Monster Champion Feedback

[S3R3N1T7]

champion is **** and the result is lot of player leave the game or become casual player.

it's a fact

[lyrecono]

So this discussion is still around?

If people are so opposed to them, why not petition to make champions optional?
A simple check-box on the quest panel should be easy enough to make, maybe a flag on the LFM.
This way the "i don't wanne get of my ubergeared, triple heroic/epic/iconic completionist toon" crowd can have their cake and eat it too, while the more normal people can enjoy the game as it was intended.

I never understood that crowd anyway, for the last few years all turbine has done is increase nummbers, bigger hitpoints, bigger saves, bigger spell ressistance, bigger dps output, etc on mobs
instead of , for example, working on the AI, mobs that use actual tactics would be so much scarier(=harder) then what we have now.
Now we just play the inflating numbers game.....

Oh wel....
If Turbine doesn't want to do that, you could always create another Wayfinder Bridge Occupation to generate enough media attention.

Problem solved.....i hope.

As for this topic, i had 2 people ragequit on me during a run of marketplace quests (at lv), This after a few deaths by champions, i guess they couldn't appreciate getting swarmed by "king halflings".

[grandeibra]

champion is **** and the result is lot of player leave the game or become casual player.

it's a fact

I'd say champions are da **** - the best "new" addition to DDO in ages. I brings a little bit of randomness to keep you on your toes when you do a quest for the umpteenth time. Dying is fun. For those who don't like em/challenge there is always difficulty setting normal.

That said - I agree with poster above that champions should never be stronger than the main boss, which actually happens often with champion mini-bosses

[OverlordOfRats]

\snip

If people are so opposed to them, why not petition to make champions optional?
A simple check-box on the quest panel should be easy enough to make, maybe a flag on the LFM.
/snip

Several people including myself did suggest this. They were often meet with "Just run normal if you don't like them." (See above post)

The problem with that is favor. I am talking about for the houses, not for the free TPs.

House Cannith - 50 for the Mark of House Cannith for Cannith crafting. Total favor 248. Divide by 3 = 82 - Pass
Silver Flame - 400 for the Mark of The Silver Flame for Cannith crafting. Total favor 567. Divide by 3 = 189 - Fail
Purple Dragon Knights - 125 for the Key to The City. Total favor 639. Divide by 3 = 213 - Pass
House Phiarian - 150 for the Phiarian Pendent of Time. Total favor 375. Divide by 3 = 125 - Fail
House Kundarak - 150 for 2nd bank space. Total favor 342. Divide by 3 = 114 - Fail
House Deneith - 150 for sturdy arrows and the 2nd quiver. Total favor 318. Divide by 3 = 106 - Fail
The Coin Lords - 150 for 2nd backpack space. Total favor 608. Divide by 3 = 202 - Pass
The Free Agents - 150 for all the vials for trap making. Total favor 651. Divide by 3 = 217 - Pass

[Krelar]

Several people including myself did suggest this. They were often meet with "Just run normal if you don't like them." (See above post)

The problem with that is favor. I am talking about for the houses, not for the free TPs.

House Cannith - 50 for the Mark of House Cannith for Cannith crafting. Total favor 248. Divide by 3 = 82 - Pass
Silver Flame - 400 for the Mark of The Silver Flame for Cannith crafting. Total favor 567. Divide by 3 = 189 - Fail
Purple Dragon Knights - 125 for the Key to The City. Total favor 639. Divide by 3 = 213 - Pass
House Phiarian - 150 for the Phiarian Pendent of Time. Total favor 375. Divide by 3 = 125 - Fail
House Kundarak - 150 for 2nd bank space. Total favor 342. Divide by 3 = 114 - Fail
House Deneith - 150 for sturdy arrows and the 2nd quiver. Total favor 318. Divide by 3 = 106 - Fail
The Coin Lords - 150 for 2nd backpack space. Total favor 608. Divide by 3 = 202 - Pass
The Free Agents - 150 for all the vials for trap making. Total favor 651. Divide by 3 = 217 - Pass

Go back and run some of those quests on Elite once you're overleveled enough that the champions don't matter?

[DevilYouKnow]

Go back and run some of those quests on Elite once you're overleveled enough that the champions don't matter?

What about bravery bonus ?

[Impaqt]

What about bravery bonus ?

What about it?

The very nature of its name indicates that its a BONUS for being BRAVE. If you are scared to face Elite champions, you dont get the bonus for doing elite the first time.

[Axeyu]

Several people including myself did suggest this. They were often meet with "Just run normal if you don't like them." (See above post)

The problem with that is favor. I am talking about for the houses, not for the free TPs.

House Cannith - 50 for the Mark of House Cannith for Cannith crafting. Total favor 248. Divide by 3 = 82 - Pass
Silver Flame - 400 for the Mark of The Silver Flame for Cannith crafting. Total favor 567. Divide by 3 = 189 - Fail
Purple Dragon Knights - 125 for the Key to The City. Total favor 639. Divide by 3 = 213 - Pass
House Phiarian - 150 for the Phiarian Pendent of Time. Total favor 375. Divide by 3 = 125 - Fail
House Kundarak - 150 for 2nd bank space. Total favor 342. Divide by 3 = 114 - Fail
House Deneith - 150 for sturdy arrows and the 2nd quiver. Total favor 318. Divide by 3 = 106 - Fail
The Coin Lords - 150 for 2nd backpack space. Total favor 608. Divide by 3 = 202 - Pass
The Free Agents - 150 for all the vials for trap making. Total favor 651. Divide by 3 = 217 - Pass

I don't see the problem. Just because a reward exist doesn't mean that everyone should be automatically entitled to it.

[Annex]

I am starting to make peace with the Monster Champion system, but still feel a toggle would really help many players find the right difficulty.

The experience point weekend lured me back to play for two solid days and I have some observations:

Bad Points:
1) Mysterious Remnants decay too quickly. This becomes especially problematic in dungeons like Xorian Cipher where the team must split up for protracted periods of time. If Team 1 defeats a Champion that drops a Mysterious Remnant, Team 2 sometimes cannot reach the spot quickly enough to get credit. Monster Champion chests apparently last much longer, so I suggest putting the normal (non-chest) Mysterious Remnant drops into a little chest. Looting a little chest would award the same number of Mysterious Remnants as a dropped coin under the current system and nothing else.
2) I find Mysterious Remnant coins difficult to see.
3) The algorithm for adding Monster Champions produces very lumpy output. Monster Champions obviously exist to produce difficulty spikes, but spike amplitude needs adjustment. For example, I ran a Xorian Cipher with three red named Monster Champion skeletons in the right path room. Not long after, in Faithful Departed, I opened the door into a Venerated chamber to see 4 or 5 Monster Champions including the red named scorrow. I suggest adding a new counter that starts when a Monster Champion spawns. The counter runs from 1 to x, increments each time a monster spawns, and while active, suppresses Monster Champion creation. Also adjust the spawn rate such that dungeons produce the exact same overall number of Monster Champions as under the current system. Use x=4 for a Hard dungeon and x=2 for an Elite one. The counter automatically expires if a Monster Champion does not spawn for 5 seconds.
4) I doubt Monster Champions challenge very powerful characters, especially those with high physical resistance or strong ranged attacks. I suggest adding a counter that adds up the total number of Past Life Feats for all characters currently in the dungeon. For every X feats, bump up the power of spawning Monster Champions. If using suggestion (3) above, reduce x by one per increment. In this way, spike difficulty scales based on a direct measure of character power. Do not increase treasure drops in compensation.
5) Mysterious Remnants drop at very low rates. In two long days of Heroic Hard play I picked up about 100 Mysterious Remnants. At that rate, it will take 100 long days of play for a 5,000 point reward. (I intend to conduct an experiment today to see if I can speed that up.)

Good Points:
1) Monster Champions definitely add excitement for less powerful/first life melee characters.
2) I did not experience any one shots in two solid days of play.
3) I felt the drop rate on Monster Champion chests was reasonable. I believe I saw 5 in two long days of play.

[S3R3N1T7]

i understand you moint of view but you don't say :

1) your build
2) how many life you have (tr and etr)

how many player in group and same information

because if you are with a group a completionist runner i think you can't understand player who begin ddo with no completion or /and no best equipement at lvl

and if you will be one shooted you understand the frustration of many player who leave the game
the real problem is for me the extra domage combo who can oneshoot player.


and i don't think it's good thing champion exist because they are stupidely implemented and the result was many player leave ddo or ragequite in quest.
Or like me pleas on casual now only for help freind and i think i will finish quite this game because with champion i becaume dislike this game !!!
It's not my only point of view many friend quitte ddo and guildy too this is a fact

[Dakit]

As a new player (well returning player), but long enough to be new, I really like the champions. It adds difficulty, all too often without them it's too easy. The only thing I wish was that all the named enemies where champions, to make them stand out from the "normal" enemies.

Of course I play 50% of the time in a group so the more difficult the better, IMO. Though i would prefer more HP on the mobs then higher damage output to heal/tank.

[S3R3N1T7]

As a new player (well returning player), but long enough to be new, I really like the champions. It adds difficulty, all too often without them it's too easy. The only thing I wish was that all the named enemies where champions, to make them stand out from the "normal" enemies.

Of course I play 50% of the time in a group so the more difficult the better, IMO. Though i would prefer more HP on the mobs then higher damage output to heal/tank.

lol
question:
Are you completionist?
If not how many life?
what is your build ?
Do you play quest at lvl or overlvl ?

with this we can understand you but i think you are not new player and have strong build and equipement

[eachna_gislin]

Whilst I like the concept of champions, just putting an arbitrary buff on champions without looking into what mobs are going to end up being champions is wrong. There should never be a case of coming across a champion that is harder to defeat than the boss of the quest, especially when they don't drop anything worth the hassle of fighting them. Another point of annoyance is the Remnants, why can't they just go straight to inventory like shards of tokens do? In short a decent idea, poorly implemented.

I agree with this, and it's sadly the case (that champions are harder than named mobs).

Champions, even in heroics have a version of epic-style warding specific to their build (ie: fleshies have deathward, undead have turnward, etc.). Arbitrary buffs are what the devs do. Rather than fix anything, they just break it further.

Champions can hit for unreasonable amounts on damage. Every champion _is_ spike damage, pretty much every hit.

I ran upper Sorrowdusk earlier today and the champion mephits were hitting for 2000 points of damage. It's a level 10 (on elite) quest. How am I supposed to get enough PRR to mitigate 2000-point hits on a level 12 toon without a lot of epic lives? That's 10x my toon's hit points.

I was just trying to get D favor and farm up a Mummified Bat. I figured being two levels over the level of the quest wouldn't be unreasonable.

[eachna_gislin]

As a new player (well returning player), but long enough to be new, I really like the champions. It adds difficulty, all too often without them it's too easy. The only thing I wish was that all the named enemies where champions, to make them stand out from the "normal" enemies.

Of course I play 50% of the time in a group so the more difficult the better, IMO. Though i would prefer more HP on the mobs then higher damage output to heal/tank.

They could get rid of champions and scale damage *down* and restore DC casting so options like crowd control and targeting/pulling are viable, and the game would still be challenging. In fact, it would be more challenging because you would have to calculate more than how much damage per swing you do to be a good player.

[archerforever]

Please add an option to choose the % of champions in the quest betweeen 6% to 100% !!!

Yes i want to fight many or ONLY champions to have fun and challenge in EE ^^

[Lence]

Please add an option to choose the % of champions in the quest betweeen 6% to 100% !!!

0%-100% would prolly make everyone happy. Scale at your own risk/level of game.

[Basura_Grande]

0%-100% would prolly make everyone happy. Scale at your own risk/level of game.

Hate champions, but I like some of the rewards. I like this idea, if I want to farm champion chunks I have that option or I can ignore them and pretends they don't exist.

[slarden]

0%-100% would prolly make everyone happy. Scale at your own risk/level of game.

This makes the most sense and gives reward for more risk. If you opt 0% you miss out on champion rewards which are signficant.

If you opt 100% you get more challenge and more rewards.

[S3R3N1T7]

give option champion on/off

and all player will be happy !!!

but they never do because i think more 80% player will play with no champion ^^ and they refuse accept this fact

(en français ... cachez moi ce sein que je ne saurai voir lol )

[Braegan]

People are still having problems with champs 11 months later?

Thanks, I needed a good laugh today.