, (being used to HE bravery TRs) and didn't offer too much to the quest aside from taking longer to kill, but I did have some trouble with not being able to DPS the inflated HP in a couple quests, mostly due to bad luck. I did run the quests solo, as I usually do while starting a new TR life. (I prefer soloing Korthos and Harbor, particularly if I'm playing a new class that I'm unfamiliar with and learning a new skill set and unfamiliar hotbars.)

In the Cannith Crystal quest, I failed the first two times due to a champion aggroing on the crystal and destroying it before I could kill him. I rarely had this happen prior to the champions. The third time around I brought in a cleric hireling, and between me and Elieri, we managed to avoid any of the enemies from aggroing on the crystal. I parked her near the crystal and I stayed by the door so that I could grab more aggro by proximity to most of the spawns.

A champion necromancer in Heyton's Rest makes the optionals nearly impossible with the lack of abilities and low DPS of a level 1-3 character. Rangers usually do enough damage in Point Blank range, but not against champion HP. My attack speed with a bow wasn't even close to killing the necromancer before it raised the undead on the altar. It's not a lot of XP, so not a big deal, but I felt annoyed that I had no chance at success even with an overprepared character.

The other quest that was problematic was Redemption (of course). Needless to say, this quest has been a chore forever, even without champions. Heyton is just incredibly squishy and an aggro magnet. A cleric hireling has always been mandatory unless you happen to be playing a character with a healing spell on deck, or have a party member healing him full time. With the champions, I got a couple close calls with a champion whelp on the first wave until I got a champion warrior that just chunked down Heyton in four hits, and I couldn't kill it fast enough with a 250+hp health bar. The quest failed and I had to try again. On my second try, I didn't get a champion on the end fight until the baron showed up, and of course it was a champion. Luckily I grabbed his aggro immediately and kited him as I whittled down the rest of the mob while getting hit fairly hard with poison damage. It was the first time my hireling had to focus off Heyton and send me a heal in ages. The baron was mostly a bag of HP, but it was fairly distracting while trying to keep squishy Heyton alive. I tried opening the window on the baron to see what he had going, and I saw an extra poison damage boost, true seeing and death ward before it randomly closed on me and opened Amalgam's window as I was kiting. Heyton survived, but I took significantly more damage than usual. If I didn't have 110 hp at level 3, I would have been in trouble. I felt grateful that I grabbed the aggro instead of anyone else allied with me for the encounter.

Based on my playing today, the champions aren't terribly dangerous unless they aggro on a squishy NPC that you have to protect (did you guys rebreak Threnal before it had a chance to be fun?). The only real issues I can see are quests that require protection or survival of NPCs, or preserving enemies like Sleeping Dust. The champions are mostly tedious and annoying.

Overall, my reaction to seeing a champion is negative. They're not terribly dangerous and only serve to slow down the pace of a quest that I've run 1000x already and would prefer to get past with the least amount of trouble. They aren't really exciting and certain monster champions, like bats and beholders, are just painful. That being said, I'm happy that they've been toned down to uncommon status. Certain champion monsters, namely undead, are way more trouble than they're worth. If they were tougher or more numerous, I would certainly expect some sort of added reward for dealing with them. Otherwise, running Normal over and over seems like the path of least resistance to get through old content. The maths may prove that a bravery bonus is still better, but I'm not sure. Protection quests certainly need to be looked at, because a champion has always spawned at the most inopportune time for me. If nothing else, the champion system has me crossing my fingers for no whammies in anticipation of traditionally tough end fights that don't need champions to already be challenging. For the most part, a well prepared player doesn't have a lot of trouble with champions, but they can still throw a wrench in the works with a tough set of buffs at an inopportune time.

[Connman]

New players to the game, trying to protect a crystal and an old man, may decide quickly to uninstall the game when champions cause them to fail their quests. Remove champions from Korthos Island. This should have been a self-evident game decision at the beginning, assuming DDO wishes to attract new players and retain them through the first few levels.

Or what is much more likely they will just try another quest. I mean this whole new player straw-man is a joke. like a new player is a type of person that has the exact same interests, likes, dislikes, and is looking for the exact same thing as every other "new player".

"New Players" are people, some will like one thing, some will like another.

But I can tell you this with a fair amount of certainty, if fast paced combat and awesome controls are not what a "new player' is looking for they won't like this game. If having an active hands on approach to MMO gaming is what they are looking for they will probably stay.

Oh and "new players" they don't know any better, they don't know that a couple of weeks ago you could solo every quest possible with a Bard, a Bard for Pete's sake. They don't know champions are a new thing, just a thing.

*EDIT* Also, seriously, you seriously believe that if someone has the patience to wait for this game to download and patch itself, they are going to play for 15 minutes and uninstall?

[Qhualor]

You're funny, not going to take you seriously anymore, but you are funny.

It's not about speed, adding 100 doors that only open when you kill 10 mobs each will make quests takes longer, if they want wanted quests to take longer they could have just done that.

"Guarantee a new difficulty would require more coding and another difficulty level the devs will have to monitor."
Casual -> Mythic. No new difficulty required. Adjust the multipliers and you're ready to go.
You're saying that as if this champion feature requires no 'monitoring'. If they just put them in mythic, they will actually have less 'monitoring' to do.

"I fail to see where elite is broken."
Yes you do. It's not elite anymore, it's "Elite with a random invisible extra difficulty slider".

"Once in awhile you come across a Champion that challenges your character maybe"
Once in while.. maybe..
So what you're trying to say is: "don't count on it". They didn't add challenge, they added randomness.

"and I have yet, despite some claiming otherwise, to see these massive HP bags."
Are we even playing the same game? They pop up way more often than they should and even a champion with 2x hp doesn't add any fun or challenge to the game. (And it's not claims, unless you close your eyes whenever a screenshot is posted)

"Hard is a cakewalk if you found elite just right or easy pre-Champions."
No it's not, the randomness of champions is still causing some quests to fail. No skill, only luck involved.
If you're going to make a blanket statement, get it right please.

"If elite is a lot more grindy now than try a lower difficulty."
Repeating quests because of the lower xp you're getting is also grindy. A lower difficulty doesn't solve grind, it makes it worse.

You know you would complain about adding more "mobs needed to kill before proceeding" just like a lot of others have now that we are seeing more quests like that. That doesn't provide challenge. That's an attempt to slow zergers down.

I guess you haven't seen the difference between hard and elite. Champions on hard are a half step up compared to trash mobs. Almost pointless to even have them when they barely do much more damage than trash mobs. Adding another difficulty means taking the time and tweaking the balance so it provides a justified challenge and not a stupid one. There's months long of debates. Than you have to figure out incentives since the game overall is played path of least resistance for best rewards. There's debates that's been going on for years. Some of you make it sound so easy to just develop a new difficulty when we already have a difficulty that needs rebalancing as our characters have grown in power. Keeping elite without a proper challenge only pushes players away looking for challenge.

Its elite with a random mob that has a couple unique buffs that might spank you if you don't take caution. Pre-Champion nerf I was beginning to see groups slow down a little and use tactics more. It was a nice change of pace to play differently than run forward and smash tactics. It was nice to see more players starting to help each other out with heals. It was nice to start seeing a little more teamwork and less solo/hero players in groups.

Now you are talking about obvious tweaks that even Champion supporters have agreed need to be made. Protection quests, hires, quests that cause instant DA all need to be fixed and most likely on a quest by quest basis.

I thought speed wasn't your concern? I don't care about speed much myself as long as I make steady progress. I know my characters can't always handle elite and often drop to hard. I still make good progression. I know some people don't like losing BB or hearing from others that if you can't handle it than drop down a difficulty, but that's the way it is. It also points to a big issue with the game called player incentive and entitlement. The rewards attached to the difficulties are borked and need adjustment so players can stick to a difficulty that they are comfortable playing.

[Connman]

..
Scaring away new players away from the start or not giving them an enjoyable introduction and first few quests will cause them to uninstall...

I like how you ignored the first part of my post and decided to speak for every single person on the entire planet that is a "new player'.

Because you are, you know, right, you are using the "new player" straw-man, in response to a post that calls people out on it.

Well Played. You should run for some sort of office.

[phillymiket]

I like how you ignored the first part of my post and decided to speak for every single person on the entire planet that is a "new player'.

Because you are, you know, right, you are using the "new player" straw-man, in response to a post that calls people out on it.

Well Played. You should run for some sort of office.

A "Straw Man" is a misrepresentation of an opponent's argument and not simply an invented hypothetical person, so you are misusing that a bit.

Or what is much more likely they will just try another quest. I mean this whole new player straw-man is a joke. like a new player is a type of person that has the exact same interests, likes, dislikes, and is looking for the exact same thing as every other "new player".

"New Players" are people, some will like one thing, some will like another.

Yes, i agree.
New Players are not a monolith. Some will like some will not.
But the point of the Starter Area of a game is to accentuate what is great about the game, make it seem even better than it is, cover up bugs and errors, and create a fantasy of a game the player will enjoy, be challenged by, and will eventually master.
That way people think "I've found my game" and buy something permanent with real cash.
Once people have learned the game and made a commitment to invest actual money I suspect they are far far more likely to push through bad features or things they don't like.
The point of Starter Islands isn't to filter out people who don't like Champions.
Why have a feature "some will like and some will not" right at the start?
Make Starter Island universally appealing.

But I can tell you this with a fair amount of certainty, if fast paced combat and awesome controls are not what a "new player' is looking for they won't like this game. If having an active hands on approach to MMO gaming is what they are looking for they will probably stay.

Exactly.
The Combat System is what sells this game.
Let the Combat System's scrubbing bubbles do their work.
Give the game a chance to sell itself before we let the cat out of the bag that DDO is riddled with bugs.
But as soon as someone sees an obvious NCP or corpse that is a "Champion" or the other Champion bugs, then DDO looks stupid and incompetent as a first impression.
Starter Island should be the most polished, most flashy, best working, most straight-forward and most well-thought out area in the game.

Oh and "new players" they don't know any better, they don't know that a couple of weeks ago you could solo every quest possible with a Bard, a Bard for Pete's sake. They don't know champions are a new thing, just a thing.

Exactly.
New players don't know how we arrived at this half-azzed "solution" to balance, they don't know the Dev's will fix bugged Champs "soon" (yeah right), they don't know why the game has come to have two uselessly easy settings and then two much harder settings with random, buggy and unpredictable mobs.
They wouldn't know why the trash mobs are more powerful then the boss by a good measure.
All they would know is the game makes no sense and is riddled with bugs.

*EDIT* Also, seriously, you seriously believe that if someone has the patience to wait for this game to download and patch itself, they are going to play for 15 minutes and uninstall?

Are you joking?

I try games all the time.
They hook me right at the start or lose me forever.
That's why Starter Area is some Mother F'n important!
That's why Starter Area is so fundamentally different and should be treated with kid gloves and special care.

Downloading is what you do when you are away from the computer and represents no commitment whatsoever.
Having spent money or time, I believe, is what commits people to stick with a game and inspires patience and a willingness to over-look undesirable features, not the stupid down-load time.
We should try (in a non-pushy way) to get people to Sub or spend on something as early as possible and try to get people to hang around as long as possible because DDO, even with the old graphics and all, grows on you.
But not if you uninstall after your first play session.

Heck, I enjoy sticking the knife in the heart of terrible games by uninstalling them!

[Connman]

just for reference i use the Merriam-webster definition, 1, not the Wikipedia one.

Full Definition of STRAW MAN
1: a weak or imaginary opposition (as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted.
2: a person set up to serve as a cover for a usually questionable transaction

So it may be a little stretch but it fits, I think, because:
1: This "new player' is an Imaginary entity with the attributes of whatever side of whatever argument is using them.
2: Anything that can be confuted with common sense, i.e. people like different things, can only be there as a diversion.

And honestly, the first thing I do is get off of newbie island when I try a new game, don't fall into that same trap as others assuming because you do a thing all others must do the same.

For Example:
AION is 40+gigabytes, seriously, big. I don't really like it so far, the controls leave a lot to be desired, and if it weren't for champions breathing some new life into this game for me I would probably be playing it. Because after spending 8 hours waiting for the download to complete, I am going to need to get off of newbie island before I make any big decisions about it. That's just me, my assumption is that all others who download it will keep or discard it as set out by their personal criteria, not mine.

[Keladon]

I like how you ignored the first part of my post and decided to speak for every single person on the entire planet that is a "new player'.

Because you are, you know, right, you are using the "new player" straw-man, in response to a post that calls people out on it.

Well Played. You should run for some sort of office.

That is because I was not replying to the first part of your post at all. (There's a reason I didn't quote it)

I like how you assume things but It's easier to sound smart if you actually are.

I was replying to the last sentence and question, followed by saying what got me hooked.

"Scaring away new players away from the start or not giving them an enjoyable introduction and first few quests will cause them to uninstall."
If you scare people away they will uninstall.
If you don't give then an enjoyable introduction to the game, they will be more likely to uninstall. Those are facts.
This is really basic stuff here, it's part of the "first impression", it matters, a lot.

[Nigel137]

It is when Turbine have asked for specific examples of excessive hitpoints. It would be helpful if they knew how excessive, because it may be a random confluence of buffs that causes it. Of course, without turbine providing a completed set of monster manuals it is not possible to actually tell the hit points of a range of mobs. I think dogs are in the MM though. Still, that would then assume that all players have unlocked all rewards in all MMs if Turbine want specific hit point numbers, so I don't know how reasonable their request is in the first place, I certainly haven't unlocked everything.

Still, I have no idea from your post whether the dog in question has a thousand or ten thousand hitpoints. As a rough measuring stick - did the dog take longer to beat down than either of the bosses at the end of LoD?

...and I hate to do this, its not terribly in keeping with forum rules but: it's Kalashtar.

Um, no. What turbine asked for was feedback. If you care to direct your gaze towards the top of your screen you'll notice it is the title of this thread. Also, again, no. Dogs are not in the MM so its impossible to provide specifics on dog hit points. You should really not talk about what is helpful since you are anything but.

Also, since you're obviously not a Calashtar (I hate to do that but: I don't care how you want it spelled), the point (and my feedback) was that spending so much time fighting something of such little importance to a quest as a small dog is not something I find very entertaining.

[Keladon]

the point (and my feedback) was that spending so much time fighting something of such little importance to a quest as a small dog is not something I find very entertaining.

That's the problem here, everyone seems to have a different personal definition of 'Challenging', 'entertaining', 'difficult', etc.

Turbine obviously thought spending more time on insignificant monsters is an increase in difficulty.

Some people find getting 1shotted 'Challenging' and even 'entertaining' .. I find it frustrating.

And this thread if full of examples like that. It just makes me wonder if it's even productive to keep posting here.

[Nigel137]

That's the problem here, everyone seems to have a different personal definition of 'Challenging', 'entertaining', 'difficult', etc.

Turbine obviously thought spending more time on insignificant monsters is an increase in difficulty.

Some people find getting 1shotted 'Challenging' and even 'entertaining' .. I find it frustrating.

And this thread if full of examples like that. It just makes me wonder if it's even productive to keep posting here.

You, sir, understood EXACTLY the point I was trying to make. From my point of view I see you as a Kalashtar! =)

[Sehenry03]

Are people still complaining about champions? They aren't even mentioned in game anymore just on the forums. I haven't grouped with many new players lately as Ziffin has hit the epic levels so he is mainly playing with guild groups.

Champions are just a side note anymore.

I haven't been 1 shotted in ages now...not even close. Yes some still hit REALLY hard but nothing that can't be dealt with. Chests still drop entirely too much from rare champions though. I still run into a few meatbags but not many...most are dying fast enough.

Champions are here to stay. Check box is not being implemented. Loot from Champions is here to stay. Simple facts.

I don't mind them are even care about them anymore. They were funner before the nerf now they are simply another mob but with a crown. I still blast through dungeons the same way now I just move more when a champion is near in case its a hard hitting version.

Turbine that's my input. For me to care about them you would have to bump them back up. I haven't ran into a champ lately that is as tough as the end mob anymore. Some still hit as hard but they die much quicker.

For people who might still be complaining about being 1 shot now...Con is not a dump stat. Even a new player can get more then enough HP's to avoid being 1 shot if they pay attention. The only issue I see now is casters running out of mana killing a meatbag champion and even that is not a big deal anymore as they are not as bad as they were before.

[Sehenry03]

LOL sorry but you don't need a dev to tell you everything to figure certain things out.

Those 3 things are pretty easy to surmise from what they said (champions will be tweaked now and again and were designed for other future uses) and what they specifically have not said (they still have no mention of check boxes which means they aren't considering).

Everyone can guess all they want but here's the thing...wish in one had and....ok you get the idea.

I am glad they are keeping champions. yes I could mention a few tweaks but I already have. Champions are already blowing over as people are quickly figuring out how to deal with them. The only ones having problems are the people posting here and it looks like the dev's have figured that out.

Sarlona has no change in players since U24 even with all the rampant "I am quitting!!!!" its obvious very few people left at all if any. I get MORE people joining my LFM now then before and I see more LFMs posted. I see the same amount of players playing at the various times I play. NO ONE in game even talks about champions...NO ONE. Not a single group I have been in has mentioned them the last few days because no one in game cares now. The only ones upset are those posting here.

I wish all of you good luck in getting rid of champions but this is a pill you will simply have to swallow and deal with. They aren't the end of the game people have posted over and over.

[Qhualor]

I haven't heard anything about plans for 2016, must be that they're shutting down the game before that.
I like your logic.
I also like how you know exactly what the devs think and are planning.

This is exactly why I already said this thread isn't going anywhere.

Well they didn't specifically say the game will be around in 2016, but the did say their board is full plans for months to come.

Champions are here to stay. Get used to it or drop to a difficulty you can handle.

[Sehenry03]

Well everyone can read into everything how they want. If you want to go overboard on my logic go right ahead. The Dev's are talking about champions and what they are trying to do and they have not mentioned check boxes. I will bet money they NEVER will implement check boxes as that completely kills what they are trying to do.

1) make the game harder (supposedly)
2) This is just my guess but I think what this is really about is trying to reduce the amount of free TP's that have been given out over the last 8 years. Right now it is easy to get TP's and champions are a way I GUESS to reduce the easy TP's.

Again...guess all you want but if can't read the writing on the wall then buy a pair of tharnes goggles...ok that was sad lol.

Dev's aren't gonna change much on champs as no one in game cares. They aren't losing sub's left and right like the doomsayers were saying.

Right now I think they have the champions where they want them and only a few people here on the forums are still bothered by them. New players never cared much..and yes I can speak to that as I am constantly posting on the forums for new players to ask for help with gear or leveling so I group with quite a few new players. U24 has brought in more new players...I doubt it has anything to do with the update specifically I heard someone say they have seen more advertising which would account for it plus all the Christmas deals they had. new players just don't care about champions. The veterans were the ones up in arms and acting like new players were getting screwed.

Again I wish you luck I truly do...I could care less about the champions now one way or the other. The nerf to the original batch killed what I was hoping for so anything now just becomes more mobs to kill.

People here can keep saying that people are quitting left and right but at least on Sarlona that's a falsity. Maybe they are quitting other servers left and right but Sarlona is doing better then it has in a long time. I think its the default new player server plus I post in both new players forums and sarlona forums for all new players to send me an in game tell and I will be happy to help. I am happy to say I have seen quite a few new players and a couple newer players that quit other servers to try sarlona. The game might just have got a shot in the arm from champions but only time will tell.

[Sehenry03]

This makes your post hilarious. You start throwing around guesses disguised as facts and then you say something like that. Hilarious.

The difference is...what the dev's have done in game and posted on the forums leans more to what I am saying then anyone expecting a check box or for champs to go away.