Monster Champion Feedback

[Dorian]

This sounds like confirmation that the current percentage is probably working correctly. If you felt there were 40 out of 400 normal monsters (plus extra for the higher chance for orange named minibosses), that's precisely 10%, which is only slightly higher than the intended amount.

Anyone that has ran more than 2 quests since the update knows that champions are spawning WAY more than 10%. How are you determining that the 10% setting is working as intended? Player feedback? Statements like this make me have less confidence in the developers.

And you say that 10% is "only slightly higher than the intended amount".... what was the intended amount?

[jalont]

Anyone that has ran more than 2 quests since the update knows that champions are spawning WAY more than 10%. How are you determining that the 10% setting is working as intended? Player feedback? Statements like this make me have less confidence in the developers.

And you say that 10% is "only slightly higher than the intended amount".... what was the intended amount?

I don't think that's true. There's probably a lot of confirmation bias going on. People see 0-1 champion a room for most of the quest, then another room they see four, and they think that the four is the average for all rooms. I'm seeing about ten percent. I'm also not seeing any "one shotting" mobs except very rarely.

There's an incredibly large amount of hyperbole going on in this thread.

[Spoonwelder]

From what I'm taking away most from here is that eh needs some added difficulty as well. Lots of people saying now EE is too hard but EH is too easy. This is something that the devs should look at. Clearly EH needs a difficulty boost.

And EE could definitely STILL use more difficulty as well. 24 hours of this being live and not a single almost failed EE quest. In fact, only a single one shot death for me. Challenge indeed.

Says the fully tuned vet. Try on a less than optimal built and/or geared character on EH at level.

[redoubt]

On elite. 3 man party.

99 kills. 16 champions. 2 orange champs. zero chests.

Wraith with 967 hp.

Wraith with vulnerability to pierce.

[BigPapi]

I've cancelled my VIP because of this. PUGing is dead in this game and it isn't coming back. I don't have the time to dedicate to slogging through every measely quest on on elite when I have a very limited amount of time to dedicate to gaming.
I'll find something better to spend my money on than a game that every once in awhile just randomly drastically changes game play.
I'm sure plently like it, but not me.

[phillymiket]

From what I'm taking away most from here is that eh needs some added difficulty as well. Lots of people saying now EE is too hard but EH is too easy. This is something that the devs should look at. Clearly EH needs a difficulty boost.

And EE could definitely STILL use more difficulty as well. 24 hours of this being live and not a single almost failed EE quest. In fact, only a single one shot death for me. Challenge indeed.

Ya me too. No one-shots (except in new quests) A few deaths for me, but no one-shots.

That's the thing...

Some are saying that Champs are too much, some are saying they hardly notice Champs at all.

What are all these people telling us here?

They are all saying that the gulf between the best of us and those not yet PLed up the wazoo is far, far, far too great at this point.

Champions, while fun for me and you, doesn't solve that.

In fact, it makes it worse, because new people now have a harder time catching up and can't participate anymore with the overwhelming majority of LFMs which are Elite while the Vets can continue the Crazy Train to Demi-god status without issue.

However, Champions added as a new super-elite difficulty level would have better solve the issue of challenging vets without stomping on the undergeared, unguilded, 1st lifers.

[Blackheartox]

I've cancelled my VIP because of this. PUGing is dead in this game and it isn't coming back. I don't have the time to dedicate to slogging through every measely quest on on elite when I have a very limited amount of time to dedicate to gaming.
I'll find something better to spend my money on than a game that every once in awhile just randomly drastically changes game play.
I'm sure plently like it, but not me.

Have fun wherever the winds blows you to.

Try to solo end game raids in wow and report here how it goes

[jalont]

Says the fully tuned vet. Try on a less than optimal built and/or geared character on EH at level.

Erm, this is all being run with random pugs. Only once was more than one person dead, and that was the endfight of Von 1, and I'm not prepared to say that had anything to do with champions because people with old computers often stutter and die there.

Pretty much every EE in the game pugged in the last 24 hours and at no time was more than one person dead, except for once. I'm sorry, this isn't challenging. I'd like to see EE be a challenge for a good group of fully geared and built toons. We're not even at challenging for a semi-flled group of randoms that may or may not be geared.

[BD_]

Got an example of such champion ? Adrenaline, High DC Swash and Warchanter abilities, Shield Bash, Dance, Web, Comet. Or tank it.

I think people got really lazy and complacent since U 23 ( it sure feels like heroics zerg lately, any EE, even underlevel ), with super buff to melee power and prr and mrr introduction. Plus necro 4 quests were trivial compared to for example WGU and Breaking the ranks when Shadowfell came.

There is no mob ( I don't know about new content but as far as I understand, extra damage due to quest mechanics ) that one shots high prr toon. Neither Minotaurs, Elite Vol guard, Shadarkais, Magma Brutes, Ice ellies or other hard hitting mobs.
You get hit for 400- 600 on something like 140 prr.
I think everything can be cced in some way.

It's like EE melee combat before u 23 WITHOUT any prr I would say.

Some champions came close - giant skeles at the end of TOR come to mind as being tougher than most, but no specific example... almost any orange named champion is immune to most CC and insta kills though...

My character could tank EE TO pre U23 (yes it was hard but I could do it) This same character - 3 divine past lives and several pieces of uber/semi uber gear later and post U23 buffs to PRR - has difficulty tanking even the "lowliest" champion mob - yeah I can normally kill them fast, but I can't actually tank them... 400-600 per hit from a "trash" mob is still too much when you compare it to boss mobs and raid boss mobs that hit for the same or lower, and many were hitting me for 800ish (110ish PRR)

Again, I personally did not find them too hard, and I welcome increases in difficulty - just not like this. This isn't really that much harder... just tedious...

I still think that champions (as implemented currently) are "wrong" - in concept/lore - and not fun... Again - Boss mobs are boss mobs for a reason, and random "trash" mobs (random champions) should not be harder than boss mobs - currently almost all champions hit harder than almost all boss mobs... (On EE, I have no experience with champions on HH, HE, or EH - I'll probably run a few quests with appropriate characters on those difficulties and form an opinion on champions in those difficulties later.)

[Blackheartox]

I don't think that's true. There's probably a lot of confirmation bias going on. People see 0-1 champion a room for most of the quest, then another room they see four, and they think that the four is the average for all rooms. I'm seeing about ten percent. I'm also not seeing any "one shotting" mobs except very rarely.

There's an incredibly large amount of hyperbole going on in this thread.

Easiest way to determine percentage would be to do a big sampe of quests and compare number of champ/total kills per quest.
If the number in lets say 100 quests is around 10% then their formula is correct.
Do a quest with 200 spawns, you get per 10% 20 mobs that are champs and you get 3-4 at once in 3-4 fights but ignore the 60 spawns before where you had none.
That is incorrect math.

I doubt they can deremine the distance between champ spawns so that 2-3 dont spawn exactly near other but just the percentage per mob to be a champ or no

[Bogenbroom]

SO... any chance things other than enemies are effecting the generation rate of champions? On a lark I just jumped into Bringing In The Light and there were multiple gamblers (the guys that are neutral and you can't interact with, much less fight) that were champions. That seem... odd.

[Braegan]

From what I've seen so far it seems like there are way too many champs spawning.

When I thought about this when it was first talked about was almost like bringing back that initial feeling of being new and running harbor quests. Fighting oozes and kobolds and then you open a door and BOOM out comes running this big, bad Ogre triple crit smacking the first in line cueing up the *Ding.*

That's what a champ should feel like and with that kind of spawn rate. They should absolutely be deadly and dangerous but in much smaller doses.

I also think the percentage should differ between Hard and Elite. Something like 5% on Hard and 10% on Elite. I know it's supposed to be 10% now, but it really doesn't feel like it.

So yeah, I'd like to see less champs overall, less on Hard vs Elite but make them a bit stronger.

Oh and they should all have something for defeating them, a chest, renown, a cookie, something.

[soreslands]

I LOVE THE CHAMPIONS! finally i cant breeze my way through EE yes they spawn often and hit hard have lots of buffs and are generally ****s. but then again so are we with the over whelming amount of buffs and gear people have its about time for the mobs to start with them as well


there are only 2 things that needs changed is possible the spawn rate but only a little a little bit so you dont have 6 on you at once and possible changing the randomness of buffs (TS apears alot would like to see others)

[Impaqt]

I can appreciate the fact that Turbine wants to add a bit more difficulty to the game, but you have missed the target here. you've effectively ramped the difficulty far past where it was.

For people who really understand the changes over the past couple mods, it has indeed gotten much easier. Unfortunately, these systems are not very newbie friendly either. I've been playing this game for 8+ years and I have no idea how some of these players are getting PRR in excess of 200...

Since the game went Free to play, many things got a lot easier to understand and a lot more new player friendly. AC, PRR, MRR, MeleePower, are NOT new player friendly. Its nice that the little bit that new players get by accident are actually doing something, but its certainly not coming anywhere close to making up for this overly aggressive Champion System.

That being said, Champions are spawning at a higher rate than 10%.

I would suggest lowering the Rate on Hard to 5%

GO ahead and leave elite at "10%", but look at how you are figuring that 10% and really make it 10%. Because right now its 15-20%

Not to the big sticking point.

we have been encourage to run Elite as "norm" since this silly "Bravery Bonus" **** came out.

In order for Pugs to come back, It needs to go away. or at least be heavily modified so doing one quest not on elite doesnt mean the end of the world for the people who are impressed by their own big streak numbers.

[jalont]

I'd have no real problem with lowering the spawn rates... but the truth is that the vast, vast majority of these champions aren't dangerous. They just die/damage like a normal mob. The actual percentage of "dangerous" champions is so low that I'm worried lowering the spawn rate would make them practically nonexistent.

[axel15810]

With these two things in mind, I'd like to see a couple of changes:

1. Give champion mobs a name like Champion Priest of Kurtulmak, give them a unique colored name, and possibly give them a glowing aura or something to help with targeting.

This. They need an aura or some kind of glowing effect on them.

[Spoonwelder]

Erm, this is all being run with random pugs. Only once was more than one person dead, and that was the endfight of Von 1, and I'm not prepared to say that had anything to do with champions because people with old computers often stutter and die there.

Pretty much every EE in the game pugged in the last 24 hours and at no time was more than one person dead, except for once. I'm sorry, this isn't challenging. I'd like to see EE be a challenge for a good group of fully geared and built toons. We're not even at challenging for a semi-flled group of randoms that may or may not be geared.

Bad sample - people willing to join EE quests nowadays are the multi PL mulit ETR fully kitted type so they - as I and others have said will barely notice this difference. I don't take my non-optimal characters into EE - I only have one of those doing more than that takes way too much time. I expect most others are the same - and when they aren't then they usually lead the death count even before this change.

Roll a new character and take him out for a spin without twinking his butt off. See how it runs. If you have a non-maxed out character try him out in some EH content - load in some hires and lock em at the door - swap to a bad destiny then try it again and report back. I have played both ways in the past day - my main had it easy soloing - my other pass through was in a group of non-twinked characters didn't go so well.

That said - I think it is close to being ok but they need to tweek it SOON(tm). Many of the suggestions in this thread are viable from remove from EH to putting timers on spawn to maxing the I Hit harder at 2x etc....as well as double checking the spawn rate as anecdotally it seems too high.

[Blackheartox]

Bad sample - people willing to join EE quests nowadays are the multi PL mulit ETR fully kitted type so they - as I and others have said will barely notice this difference. I don't take my non-optimal characters into EE - I only have one of those doing more than that takes way too much time. I expect most others are the same - and when they aren't then they usually lead the death count even before this change.

Roll a new character and take him out for a spin without twinking his butt off. See how it runs. If you have a non-maxed out character try him out in some EH content - load in some hires and lock em at the door - swap to a bad destiny then try it again and report back. I have played both ways in the past day - my main had it easy soloing - my other pass through was in a group of non-twinked characters didn't go so well.

That said - I think it is close to being ok but they need to tweek it SOON(tm). Many of the suggestions in this thread are viable from remove from EH to putting timers on spawn to maxing the I Hit harder at 2x etc....as well as double checking the spawn rate as anecdotally it seems too high.

That isnt that correct.
When i pug in mornings, i would either solo or put lfm, and i almost never get fully maxed dudes since they dont like playing with me.
What i get are new players, and i usually have no issues explaining what they need to do to be effective i epics.
Im a scumbag but only towards those that deserve it.
Usually im a quite nice person

It differs from time zone, quests to the description in lfm

[BrianConnolly]

I think for newer players Champions are going to be driven from the game. Why not consider a Champion difficulty that is above epic elite that would of course garner more exp. i don't mind the new champions but when 5 out of 6 in a mob are one that is a problem. I had that happen today in a House of Broken Chains. They were hitting around 200 damage. Yesterday in halls of eveningstar they hit another player for 425 on epic hard. That seems more like epic elite territory. I think maybe EN should have 1-3(which currently don't have any), EH 4-6 and EE about 10. I also think that the champion gargoyles in Terminal Delirium are way over powered hitting me once for 5200 slash damage.

[Folker]

I think they hit too hard.