Monster Champion Feedback

[gaffneyks]

Ok so for those wanting a check box to enable champions here ya go:



First 2 options are no champions and last 2 options are with champions. See I fixed it for ya =)

lol so funny.

Already played those levels years ago. I will just move on and pay another company other than turbine to play their game. If I am going to play or casual or normal I might as well play a new
game with content I have not seen 1000 times. I am not as uber as all you. Now I understand. I should never have been playing heroic elite all these years. How stupid of me.

[Uska]

Ok so for those wanting a check box to enable champions here ya go:



First 2 options are no champions and last 2 options are with champions. See I fixed it for ya =)

You fixed nothing

[nibel]

Dictionary: "champion" - A person who has defeated or surpassed all rivals in a competition, especially in sports.

Arguing based on the definition of a name means nothing in the feedback. The best it can provide is that the name should be changed.

Example: If instead of "champion", they were named "armored", would you be complaining if a loincloth-wearing troll turned out to be an armored monster? Or if they were "empowered", would you complain if you meet an Empowered monster that only had as a buff Blur, when you had True Seeing, would you argue that they were not empowered in any way or form?

This is not a critic to the rest of your post, just a reminder that going by dictionary definitions is not a good argument.

[Springstring]

Love it! Don't change a thing.

Ran all the quests yesterday on EE + EE Haunted Halls, sure a few times some members died but over all love the champions......don't cave in to the charlie casuals there are lower difficulty settings the can choose

On the other hand don't cave in on the EE player that have a stick up there bottom and all they want to do is talk about how good they are because they don't have a life other than DDO

[BD_]

I plan to check later but I assume that champions do not appear in the cannith and eveningstar challenges due to the absence of a difficulty selector?

As of now, correct.... All challenges are treated like normal difficulty - with the ability to change the base level - they also have their own unique scaling.

[sjwales]

Ok so for those wanting a check box to enable champions here ya go:



First 2 options are no champions and last 2 options are with champions. See I fixed it for ya =)

I have some characters that can probably handle Champs. (I haven't played a lot yet this week so I'm not 100% certain). I have some that definitely could not.

However this "solution" is no solution at all. Normal is pretty much uniformly dull and not fun. Hard and Elite (for the gimps - because sometimes I am not necessarily playing a min/maxed character) then may become too difficult for a less optimal character.

Sometimes I solo. Sometimes I group.

But the bottom line is, if I'm solo-ing on a less than optimized character, this change can possibly mean that I spend time banging my head against the desk in a pile of "not fun".

For those who like the Champs, great! That is fun for you. However, what makes your fun "right" and the dissenter's fun "wrong" ?
For those who don't - then this is likely to drive people away from an already dwindling player base.

I have little enough leisure time as it is - if this starts becoming not fun to me, I'll take my subscription fees elsewhere. There are lots of other games to play.

Providing a Champs on/off option will allow everyone to play the game in a way that they can enjoy - and isn't that what's best for the game over all ?

[YDdraig]

Ok I'm not getting into detail of where the bad moster touched me on the doll provided but I have some suggestions.

Oh and I know that I'm only speaking for myself not representing some silent majority that like me previous to today couldn't be bothered to post on a forum.

From my experiance there are too many champoins, for my taste I would rather see them spawn around the 3-5% level. Make them rare and note worthy. also to reduce the frequency of opening a door on five of them and being handed a part of my own anatomy.

They would be far more palatable with exp....say 2% of the base adventure, in most cases just a token.

Other than that I like some random.....just not random death, unless I'm the perpetrator.

[Qezuzu]

THEY never cater to the 1%.
NEVER, NOT A SINGLE TIME.
THEY ALWAYS CATER THE 99%.
ALL PROPER GAMES CATER THE 1%.

RIOT THE MOST POPULAR MMO AROUND CATERS AND TAKES FEEDBACK ONLY FROM 0.2% GAMERS WHEN IT COMES TO BALANCE AND THEY TAKE 99,8% FEEDBACK FOR COSMETICS WHAT STYLE FOR NEW CHAMPS AND WHAT COLORS TO ADD TO SCREEN.

LEAGUE OF LEGENDS IS NOT AN MMO.

Those 0.2% are not powergaming min-maxers, they are TOURNEY PLAYERS.

Of course Riot listens to them, they're the ones who know what balance is in a game that is PVP. And a balanced, competitive game matters when you have such a prominent competitive scene.

[PhotoRob]

Ok so for those wanting a check box to enable champions here ya go:



First 2 options are no champions and last 2 options are with champions. See I fixed it for ya =)

I'll switch from HH to HN the same day *YOU* stop equipping uber gear. Yeah, I thought you wouldn't.

[Livmo]

BTW that crown is on an NPC that you don't fight with in that quest, Shadow of a Doubt.

[chanlin0582]

I'm going to second the idea that champion mobs should provide more experience OR should add to the conquest count so arriving at the conquest bonus is easier.

One thing I'm beginning to realize about this particular change is that one of the things that makes DDO so fun to play to me is no longer 100% true. For me DDO has always been about the casual experience. There are many different build and class combinations that were fun and viable at the Hard/Elite difficulty level without having to be a hardcore min/max character whose ultimate aim was to tackle the most difficult raid content. A solo player or duo team could run through stuff and do just fine with a couple of hirelings to watch their back. The Champion system as is has made this no longer true, and for me that is a huge turn off.

[Livmo]

Ok I'm not getting into detail of where the bad moster touched me on the doll provided but I have some suggestions.

Oh and I know that I'm only speaking for myself not representing some silent majority that like me previous to today couldn't be bothered to post on a forum.

From my experiance there are too many champoins, for my taste I would rather see them spawn around the 3-5% level. Make them rare and note worthy. also to reduce the frequency of opening a door on five of them and being handed a part of my own anatomy.

They would be far more palatable with exp....say 2% of the base adventure, in most cases just a token.

Other than that I like some random.....just not random death, unless I'm the perpetrator.

I feel the same way. I've done a few more quests now and in some quests almost every monster has crown and even some of the NPCs too

They aren't special in some quests, because all teh baddies are Champions. I'm not sure that Champions are working as intended. Perhaps its a global setting that doesn't play nice with all quests, i.e. Haunted Halls. I'm not really sure why almost all the baddies are now champs in there. Be careful getting the zombie crest in there on EE. You get instant Red Dungeon Alert and they are all champs.

EDIT ~ its also clear in HH that REd Dungeon alert is not working as intended as well. Even when you kill all the kobolds and baddies on the way to the zombie crest, as soon as you enter the hallway you get red dungeon alert. Which causes you to slow to a crawl and the champs just destroy you and there is nothing you can do about it, because you are slowed/griefed by red dungeon alert.

Red Dungeon Alert griefs players and makes some quests un-playable. I don't have beef with EE, just the red alert and wipe on required quest item. Clearly broken and proves that the mechanic is broken in HH. I strongly recomend that Turbine/DDO play test out side of their environment. There are some other quests besides HH where you can solo and clear and still get griefedd by red alert. The Champions just make you die faster when you are slowed and they debuff you. A perfect storm to turn players off to any game.

[SynalonEtuul]

I really like the champions. They provide variety and actually pose a threat. They're irritating in a way that makes the quest more engaging to run. You actually have to think about how to deal with them.

I think it probably would be a good idea to have something like a small x.p. reward, but I like them in themselves for their added challenge.

[Springstring]

Monster Champions only have a chance to have True Seeing and/or Deathward. Some Champions won't have either one. We certainly expect players to use instant kill abilities on many Champions.

The exact chances to have True Seeing and Deathward are, of course, subject to change. We didn't want these to be very low, as that also reduces the tactical variety that's used -- not every champion should be instantly killed or entirely invis-zerged past.

True to you statement but when you have 8 spawn which I have had and there HP are *3 normal and you get hit for over 2 K a pop the game is no longer fun



This sounds like confirmation that the current percentage is probably working correctly. If you felt there were 40 out of 400 normal monsters (plus extra for the higher chance for orange named minibosses), that's precisely 10%, which is only slightly higher than the intended amount.


We don't expect brand new players to be playing Heroic Elite most of the time.

Who is we? The monsters already have outrageous HP now they get to go you by at lea3 3*HP, and back stab is out, never worked on any Champion I faced (24 before I just gave up) they always save then turn hit (Ding) dead in one hit with displacement on and 200 fort.


Stealth is unaffected by True Seeing.

Wrong, it might be a bug, Running my rogue, did not even move, fighter went after the Monster they by passed them and one shot (ding I am dead) and this has happened more than one and only when they have true seeing one..

Each of the buffs listed here is already in the list of the possibilities. We agree!

some more than others, every time my toon has faces more than one Champion at least 50% have death word and true seeing

[Braegan]

Champion mobs get "randomized buffs". Apparently in your ONE TEST your champion Shaman didn't get the buff that other people have witnessed. I KNOW, it is hard to believe that a sample size of ONE didn't net you the same results. But perhaps you should run it a few more times before you dis other players...

I wasn't trying to dis other players. I went in multiple times, ran into several packs of shaman champs, never saw the result talked about. Maybe I got lucky? I've also spent most of my time working on an ER and doing more epic quests like the new chain a few times, I also haven't seen the 8k crits there. That's what I was trying to get at. Was what happened to those few claiming this a rare buff? a bug? Because it is not every time.

I think it was Water Works and not Butcher's Path that they were talking about.

In any case, Butcher's path on elite is at L4. Now how many hp would a new player at L4 have?

Not everyone is in a guild with the magic buffs.

WW or Butchers both have elite shaman, the shamans have the same spell set for n/h/e. I also went with something I could walk right into since I am not VIP and none of my characters are currently under 20 so I needed to get an opener.

Most level 4 characters can survive a 40 pt tick. Especially with some buffs available to the classes at that level or found in pots/wands.

My guild is a solo guild (lvl 59) with the lowest resist (highest available to me) providing a whole 5 to energy resistance.

thank you for the strawmen argument, the 850 ish electric damage was reported in a full party, not a 2 man (only 2 people are in) second, he doesn't have the buff for spells
the damage was done in the ww though, the 1200 damage was from butchers path (optional boss that turned into a champion), noone at that lv can tank that
You forgot to account for level scaling

Not trying to provide a strawman. Just pointing out in a lot of running through there I didn't encounter it. I did forget about scaling, true. How often have you encountered that buff to spells? As I said I didn't see it once, honestly I've spent more time in epics than in heroics as I am working on an ER atm. I also haven't seen the crazy high damage in epics. I did get smacked with a 1600~ hit from a garg in Terminal.

But hey, I am all for tweaking things and whatnot. First we'd have to determine if these crazy high hits are wai, a bug, a rare buff, etc before I can logically get on board with any kind of changes.

[Blackheartox]

LEAGUE OF LEGENDS IS NOT AN MMO.

Those 0.2% are not powergaming min-maxers, they are TOURNEY PLAYERS.

Of course Riot listens to them, they're the ones who know what balance is in a game that is PVP. And a balanced, competitive game matters when you have such a prominent competitive scene.

How is lol not a mmo?
Massive multiplayer online, over thousands of players playing at same time 5v5.
How is that not massive, and how is that not multiplayer, and its online.


Turbine never listens to almost any feedback the min maxers give here.
They never listen to feedback from players that solo raids.
Turbine never listens to feedback from players that solo epic elite with 1 hand.
Turbine has never listend to advice those players present and advice that could make this game better.

Those players could have some good ideas on how to change the game mechanics to let them have fun as well.
EPIC ELITE, in this game is easy, and some challenge is required for that difficulty.
Noone asked for korthose to have champions with god knows what super powers, all that was asked is to scale up epic elite as a difficulty.

There are 2 options, make it harder or make a new difficulty.
We got the make it harder, lets keep it, idc about extra loot, but dont make it a checkbox, at least not for epic elite.
Balance it for heroic or remove from heroic, but keep it for epic elite.
Epic elite doesnt give better loot anyways, so why would you guys care.
If you cant complete dont play it.
Simple.
But since there ARE people who can complete, that means it is not impossible.
IT means you lack the proper gaming skills to complete and thus you have a reason to look forward on improving yourself.
IF you are offended that you need to improve yourself in a rpg to complete higher difficulty quests, then please do me a favor and install hello kitty and play it til you feel happy.

Weekend players dont understant yet, since they havent played properly, but once you get to the gear check that is easy to get now and build a proper character, epic elite before this update didnt present any challenge at all.
Even now people talk more about it being hard then it actually is.
Epic elite as difficulty should be hard to solo even for the most experienced vet, and not a zerg fest.
More difficulty is required in ddo.

[Springstring]

Well I have posted, some of my thoughts read many others and have come to the conclusion, with everything I hear about the Champions against, and the few that like then which by the way seem to belittle those that don't. Come Monday my stock portfolio will be changing.

I can no longer accept the path the Dev's have taken in this game to make quest to a point only professional gamers can play (lack of a better work), and to get people to buy from the DDO store.

That happened In Wheloon, someone went spawn crazy and now how many people run it more than once.

So as stated I will be selling all my stock in TP's parent company WB. Some of you may think so what, how much can he have ? Well find out Monday, besides I have many friends that listen .

[brian14]

BTW that crown is on an NPC that you don't fight with in that quest, Shadow of a Doubt.

Stained Tusk in Irestone Inlet also wore a crown. Mad Anne did not.

[whispersilk]

First off, thank your for the last several years of DDO. These changes to the game have taken the 'fun' factor away from my gaming experience. I play many different characters that are not all min/maxed and many have been deemed 'unworthy' of the new changes, some unplayable. I have been VIP for many years and found myself cancelling my subscription. I hope some of you enjoy the new changes and DDO continues on, but it will not get support from my pockets.

[Jomee]

Too many champions to normal mob ratio (just a longer, boring encounter) and still haven't got a chest from one.