Monster Champion Feedback

[Monkey-Boy]

I agree, but this is what you get when you have a player base absolutely scared of a rebalancing of their power and a bare-bones dev team that doesn't have the resources to rebalance past content.

It's better than the alternative.

No, it's not.

If the game got too easy because the devs buffed some classes too much, those classes should have taken a nerf. I'm sorry, none of this bard/babarian/paladin buffing would have been needed if the broken power of certain splash-builds was addressed. Nerf what's OP, don't buff so much you break the game worse.

If certain systems got too powerful (PRR/MRR, I'm looking at you) for EPICS and the powers that be didn't want to nerf them an across the board 10-20% damage increase IN EPICS would have been better than adding mobs the one-shot people in the harbor.

1,600 HP mobs in level 6 Heroic quests is insane.

Speaking of which what's the most HP anyone has seen on a trash mob so far? We saw a 95,000 HP hill giant in EE Lines of supply, somebody has to have that beat.

[DarthCaedus]

Xp could be an issue.. but if your are "casual" or not geared enough for elite, are you really a powerleveler looking to gain XP as fast as possible?

Favor could always be gotten by going back over level and running the quest for favor. and in Epic content, people often already have max Favor from the heroic run they did.....

shinies? Sorry, there is no real difference in loot between hard and elite.

It is an issue because I believe Turbine made it an issue by giving FAR too many core incentives to running Elite. "XP" being the biggest culprit with the silly "braver Bonus" system.

When they introduced that system, Elite became the new Normal overnight. it was bad for the game back then, and its worse for the game now.

The issue here isnt champions.

the issue is that people feel the NEED to run content over their ability.

My opinion is that it would far better for someone to switch to another game like Neverwinter rather than accept running something on Normal when they used to run it on Elite. There is no reason why someone should just simply accept slower progress and less rewards to make a few people happy.

DDO is a far too grindy game to just run on Normal. It's not worth playing.

[Theolin]

Just ran HIPS on elite,
Last fight all 3 orange names wore crowns & then there was Hazadill the wimp.
Yep champions .... I think the % needs to be toned down on the orange names when there is more than 1 of them, or maybe a max of 1 in a group

[Impaqt]

My opinion is that it would far better for someone to switch to another game like Neverwinter rather than accept running something on Normal when they used to run it on Elite. There is no reason why someone should just simply accept slower progress and less rewards to make a few people happy.

DDO is a far too grindy game to just run on Normal. It's not worth playing.

wow.... really? you have never actually played another MMO have you?

you do realize that with every change they made over the past year that made the game easier, they not once reduced XP or made it more difficult to level. In fact, the XP curve was adjusted so even THAT was easier on TR's.

now turbine introduces a mechanic to bring difficulty back up a notch and this is the reaction?

Sorry. I understand that turbine has almost forced people to believe Elite is normal. but it should not be.

and fact of the matter is that it really does NOT take that much longer to level running hard instead of Elite.

[Monkey-Boy]

*edit* BTW, there is a thread to track Champion %, I encourage you all to post your own stats there if you can track it.

Sorry, stopped playing so I can't add to that thread. Good luck on your endeavor.

[MorningStarSE]

I've been away for about an year and half and last night I've been in a group running through EE content. The Champs was an issue only on the first group we faced, then someone informed us about the champion thing (I read the patch not, but it was the first time getting into these guys), then we adjusted the gameplay.


Few hours later verdict : Compared to the "normal mobs", it is sad they can one shot or two shot you some time but it is not that game breaking. It is a nice addition.

[Monkey-Boy]

I understand that turbine has almost forced people to believe Elite is normal. but it should not be.

and fact of the matter is that it really does NOT take that much longer to level running hard instead of Elite.

Once you've played this game enough that the "thrill" of the adventure is gone the game for many is about character advancement. Characters advance by getting better gear (anyone playing for a few years has all the gear they'll ever need at this point),

The only currency of ANY value in advancing your character is XP. The best course to get the most XP is elite streaking. Can only speak for myself here but when I'm leveling, especially in a build that I don't particularly enjoy that I'm just doing for the PL benefits, I just want to get it over with.

If one was capable of doing this before, in heroics Elite was NEVER as insanely difficult of hard as it was in epics, and one's not capable of doing it now (this is hypothetical BTW as personally I had zero issues adapting to the difficulty) I won't drop to hard or normal where it's boring as hell, I'll leave the game.

[Ayseifn]

wow.... really? you have never actually played another MMO have you?

you do realize that with every change they made over the past year that made the game easier, they not once reduced XP or made it more difficult to level. In fact, the XP curve was adjusted so even THAT was easier on TR's.

now turbine introduces a mechanic to bring difficulty back up a notch and this is the reaction?

Sorry. I understand that turbine has almost forced people to believe Elite is normal. but it should not be.

and fact of the matter is that it really does NOT take that much longer to level running hard instead of Elite.

When bravery first came out I remember a lot of people recommending dropping down to hard at the higher levels because it was too hard to find groups for and was generally faster.

[Impaqt]

When bravery first came out I remember a lot of people recommending dropping down to hard at the higher levels because it was too hard to find groups for and was generally faster.

yes, many people said that.... Especially for epic levels.

I seem to have missed the point.

[minimomo]

now turbine introduces a mechanic to bring difficulty back up a notch and this is the reaction?

yes. keyword being "now".

older players stormed through dungeons in elite and get their pastlives and whatevers easily.

now, they are tr completionists on top of etr completionists.

you party with them, they beat the hell out of things in ee, you keep dying.

what to do? tr and etr to be stronger.

NOW. with champions.

not fun.

not fair.

i quit till champions completely removed from game.

[Impaqt]

Once you've played this game enough that the "thrill" of the adventure is gone the game for many is about character advancement. Characters advance by getting better gear (anyone playing for a few years has all the gear they'll ever need at this point),

The only currency of ANY value in advancing your character is XP. The best course to get the most XP is elite streaking. Can only speak for myself here but when I'm leveling, especially in a build that I don't particularly enjoy that I'm just doing for the PL benefits, I just want to get it over with.

If one was capable of doing this before, in heroics Elite was NEVER as insanely difficult of hard as it was in epics, and one's not capable of doing it now (this is hypothetical BTW as personally I had zero issues adapting to the difficulty) I won't drop to hard or normal where it's boring as hell, I'll leave the game.

wait. 2 posts ago you said you were not playing anymore... Now you've adapted to the new difficulties?

[Powerhungry]

Heroic quests have been balanced (relatively). They have orange and red named bosses for a reason - to present a greater challenge. New player play in heroics. They see and orange and get worried. They see a red and settle in for a fight. That's what the CR level of the quest is for. By adding champions in heroics, it dramatically skews that CR rating to an undetermined inflated number. I ran Tangleroot third quest on HE (kill the 3 war leaders and take their plans). All three war leaders (already orange named) were champions. The first group of mobs (8 kills) - 2 were champions. Over 25% of the total were champions including every orange named.
Then I ran the fourth in the Tangleroot chain (destroy Whisperdooms eggs)(optional to kill the 3 daughters). All three (already orange named daughters) were champions. The main throne room had 2 cleric2, 2 warriors and one daughter - of those 5 mobs, one warrior, both clerics and the daughter were all champions.
Please remove champions from heroic levels. The quests were balanced.
Epics were not balanced and never have been. Leave the champions in epics where damage scaling is crazy anyways.

BTW- I was soloing the Tangleroot quests on an at level poorly equipped monk. Stunning fist and tripping can only go so far.....

[Saekee]

I am curious if the optionals on certain quests like Overgrowth are even doable--anyone succeed there for example? It already took a specialized build to rid all those mobs in under 25 seconds--with champs in there now...

[Monkey-Boy]

wait. 2 posts ago you said you were not playing anymore... Now you've adapted to the new difficulties?

I adapted then quit.

I have no issues handling the champions, the game just isn't as fun anymore. It was barely fun enough to continue playing with no end-game, this was the straw that broke the camel.

[Connman]

Would it be feasible to add to the intro quest some champions that spawn on purpose with static buffs to make champions part of the introduction.

You know with the whole DM saying "Look this monster is a champion you can tell..."

Just so that people are introduced right away, and know what to expect.

thanks and have a great day.

[cyreme]

It's been a few days of playing and here are some new observations:
As previously said champions are a great idea badly implemented. I started playing this game shortly after update 6 I think and over the years I must have invested over 2 grand into this game, which I do not regret btw. I have seen a lot of changes. I remember the days when epic was epic and required dedication and teamwork to complete even one quest. This change may have a greater effect on this game than MoTU and I am afraid it will not be a positive effect. As I slice through another mob of champions (5 out of 8 in this particular mob happened to be champions) it occurs to me that most new people will simply give up when faced with those kind of odds. And I like new people. I think this game could use some fresh blood. In one of my other runs at end fight I subconsciously ignored the boss in order to take down two champions. I laughed when I realized how different my threat assessment was. As yet another chest with useless vendor trash pops inside the wall I wonder what will happen to the DDO community if this is allowed to stay as is. Funny because I am a solo artist most of the time. I will still steamroll the content on my 19th life, champions notwithstanding. I have the skill and experience dating back to 2009. But I remember myself as a noob. Many so-called "vets" seemed to have forgotten that. I hope that devs will listen to reason. Listen to people who care about this game and invest in in. To all new people who are frustrated I imagine, please never mind a few arrogant pricks pretending to be vets on this board. These faux "vets" think they own the game because they were gifted with a +11 item of Sovereign Butt Kicking by the DDO gods. Don't pay attention to these socially challenged 13 year olds who suddenly feel powerful and forget that this game is also about having fun together. Not all vets are the same. I think there are still enough of us out there to make a difference. Consider this, new people and please stay.

[minimomo]

i think they should make a new server and call it champions and whoever freaking in love with champions should go there and play there...

then it will be fair. yeah! hardcorest badassest ultra skilled players starting from scratch! go! go! go! old ddo was too easy?

go that server!

but me, i want my old game... dont freaking kill it! dont!

i didnt quit even tho krappy graphics and played my old game.

i didnt quit when diablo came out or rift. didnt even try them cuz i liked my "old" ddo.

dont kill it!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I am curious if the optionals on certain quests like Overgrowth are even doable--anyone succeed there for example? It already took a specialized build to rid all those mobs in under 25 seconds--with champs in there now...

Good point.

And why I have always said they should never do across the board changes to the quests.


Another valid point would be Snowy Korthos and brand new players.


So far, I like Champions.
But I am sure there are many quests that they would not be appropriate in.

(for example, how are those one-hit-wonder-champions messing up Threnal?)

[nibel]

Elite should be hard, and the risk of death on Elite should be there... people have become soft...

I totally agree. I miss the times where running normal was the norm, hard was for guild runs, or challenges, and elite was, like, TOUGH. To the point that sometimes you could come back 10 levels over the quest and still can't sleepwalk through them.

Yesterday I just TRed into an iconic life, and without taking any items from the bank, beyond my blur bracers and conc-opp GS, I opened a LFM doing full Gianthold saga. At 15. With no potions besides the 30 starter on iconics. Playing a pure SDK tempest ranger wielding risk & reward while having IC: Slash.

Some people send me tells saying they were saving the level 14 ones for when they leveled to 16 (I leave the LFM to max 15, for bravery on side quests). Still got a full party, all quests were completed (including tor dragons). We got a few deaths here and there, but not even ONE wipe.

My veredict: The cry about heroic champions is too much bark and not enough bite. The really dangerous ones where the Magic Missile casters and the ones with fire shield, because of the same reason Shiradi Spammer is an efficient build. But not even once I died from being one-shot.

[DarthCaedus]

wait. 2 posts ago you said you were not playing anymore... Now you've adapted to the new difficulties?

He is probably like many people I know that are planning to quit if this change sticks, but waiting to see before taking action.