Monster Champion Feedback

[Aletys]

People who are threatening to leave over this (or as you would believe...are leaving over this) are not the people that this game relies on. The people threatening to leave are those types of people who want to come into a game and "win" with little effort and be as good as the person who has invested years playing. I say good riddance since there are still some of us left around from the VERY early days and have had to put up with the dumbing down of this game to satisfy the lowest common denominator.

If the game gets harder then that is a good thing. Is their new system "perfect" no but when have they ever rolled out something that didn't need to be tweaked/hotfixed? It will get fixed eventually and if people can't wait for that then too **** bad. Personally the challenge is very welcoming and imho only needs a few very minor tweaks.

Obviously you don't know what you are talking about, and clearly haven't read the posts from most of us. I'll leave it at that.

[DarthCaedus]

And to those people saying how lots of people playing the game don't post on the forums...

I'm sorry but if you aren't gonna post feedback on the forums you have no say as to what happens in the game.

Its like voting...if you didn't vote then plz don't complain about the president as you didn't actually try to make an impact.

If you want a voice in changes to the champion system you should be on the forums. People in game either complaining or advocating them should be ignored til they come here with feedback. EVERYONE playing an MMO should use the forums for this exact purpose.

People vote in DDO with their dollar spend not their forum posts.

[Hilltrot]

Perhaps you missed my snarkiness.

But thanks for proving why check boxes is a bad idea.

Yes, you're right there should be play or no play. None of this normal, hard, elite stupidity. It was a bad idea in 2006 and it's a bad idea now.

[Sehenry03]

I'd much rather have a toned down champion system than a checkbox.

Same.

I am not an elitist but I am all about being equal. If you run a HE quest with champions and get whatever reward/favor I should not be able to check a box and have an easier time doing the same thing.

Look its obvious Turbine did this to stop how easy it was for people to get TP's and get favor in general. I'm fine with that. It won't work for a lot of players and then other players (like myself) have no issues taking a group of non geared players through the NEW champion based HE quests to get them favor.

Its not going away and I don't think Turbine plans on issuing a checkbox since that would eliminate the whole point of this for them so we just need to compromise.

BUT if Turbine did this to make it harder to get free TP's or favor then all the whining in the world won't stop them from keeping it hard for lesser geared/skilled players.

[Jomee]

People vote in DDO with their dollar spend not their forum posts.

Will the champions save DDO?

[Ironforge_Clan]

Well, you got it half-right. Those who choose to run with champions should get some extra xp, & maybe a higher chance at the named loot. Don't nerf it for the rest of us.

It is pretty much the same thing but I do see your point. My statement was to reflect that if people didn't want to play the intended game mechanic and wanted it easier then they should be penalized. Either works imo.

[Sehenry03]

And to all those who talk about quitting and never coming back...

Yes DDO has lost a lot of players over the years for whatever reason.

No it is not updates like this that caused it I don't think.

IMHO it is because people simply get bored and move on like other MMO's.

Out of the tons of posts of people threatening to leave the game...VERY few will actually leave.

Complain all ya want but anyone that leaves...again my humble opinion...will be replaced by a few who read about the champions are are curious to try it again.

And those that do leave will probably be back within a few months.

And those that DON'T come back...well watch that door it can get ya

[Impaqt]

For all the vets that are saying that this reminds them of the fun they had when they were new, this is a very important point. When you were new, you still had lots of room to grow, you could increase the power of you character a ton, and there was still a lot you could learn about the game itself.

People mention remembering being one shot by mobs when they were new. How long did that go on before you took steps to prevent it. Remember when the advise was to get more hit points, get false life item, don't dump con? Once you did that, you stopped getting one shotted right?


The problem with this new system is, that now the mobs are one shotting people who HAVE all that stuff. What is the point of even trying to get more hit points, more prr, more of anything really, if it won't make a tangible difference in the game?

its called a "wake up call". sure, we might have decent gear and lots of hit points, but fact of the matter is that we have gotten complacent. we have come to expect little danger from Hard or even Elite mobs.

People arent getting One shotted because they dont have the right gear or because they built their character wrong. They are getting owned because they didnt prepare for the fight... Or didnt bother to use crowd control... or simple tactics.

The game has now changed to one where it's basically you get hit, you die. There is almost nobody with the skill level to play at that level in this game. So the result will be that yes, people will resort to cheesy "tactics" because there will be no other option. Then once people have learned to do that, what next? There will be no reason to progress your character, because only the "tactics' will matter. That's fine in a game that is designed that way, but it's a terrible mechanic for a game whose main appeal is character development.

Completely false.

Just so happens I've been leveling a hybrid melee wizard lately... I've had the pleasure of running levels 17-22 since Champions went live..... So I've had the pleasure of running Heroic Elite Vale and into some Epic Hard Gianthold.

people will be happy to confim I am FAR from "uber"... But I've refused to take Champions lightly. In Madstone Crater, I was significantly Under level, off Destiny, on lowest HP member of the pug I joined.

As a melee, I was right in the mix with the kill counts but somehow didnt die once. I used my Webs, Glitterdust, and charms to minimize the danger I faced. Most of the other melees had multiple deaths. not because they were bad... but because they were playing with the same tactics they played with last week.... None.....

[DarthCaedus]

Will the champions save DDO?

Quite the opposite I suspect. Several of us are playing Neverwinter instead of DDO right now and based on what I am ready we are not the only people that will leave.

[Ironforge_Clan]

Obviously you don't know what you are talking about, and clearly haven't read the posts from most of us. I'll leave it at that.

I know exactly what I'm talking about. The fact that it differs from your opinion is what you have an issue with. Did I read each and every post...no I did not. Do I need to...no I do not.

My statements still stand. Those leaving over this mechanic are the same people who threaten to leave each and every time something is changed/nerfed, etc. It will get tweaked eventually one just has to wait. As I stated the system isn't perfect (far from it) but the idea is sound. This game needs additional challenge and if you don't want them there is always the normal setting. I don't judge.

[Impaqt]

Quite the opposite I suspect. Several of us are playing Neverwinter instead of DDO right now and based on what I am ready we are not the only people that will leave.

If your having so much fun in Neverwinter, why are you still posting over here?

[haulindonkey]

I'd much rather have a toned down champion system than a checkbox.

I could go for either. But checkbox is ok IF there is an xp bump for those opting to face the champions.

[FestusHood]

he wasnt present those numbers as facts....

Still its hard to argue the fact that we have lost a significant number of people because the game got too easy lacked any real challenge.

I know many people who have quit the game. Yes some of them quit the game because they were bored, but not one that i know quit the game specifically because it was too easy.

[Impaqt]

I know many people who have quit the game. Yes some of them quit the game because they were bored, but not one that i know quit the game specifically because it was too easy.

I really dont see a big difference between the 2......

[Ironforge_Clan]

I know many people who have quit the game. Yes some of them quit the game because they were bored, but not one that i know quit the game specifically because it was too easy.

Generally, but I will admit not all cases, something being too easy leads to boredom and loss of interest. If there is no challenge why do it.

[Severlin]

Greetings!

We have been reading player feedback, data gathering how players did over the weekend with Monster Champions in place, and playing with the content ourselves. Although we are still data-mining, I wanted to give players our initial impressions of all of this.

~ Overall we like the system and have had fun with it. A lot of players played with the system over the weekend. That said, even our most hardcore devs agree there are probably just too many Monster Champions, especially on Hard. We plan on reducing the spawn chance by around ~20% on Elite and ~40% on Hard. This will include minions and orange name bosses.

~ We are also looking at damage. There is some content where the damage is higher than we are comfortable with. We will probably dial back the damage increase as well. We want feedback on the possiblity that damage boosts for minion and orange named bosses will drop by about 20%.

We are looking for feedback for these proposed changes as we want to make those changes this week.

~ We agree with players that it would be cool to have the Champions have a chance to give an extra reward such as Champion tokens. We like the suggestion that tokens can be turned in for some crafting materials and are looking into that.

~ Hirelings seem somewhat fragile with Monster Champions lurking about. After our changes we will be looking for feedback as to whether they need to take less damage from Monster Champions. That change is somewhat involved and wouldn't be put in until the next patch.

Sev~

[Hilltrot]

Will the champions save DDO?

I don't see people spending money on this.

[MangLord]

I would just like to ask those who like it as it is but are against a check box option one question.

What happens when there is no check box and the "horde of casuals" complain until it gets nerfed?

Honestly, I see it as the best solution. It isn't hurting anyone, aside from the coders who have to make it happen. Why does it make players angry? If you want champions, just check the box. How does it hurt anyone if someone would rather not deal with champions?

The argument of "if there was a checkbox, no one would play it" is fundamentally flawed. For example, I would check the box for traps every time if I could get the extra xp for ingenous debilitation, and I'd probably still check it if I had a high HP build or could otherwise reasonably expect to survive the traps if unchecking the trap option resulted in an XP penalty. Risk/reward is the key issue. As of now, there is no risk/reward system for champions. My xp/min is much greater on EN now, so I've just been running EN until I get bored and find something else to do. I broke out the old Xbox this evening and dusted off my copy of Fallout:New Vegas. What an awesome game! I haven't played it since I rediscovered DDO a few years back.

[Sehenry03]

Greetings!

We have been reading player feedback, data gathering how players did over the weekend with Monster Champions in place, and playing with the content ourselves. Although we are still data-mining, I wanted to give players our initial impressions of all of this.

~ Overall we like the system and have had fun with it. A lot of players played with the system over the weekend. That said, even our most hardcore devs agree there are probably just too many Monster Champions, especially on Hard. We plan on reducing the spawn chance by around ~20% on Elite and ~40% on Hard. This will include minions and orange name bosses.

~ We are also looking at damage. There is some content where the damage is higher than we are comfortable with. We will probably dial back the damage increase as well. We want feedback on the possiblity that damage boosts for minion and orange named bosses will drop by about 20%.

We are looking for feedback for these proposed changes as we want to make those changes this week.

~ We agree with players that it would be cool to have the Champions have a chance to give an extra reward such as Champion tokens. We like the suggestion that tokens can be turned in for some crafting materials and are looking into that.

~ Hirelings seem somewhat fragile with Monster Champions lurking about. After our changes we will be looking for feedback as to whether they need to take less damage from Monster Champions. That change is somewhat involved and wouldn't be put in until the next patch.

Sev~

Also might make any NPC you have to protect a champion...that would bother the heck out of me lol

[Qhualor]

I know many people who have quit the game. Yes some of them quit the game because they were bored, but not one that i know quit the game specifically because it was too easy.

If people leave other than real life reasons, its usually because they don't agree with the changes to the game. Aka changes to the game made things easier.