Monster Champion Feedback

[Yli]

I really like them. They make the old quests feel new again, and we can't just mindlessly zerg haphazardly through these quests. I ran a bunch of level 2 and 3 quests today on elite, a few on hard. The champions mostly seemed reasonable. I do think there should be a cap as to how many spawn at a time. Also, it seems like every now and then, I run into one that is just way super-powered. We found a wolf in waterworks with ~1000hp. It also hit very hard (45-80) and took down two party members before we killed it. This was a strong party and I think it would have wiped some weaker parties. I think it's reasonable for a random mob to be a threat to a single toon maybe two, but shouldn't be a threat to a whole party. Just my two cents; all in all, I'm happy for the new challenges.

[BD_]

I don't know what happened either as I never experienced anything like some are saying here on Lama. I wont dismiss that its possible that Champions are probably a little wonky when updating over to Live. I mean, we have epic mobs in heroic Orchard still but die like heroic mobs. ive run many quests from 15-19 and still not seeing these high damage numbers or insanely high mob hp numbers. every chance I get to hard target a Champion in my group before its killed too quickly I check their hp if I have it unlocked and check their buffs. im seeing mobs with hp maybe a couple K higher than trash mobs and the damage they deal isn't too hard. I ran elite Weapons Shipment with a group and I was attacked by a couple Champions continuously at once with the waves and got dangerously low on health but never died. caster in the group was dancing them with trash mobs and using some kind of AOE acid practically insta killing them. orange names in quests don't feel any different to me either.

I feel like the guy that says there is no lag in DDO.

From what I've seen, most reports of excessive damage are on low level quests and on EE quests. I've only personally played EE since the update, but it based on what I've read in the forums most people playing EH and about level 10-19 seem be seeing lots of champion mobs, but with most of them being barely harder than normal mobs, while those in lower level quests and in EE are reporting very high damage from champions in addition to a high number of them.

[Kawai]

jabber jabber jabber...Your by join date sort of sounds like one of those "newer players are second class players", or "if you can't remember when we had to walk uphill both ways to play..." arguments...

& u sound like someone upset with that vote. :P

ironic. huh?

[Kawai]

Four of us ran some EH & EE's tonight. was frikking blast. Luv new pack.

Have SOoo many things need to get done @other toons, but could NOT break away to switch.

rating Champz a full Two Woots/2

[Braegan]

3) Korthos should not have champions, I argue, since it is a "starter" area where new players learn how to play. At least, let there be no more than 1 champion per quest in this area.

4) Ooze enemies should not be eligible to be champions. They're not even intelligent, and their unique attributes make them difficult foes already, at least in groups.

I will agree to that absolutely. Korthos should be a "kids gloves" on area. Remove them from there.

Oozes should be Champs as much as the rest, what if it's a really big ooze lived a fat life off adventurers.

Really these champs should be called Paragon as that is a template in 3.5 pnp. And anything can be a Paragon.

[BD_]

& u sound like someone upset with that vote. :P

ironic. huh?

Sounds like someone's taking my statements out of context....

Go look for the number of posters that say they like champions but give no caveat whatsoever...

[Yli]

Also, it looks like they have some interesting shortcomings. Their saving throws don't seem to be any better than a regular mob. I was routinely tripping them (and my toon is definitely NOT specced for trip), and our Paladin turned the undead champions just like everything else. I also once saw a kobold champion taking purple damage from fire, which confused me. Maybe some of them have special vulnerabilities? Anyone know more on that?

[BD_]

Also, it looks like they have some interesting shortcomings. Their saving throws don't seem to be any better than a regular mob. I was routinely tripping them (and my toon is definitely NOT specced for trip), and our Paladin turned the undead champions just like everything else. I also once saw a kobold champion taking purple damage from fire, which confused me. Maybe some of them have special vulnerabilities? Anyone know more on that?

There have been reports of stunning blow landing 100% of the time on everything - maybe trip and some other things also got bugged...

[Kawai]

Sounds like someone's taking my statements out of context....

Go look for the number of posters that say they like champions but give no caveat whatsoever...

if no caveat, then they deff ain't on swaying anything towards "Wahhhhhh nerf it".
-thus, if no opinion, won't matter, will it.

Champs r here to stay, & dun worry, they'll adjust them 4u soon enough.

[bennyson]

I just took my best character (level 28 pure Paladin Sacred Knight Vanguard) into the Butcher's Path on Elite to see if I could get one-shotted with the 850 shock damage reported to be done by Kobold Shamans. (this is on December 12th on Friday, 2014, 10:07 PM GMT)

Went into Butcher's Path on Elite, buffed, killed all kobolds until I found a Champion, Kobold Shaman.

I let it curse me, and its Lightning Bolts were pathetic, dealing no damage to me what so ever.

Then I removed his gear down to being naked and unarmed, reaching 0 MRR and had only a 20 Reflex (due to Bestow Curse) and removed his buffs with Dispel Magic.

Was getting hit for around 20 to 30 points of damage via Lightning Bolts due to saving throws, then I got hit for 60 after rolling a 1.

Repeated everything above.

I wish I could post a screen shot for more rock-solid feedback, but I do not know if there is a trusted site where I can do so.

However, after experiencing this, I have come to a semi-conclusion that people are either lining about the damage a Champion Kobold Shaman is doing or they are encountering Bugged-Beyond-Recognition Champions.

[Springstring]

Love it! Don't change a thing.

Ran all the quests yesterday on EE + EE Haunted Halls, sure a few times some members died but over all love the champions......don't cave in to the charlie casuals there are lower difficulty settings the can choose

sure if you don't have a life and all you do is play DDO but for the more casual of use that play 5 champions in a mod encounter that can one shot 1200 hp something is not right

[krimsonrane]

I'm no superuberduper complaining about how easy EE is. After 6 years of playing I'm no noob either.
Usually I run an elite streak at level, solo or duo all the time and that was enough challenge for me.

I would have been ok with 2-3 champions a quest, but 2-3 a mob is ridiculous. And they all have adrenalin? Are you kidding?
To be honest I'd rather not play than drop down to a hard streak with 70% of the content being one shotted.

[Connman]

Your by join date sort of sounds like one of those "newer players are second class players", or "if you can't remember when we had to walk uphill both ways to play..." arguments...

I really feel like you are reading way!!! more into "counts posts and write down dates." it sounds to me like you want me to say that so you can invalidate simple math. most posters are from the era when the game went F2P.

And honestly I don't think you read my title about totally inaccurate or the part where i said most posts were in the middle.
I would be willing to bet half the dates are wrong anyway lol.

[Springstring]

Once again DDO in their infinite wisdoms has seen fit to make most melee expendable.

Ran an EH Cable solo in one mod of 8, 6 were champions, and hit like Godzilla, all this has done is make it not fun to play melee, but I can see casters love it, the now become the class to play,

Really the only ones I have read (and yes I have not read them all ) it's caster that like the new champion update, melee even in heavy armor over 200 fort, over 150 PPR and blocking getting one shot for 1654, tells me something is not right,

At the same time they **** the pally holy sword back and boost monsters, scratching my head where in name did that idea come from, oh let me guess casters whining that the pally got more kills than I did.

I do understand updating making it a bit more fun, more of a challenge, but serious, when you run into a mod and I mean a mob (mad-stone for example) the monsters game out of the cave and every one of them were a champion, it was that way for 3 waves, and to add insult to injury not one of them gave a chest.

Serious is DDO trying to go under? I like a challenge, I enjoy the game but it is getting out of hand, bring in more content, stop messing with what is good.

I full expect like everything else some will agree some will disagree some will, bad mouth me and DDO will just do what they want to do.

Will this stop me from playing probably not, but it sure will stop me from buying TP points. Face it they only leverage we have is to hit them in the pocket.

[Kawai]

Once again DDO in their infinite wisdoms has seen fit to make most melee expendable.

Melee are NOT expendable.

there's boxes to break & stuff.

psssshhh

[Springstring]

I just took my best character (level 28 pure Paladin Sacred Knight Vanguard) into the Butcher's Path on Elite to see if I could get one-shotted with the 850 shock damage reported to be done by Kobold Shamans. (this is on December 12th on Friday, 2014, 10:07 PM GMT)

Went into Butcher's Path on Elite, buffed, killed all kobolds until I found a Champion, Kobold Shaman.

I let it curse me, and its Lightning Bolts were pathetic, dealing no damage to me what so ever.

Then I removed his gear down to being naked and unarmed, reaching 0 MRR and had only a 20 Reflex (due to Bestow Curse) and removed his buffs with Dispel Magic.

Was getting hit for around 20 to 30 points of damage via Lightning Bolts due to saving throws, then I got hit for 60 after rolling a 1.

Repeated everything above.

I wish I could post a screen shot for more rock-solid feedback, but I do not know if there is a trusted site where I can do so.

However, after experiencing this, I have come to a semi-conclusion that people are either lining about the damage a Champion Kobold Shaman is doing or they are encountering Bugged-Beyond-Recognition Champions.

Oh and read one most are talking about at lever DA, you took a 28 to a 4th level quest, wow that makes you ubber, trying it at level yes they may exaggerate the damage but one shot is one shot, Run a quest at your level and then open your mouth other than to call other liars

[Springstring]

Melee are NOT expendable.

there's boxes to break & stuff.

psssshhh

oh forgot that 1/2 Orc good a breaking boxes, but until they fix the issues, why even play a fighter,

[DANTEIL]

So here is a champion-related question…


How do you 'Examine" the champions to see what buffs they have? I try to click on the little gear thing on the focus orb when I have a champion targeted, but all it does it show the tooltip "EXAMINE" and nothing happens. Is there another way to do it? I'm on a Mac, if that matters.

[Oliphant]

I lack enough experience w/ champs to add much yet. Still love the basic idea and I see the conversation significantly less one sided compared to yesterday.

[Peter_Stauffenberg]

I think having champions in the game could add something to many quests. So I'm not against the idea, but the implementation could be improved quite a bit.

1. The spawn rate seems to be too high and scaling to the number of players and character level doesn't seem to be right.

Some of the buffs the champions get at lower heroic level is something even red named bosses don't have. So the buffs the champions get should be scaled based upon the base level of the quest.

2. The spawn rate of champions should have some kind of ceiling per battle area. Like 1-2 on hard and 2-3 on elite. Once you hit the ceiling then the spawn chance should drop to 0%. This way you don't get swarmed by champions if you're unlucky.

Many players short man heroic quests on elite (at least up to level 16) because it's not that easy to fill groups anymore. Especialy if you're living in a time zone different from the US zones. With the introduction of champions you might not be able to do that anymore. People are doing quite a lot of quests on elite because of the favor, Coin lords inventory slots, house K bank slots, Silver flame pots, Purple Dragon Knights crafting etc.

3. Maybe it's better to introduce a new difficulty level e. g. called Nightmare (heroic and epic). If you select that difficulty you get champions. Then you could have a new favor you can collect like Prestige. It's the same amount per quest as elite favor, but is added in a separate variable. Once you get past a certain threshold you get a bonus. Like a bronze star before your name for 1000 prestige, silver star for 2000 prestige, gold star for 3000 prestige, purple star for 4000 prestige etc. Or you can change the color of your wings dependent upon the prestige level.

This way you don't change anything for people who want to play as is (U23 and earlier). Those who want the extra challenge can pick nightmare difficulty and earn prestige points.

4. If you want nightmare quests to really pay off then you should give bonus XP for each champion killed (at least orange or red named champions). Chests from champions should have a chance to spawn end reward loot. So if you want to increase your chance for named loot you pick nightmare difficulty and hope you get some named champions.

5. The spawn rate could be something like this.
Common monster: Hard: 2%, Elite: 4%
Orange boss: Hard: 5%, Elite 10%
Red boss: Hard 8%, Elite 15%

6. If that is too much work then you should be able to set a check mark for champions when you create a LFM or enter a quest. Similar to public quest vs private quest. This way it becomes an option for those who want to run with the extra challenge.