Confirmation of Nerf to Holy Sword

[SpiderPig]

Can I get a confirmation that the Holy Sword spell is being changed please?


As the lamannia Server still won't let me log in, I cannot confirm this myself.

[thomascoolone64]

They are Removing the +1[W] and leaving the Critical Multiplier on it

[BDog77]

They are Removing the +1[W] and leaving the Critical Multiplier on it

This is incorrect. At least on the Lamma build that is up right now, there has been NO change to Holy Sword, nor is there any mention of a change in the release notes.

[Infiltraitor]

They are Removing the +1[W] and leaving the Critical Multiplier on it

It is about time. Removing the [W] absolutely needs to happen. Possibly remove the +2 Enchantment bonus as well.

[Sublimemind]

It is about time. Removing the [W] absolutely needs to happen. Possibly remove the +2 Enchantment bonus as well.

Very short sighted. What will pallys have when the quests get tough and the level cap goes up ? I think the spell should rise in power as you level with +1/2 w the + 3/4 then +1 w possibly more as lvl's go up. this should have been done from the start as they well knew it was op to start with. But they used it as a gimmick. Never trust turbine unless you understand their ability to manipulate its player base for profit.

[fmalfeas]

You know, Paladins have always been nigh-immortal. DPS was always their issue. They didn't die, even when everyone else was flattened, but if there was basically *any* mob healing going on, they couldn't kill the bosses unless they built in such a way that they gave up almost all of their durability.

Holy Sword gave them a means to have some DPS, including outside of Chalice. Is it too much? Perhaps, with certain weapons. But just scaling the spell instead of stripping it down seems far wiser to me, unless the goal is to have them go back to 'immortal pseudo-piker'. It's the most powerful spell they get, so it has to remain viable in epic. Now, in tabletop, it just set the weapon to +5 and holy. That's obviously not gonna cut it in DDO, though in tabletop that's incredibly powerful. Like...terrifyingly powerful, in fact. (In a non-Monty Haul tabletop game, at level 14, the odds of there being even one +5 weapon in the party is basically nil. A +5 /Holy/ weapon, which is one of the rarest enchantments is even more unlikely. So a Paladin being able to pick up basically any weapon he finds and turn it into a +5 Holy weapon is roughly on par with Limited Wish in terms of balance. Due to the nature of DDO, obviously Holy Sword has to be comparatively more powerful than that.)

I'd say the scaling should be along the lines of CL 14 - +.5[w], +1 threat range. CL 16 - +.5[w], +1 threat range and multiplier. CL 18 - +.75[w], +1 threat and multiplier. CL 20 - +1[w], +1 threat and multiplier.

Yes, I did intentionally leave out the +2 enhancement bonus. Why? Because frankly I rather dislike it. Just because of Celestia, which still freaks out if you add the Magic flag to it.

And people, if you look at the 'class rankings' survey, the devs have been buffing the classes in order from 'worst' up. First Bard, then Paladin, now Barbarian. If that continues, next will be Rogue, then Fighter. So comparing Paladin DPS to other classes that haven't had the buff pass hit them yet doesn't quite work. The Devs appear to be preparing the game for the eventual level 30 cap. Give them some time to finish the work. There's been significant rebalancing going on, and I strongly suspect we haven't seen the end of it.

[shinsirhc]

why would you want to nerf the holy sword? its a spell and you need 14 levels to get it. That's the only thing that makes a paladin worth going for. They don't have enhancements like barbarian and fighter that increases their threat range.

Try playing a paladin without holy sword and see how weak they are.

[Dalsheel]

why would you want to nerf the holy sword? its a spell and you need 14 levels to get it. That's the only thing that makes a paladin worth going for. They don't have enhancements like barbarian and fighter that increases their threat range.

Try playing a paladin without holy sword and see how weak they are.

OFF TOPIC

You mention that an ability that needs 14 levels in a class should be useful and powerful at any level of the game. I agree. Completely.

Can we have a useful Quivering Palm again then? It's a lvl15 monk ability. Not something you get with any kind of *splash*.

tyvm.

[shinsirhc]

OFF TOPIC

You mention that an ability that needs 14 levels in a class should be useful and powerful at any level of the game. I agree. Completely.

Can we have a useful Quivering Palm again then? It's a lvl15 monk ability. Not something you get with any kind of *splash*.

tyvm.

Paladins have been a weak class since i started playing this game, now that they have a means to be better people want to nerf them.

Even without that Quivering Palm monks are still powerful compared to paladin. paladin without holy sword is just plain weak.

[Cordovan]

This is incorrect. At least on the Lamma build that is up right now, there has been NO change to Holy Sword, nor is there any mention of a change in the release notes.

The change did not make it into the build currently on Lamannia, but is expected to be in Update 24 when it is released this week. Holy Sword will no longer provide +1(W), and the added enhancement bonus is being reduced from +2 to +1.

[Vanhooger]

Time to reroll, fastest nerf ever, paladin back where they was for 6 years. At least I had fun for few week.

What about fixing first the most currently broked build ever aka wolf 2wf + swf + natural fighting feat and orb blocking while attacking?? Any chance?

What about fixing the maximize discount of archmage that stack with Fvs maximize? Those shiradi runnng with only +1sp on maximize is that WAI???

Not to mention Bard are far away more dps then Paladin & any other class. What about them too?

As usual nobody will ever answer.

[Greggers72]

The change did not make it into the build currently on Lamannia, but is expected to be in Update 24 when it is released this week. Holy Sword will no longer provide +1(W), and the added enhancement bonus is being reduced from +2 to +1.

This has to be the dumbest thing I have heard so far in 9 years of playing this game... why? what is the justification for it? It is one thing to nerf an ability like Holy Sword or Quivering Palm for Monks, it is something else altogether when the Dev's nerf one ability for one class and yet blithely introduce an insta kill effect like Coup De Grace. Are you seriously saying that holy sword is so over powered that it unbalances one class and yet swashbuckling doesn't over power bards? Incidentally I'm not complaining about bards and swashbuckling, just drawing a comparison here....

Yet again, the dev's show scant regard for players by singling out one ability that even as it stands is not especially over powered when compared to other abilities like Coup De Grace for example.... surely Holy Sowrd pales into insignificance when compared to an insta kill effect whose DC can easily be in the 90+range without any great effort

Disappointed yet again in the dev's....

[Infiltraitor]

The change did not make it into the build currently on Lamannia, but is expected to be in Update 24 when it is released this week. Holy Sword will no longer provide +1(W), and the added enhancement bonus is being reduced from +2 to +1.

This needed to happen. I can't accept a DDO where a raid group typically has 9 paladins, 1 bard, 1 artificer, and 1 caster.

[IBCrabin]

The game is not one dimensional. When one thing is changed in the game, they affect everything else as a whole.

Paladin holy sword is not the problem. The weird combination is what make the spell quite over power. Most of the flavor of the month comes from splash most people rarely thought about

The Devs could easily made holy sword for main hand and only melee weapon for balance issue. But that will affect more class splash builds using holy sword on Crossbow, long bows, two weapon fighting, and so forth

Imagine what a 14 paladin 6 monk 10k star dreadnaught blitzer can do.

Same goes for the change to heavy armor. On a non defensive stance build toon, the prr and mrr is quite nice. The Over power is people splashing 3 paladin or fighter for the defensive stance. All of a sudden you have a lot of splash with 100+prr and 80+ mrr running around. Not very balance game when heavy armor builds is easier to make and better at avoiding trap/spell damage than an evasion build that needs a lot more gear to make the DC of traps / spells.


A simple nerf to coup de grace is to remove Dazed from the list of effects that can be used for the instant kill. This will slow down the spontaneous use of coup de grace and builds with 5 bard for coup de grace using dazed from item proc for killing.

[lyrecono]

i think this is done because of the barb feedback, people complained they were supposed to be melee dps, yet weaker then the paladin
So instead of turning the barb into actual dps, they nerf the paladin, a class thet didn't need it
great balancing act.....

when were the devs starting their arcane caster pass?

[attacktrice]

I have played DDO coming on 5 years. Tried pallys but never got past lvl10 with the changes it made pally worth playing again. I have Up to epics lvl24. I could keep close to all the splash builds. I suppose it will be time to Bank pally again. Play my Bard. I really don't like to splash, so they all are pure breads. Sounds like to me devs only listen to splash builds.

[Seikojin]

The game is not one dimensional. When one thing is changed in the game, they affect everything else as a whole.

Paladin holy sword is not the problem. The weird combination is what make the spell quite over power. Most of the flavor of the month comes from splash most people rarely thought about

The Devs could easily made holy sword for main hand and only melee weapon for balance issue. But that will affect more class splash builds using holy sword on Crossbow, long bows, two weapon fighting, and so forth

Imagine what a 14 paladin 6 monk 10k star dreadnaught blitzer can do.

Same goes for the change to heavy armor. On a non defensive stance build toon, the prr and mrr is quite nice. The Over power is people splashing 3 paladin or fighter for the defensive stance. All of a sudden you have a lot of splash with 100+prr and 80+ mrr running around. Not very balance game when heavy armor builds is easier to make and better at avoiding trap/spell damage than an evasion build that needs a lot more gear to make the DC of traps / spells.


A simple nerf to coup de grace is to remove Dazed from the list of effects that can be used for the instant kill. This will slow down the spontaneous use of coup de grace and builds with 5 bard for coup de grace using dazed from item proc for killing.

i think this is done because of the barb feedback, people complained they were supposed to be melee dps, yet weaker then the paladin
So instead of turning the barb into actual dps, they nerf the paladin, a class thet didn't need it
great balancing act.....

when were the devs starting their arcane caster pass?

I have played DDO coming on 5 years. Tried pallys but never got past lvl10 with the changes it made pally worth playing again. I have Up to epics lvl24. I could keep close to all the splash builds. I suppose it will be time to Bank pally again. Play my Bard. I really don't like to splash, so they all are pure breads. Sounds like to me devs only listen to splash builds.

Really?! LOL

This needed to happen. I can't accept a DDO where a raid group typically has 9 paladins, 1 bard, 1 artificer, and 1 caster.

This sums it up. I can see people who were checking out the newness saying they are rerolling all into pallys because the power HS brings. I can only imagine how many of them use bows instead.

[Sehenry03]

This needed to happen. I can't accept a DDO where a raid group typically has 9 paladins, 1 bard, 1 artificer, and 1 caster.

LOL ok so I am in High Lords on the Sarlona server. One of the best guilds on the server with some of the best players on the server (I am not one of those btw). We are CONATANTLY running all raids. We have 1-3 raids every other night or more. Ginger also runs open raids all the time and teaching raids all the time. In short I am saying I see LOTS of raids.

We have very few Paladins in High Lords. In fact if Crummy had his way I'm pretty sure all Paladins would be thrown into a blender and served as breakfast.

In ALL those raids I see VERY few paladins. TONS of druids. TONS of monk splashes. A few bards. A few rangers. Lots of casters. A few clerics. MAYBE 1-2 Paladins through all the raids that day. Maybe 1-2 Arty's also.

If Paladins are taking over the server population plz mention which server because it certainly is NOT on Sarlona.

[lyrecono]

Really?! LOL


This sums it up. I can see people who were checking out the newness saying they are rerolling all into pallys because the power HS brings. I can only imagine how many of them use bows instead.

funny actually, feels like i'm seeing the same 100-150 ish people in epics (atleast in my timezone) and a lot of them tr-ing into the flavor of the month to alleviate the pain of the grind.
i think that on the entire server there might be 5 paladins i would take into an EE raid that have been mostly paladins over the last 5 years (with the occasional tr for past lives).

I think that's most of the population these days on the server's "end game" toons. Flavor of the month tr's
Those end game pally's worth their salt will stay pallies, the rest will most likely be tr-ed or put back as bank toons.

[Sublimemind]

The change did not make it into the build currently on Lamannia, but is expected to be in Update 24 when it is released this week. Holy Sword will no longer provide +1(W), and the added enhancement bonus is being reduced from +2 to +1.

How can you work for turbine cordovan ? do you have a job with them or are you just a lacky? they give something they knew was op...then take it away.. very anglo saxon.. then gimp it to the point of useless.. maybe they should do that with the silly druids sword as well.. but alas they wont because fair isnt in turbines nature..