about update 25

[Chauncey1]

This is so true ^_^.

The first time I saw Elminster, I was like... "Oh. He can cast Sunbolt. It killed that big bug instantly. He talks too much. Raistlin would've been way cooler. A visit to Krynn during the defense of Solace would be an awesome module." Then I continue to daydream if DDO came up with a few Krynn visits it should have to be the attack on Solace, the battle of the High Clerist's tower, the assault on the flying citadel over Palanthas, and (raid) the cleansing of Qualinost of Cyan Bloodbane. It would be alongside the storyline of the original trilogy.

After my daydream, Elminster was still talking. So I went to make a sandwich.

Yeah...
Krynn would be awesome.

[Wipey]

There is zero need for additional ranged damage boosts whatsoever.
If anything, Turbine went over the top with melee power boosts.

"Balancing classes" - just more power creep to everything, regardless of character power versus content difficulty perspective.
And game keeps bleeding players.

I would be against any Manyshot "stance toggle". As FestusHood said, it offers unique Ranger gameplay - twf with huge burst damage on demand.

[Oxarhamar]

There is zero need for additional ranged damage boosts whatsoever.
If anything, Turbine went over the top with melee power boosts.

"Balancing classes" - just more power creep to everything, regardless of character power versus content difficulty perspective.
And game keeps bleeding players.

I would be against any Manyshot "stance toggle". As FestusHood said, it offers unique Ranger gameplay - twf with huge burst damage on demand.

rangers already have TWF with burst on demand but, it has a timer.

Nothing compared to Endless Fussilage's limitations.

A toggle would be fine if balanced accordingly.

As it stands LD & DC & Harper got ranged power boosts. Other EDs & Trees or classes need appropriate balance.

Same old same old
"Manyshot & 10k stars are too powerful already (so limit all other Ranged builds around thier OPness)"

[Uska]

Yeah...
Krynn would be awesome.

If they couldn't do the special rules for magic then they should never do it

[barecm]

Now your all over the place with that one.


I was referring to as a whole Not just Doubleshot for bow users.
Seams anytime there is any ranged discussion only Manyshot 10k Stars builds get considered while everyone else gets the shaft because, those builds are much more easily viable.


I am not against making Manyshot & 10k Stars stances but, don't nerf doubleshot in the same swoop.

Double damage (100Ranged power) is not superior or equal to Double shot there are many more damages & effects outside of the base damage numbers that are uneffected by Ranged Power but, favor more Doubleshot.

changing Divine Crusaider to supply Ranged Power instead of Doubleshot was a huge nerf.

You called my response "knee jerk" but, make your own "knee jerk" response in return ignoring the other possible builds that use ranged but, not many shot or 10k stars. I read your whole suggestion and replied to the problem that it would nerf builds without Manyshot 10k stars

I was thinking of way of getting best or some of both. If you keep doubleshot as is, you exclude it from being used with a manyshot stance; which is always on as a stance. So, if you want to keep doubleshot as is, and think that is a great way of accomplishing what you need, have at it. I think having manyshot as a stance along with a double damage proc (in lieu of current doubleshot) is going to be a better solution.

[Eth]

It's not helpful when everyone talks about different stuff.

Permanent ranged builds there are currently are typically:
1. Monkcher - any split with 10k Stars, Manyshot and IPS that uses a bow
Current state: Absolutely fine, arguably OP in terms of burst DPS (Boss-Killer).

2. Shuriken Thrower - High Dex, Doubleshot, Shuriken Expertise, 10k Stars
Current state: Absolutely fine, one of the best trash-killers due to high attack rate + mortal fear and very good DPS beside that.

3. Pure Ranger, ranged combat only
Current state: Still bad, was always bad and I personally don't see the point in making it viable, the DDO ranger model of mainly TWF + ranged combat as a tool is completely fine IMO.

4. Artificers
Current state: I have no idea, I never played one. From what I've seen from others their ranged damage is in need of help.


I think instead of putting unneeded ranged power for everyone out there, they should continue with their class balance and give ranged power to the classes that actually need it.
Monkchers and shuriken throwers certainly don't need more power.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

add to aa 20 core:
manyshot no longer debuffs doubleshot.
+X ranged power.

add to aa 18 core:
+Y ( y< x ofc) ranged power.

[LightBear]

ToEE... just so much win.

I wonder what the drops will be for killing any Avatars.
Good thing we don't have a reputation... <laughs evilly>

[barecm]

It's not helpful when everyone talks about different stuff.

Permanent ranged builds there are currently are typically:
1. Monkcher - any split with 10k Stars, Manyshot and IPS that uses a bow
Current state: Absolutely fine, arguably OP in terms of burst DPS (Boss-Killer).

2. Shuriken Thrower - High Dex, Doubleshot, Shuriken Expertise, 10k Stars
Current state: Absolutely fine, one of the best trash-killers due to high attack rate + mortal fear and very good DPS beside that.

3. Pure Ranger, ranged combat only
Current state: Still bad, was always bad and I personally don't see the point in making it viable, the DDO ranger model of mainly TWF + ranged combat as a tool is completely fine IMO.

4. Artificers
Current state: I have no idea, I never played one. From what I've seen from others their ranged damage is in need of help.


I think instead of putting unneeded ranged power for everyone out there, they should continue with their class balance and give ranged power to the classes that actually need it.
Monkchers and shuriken throwers certainly don't need more power.

I respectfully disagree. Ranged combat is not fine or OP. If you disagree, run a paladin (two handed, two weapon, sword and board, sword and orb) and let me know. Not only is dps better, but survivability is ridiculous. You can reduce (physical and magic) damage to point where EE feels like EN. Yeah, you can burst damage on a moncher... great. The sustained dps and survivability of a paladin is way more impressinve imho. Then there are casters, swashbucklers, fighters and soon to be barbarians who all will out dps a pure ranged toon over time.

Ranged damage has long been the ugly duckling of combat for DDO since they cling to the idea of doing damage without risk of getting hit. Well, with PRR and MRR the way it is, casters being able to self-heal and self-buff also damage from ranged, there is not much risk of damage there either yet their damage far outclassed bow users.

The idea behind reworking the paladin and now barbarian was to make the class more viable as pure or the dominant class in a multiclassed toon. The same needs to happen for the ranger. The fixes for this have always been second hand, using Epic Destiny and multiclassing to derive and viable damage. The rework needs to happen, period. As of update 24, the pure ranger, edging out rogues and artificiers, will be the worst pure class in the game. At least the artificer and rogue can do traps and stuff.

[Oxarhamar]

I respectfully disagree. Ranged combat is not fine or OP. If you disagree, run a paladin (two handed, two weapon, sword and board, sword and orb) and let me know. Not only is dps better, but survivability is ridiculous. You can reduce (physical and magic) damage to point where EE feels like EN. Yeah, you can burst damage on a moncher... great. The sustained dps and survivability of a paladin is way more impressinve imho. Then there are casters, swashbucklers, fighters and soon to be barbarians who all will out dps a pure ranged toon over time.

Ranged damage has long been the ugly duckling of combat for DDO since they cling to the idea of doing damage without risk of getting hit. Well, with PRR and MRR the way it is, casters being able to self-heal and self-buff also damage from ranged, there is not much risk of damage there either yet their damage far outclassed bow users.

The idea behind reworking the paladin and now barbarian was to make the class more viable as pure or the dominant class in a multiclassed toon. The same needs to happen for the ranger. The fixes for this have always been second hand, using Epic Destiny and multiclassing to derive and viable damage. The rework needs to happen, period. As of update 24, the pure ranger, edging out rogues and artificiers, will be the worst pure class in the game. At least the artificer and rogue can do traps and stuff.

Yep there is a lot of discontent that ranged can kite with reduced risk than melee and the TOP DPS ranged builds keep the other options from being buffed due to fear of making TOP builds more powerful.

I actually heard a player say in EE MOD the other day "My Paladin solo's EE faster and easier than my Monkcher ever did." This was a player I've known to run on a Monkcher since the enhancement pass.


While Monchers and Shuricannons may not need much help the rest of the classes could use a buff.

I've been running an EE on various full repeater Artificer hybrid builds (for different Pastlives) since U18 and majority of my ranged DPS comes from heavily multi-classing. I'm capable of holding my own soloing whatever but, only through extreme min/max, forced class splits, fine tuned gear, and lots of experiance with the type of build. enter the DC caster, Hold & Burst Nuker, Paladin, Swash, Monkcher, Cannon, Druid Wolf, even the l now less popular Centered Kensei with similar gear and the only thing I have left is my knowledge of how to play my build to its peak performance or just let these guys take the brunt of the Agro then pick things off of them.

[Severlin]

The full implementation of Ranged Power that was promised seems to have fallen way off.... not even being mentioned anymore. Not surprised but still not happy about it.

Our current plan is to have this for next update.

Sev~

[barecm]

Our current plan is to have this for next update.

Sev~

That is awsome, since the next update is only days away... but I am assuming you mean update 25; which is not days away...and not as awesome.

[Oxarhamar]

Our current plan is to have this for next update.

Sev~

ToEE & Ranged Power! /head asplode!

[Severlin]

That is awsome, since the next update is only days away... but I am assuming you mean update 25; which is not days away...and not as awesome.

The next next update.

(So excited about ToEE.)

Sev~

[Mercureal]

The next next update.

(So excited about ToEE.)

Sev~

Uh oh, you're saying the next next update in response to his statement that it's probably U25 - does that mean it's the next next update after U25, which would be U27? Or are you saying that U25 is the next update, and it would be introduced in U26?

Or maybe you meant next next relative to now, which would be U25.

Probably one of those scenarios.

[UurlockYgmeov]

The next next update.

(So excited about ToEE.)

Sev~

umm...

*drool*

[Angelic-council]

Uh oh, you're saying the next next update in response to his statement that it's probably U25 - does that mean it's the next next update after U25, which would be U27? Or are you saying that U25 is the next update, and it would be introduced in U26?

Or maybe you meant next next relative to now, which would be U25.

Probably one of those scenarios.

I think Sev is talking U25, ranged power will be added along with ToEE.

[Monkey-Boy]

I think Sev is talking U25, ranged power will be added along with ToEE.

i expect some nerfs to come with these buffs. Master's Blitz lost a lot of mojo in order to buff some of the other EDs. I approve the change, I think the game is better for it.

I just don't expect Fury-Shot + Slayer arrow to survive the changes.

[Seikojin]

i expect some nerfs to come with these buffs. Master's Blitz lost a lot of mojo in order to buff some of the other EDs. I approve the change, I think the game is better for it.

I just don't expect Fury-Shot + Slayer arrow to survive the changes.

I think Furied Slayer should stay. It isn't that broken considering the bigger ranged power is all the stacks you can get and using 45%+ ranged attack speed with manyshot. Well, I could imagine a racial AA elf paladin using wholy sword to make their longbow do some pretty impressive numbers this way.

Now I am expecting some decent changes for ranged power considering all the good that has come from melee power. I love new blitz. It no longer is a requirement to be top end melee and can be used more frequently and it is not a pain when you lose it.

[Oxarhamar]

Our current plan is to have this for next update.

Sev~

Going to take a look at fixing "shot attacks" for Xbows & repeaters?