Dizzying Spiked Chain - Is there a defense against it?

[Knobull]

The formidable weapon distracts and cripples your combat tactics.

• -10% Weapon Damage per stack
• -5% Attack Speed per stack
• -2 Concentration per stack

Stacks up to 8 times.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Dizzying_Spiked_Chain

-80% weapon damage, -40% Attack Speed and -16 Concentration!!!

Really? Seriously? Like what the...?

Is there an effective defense against this insanity?

[PermaBanned]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Dizzying_Spiked_Chain

-80% weapon damage, -40% Attack Speed and -16 Concentration!!!

Really? Seriously? Like what the...?

Is there an effective defense against this insanity?

Well, you can always run/jump away when you see or here it winding up, beyond that the type of defense depends on what you're playing - what kind of CC do you have? Spells, Stuns or Trips work well...

[Enoach]

The most effective way to avoid this is to be out of range.

Barring that you have the following options

1. Incapacitate - stun, trip, sap, paralyze etc.
2. Jump out of range - Leap of Faith, Monk's Leap ability or EA Leap of Faith
3. Don't get hit - AC/Dodge/Concealment/Incorporeal
4. Kill the chain wielder
5. Terrain, pillars, doors and high ground

[BD_]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Dizzying_Spiked_Chain

-80% weapon damage, -40% Attack Speed and -16 Concentration!!!

Really? Seriously? Like what the...?

Is there an effective defense against this insanity?

Evasion with a high reflex save - Actually I'm not certain you have to have evasion - I've never tried with a high reflex save non evasion character.

EE Karleth it's DC 73 Other EE mobs - not certain of the exact DC needed but I'd guess around 58-62 the same as almost all other EE reflex saves. 67 is definitely more than enough reflex save. My guess would be DC for most EH trash mobs chains is about 45.

[Knobull]

As I expected, range and physical tactics. (are we sure there is no spell resistance or similar counter-measure?) I don't really have any cc yet. I'm playing a sword and board paladin at level 17. Trips sound like they might be the way to go.

Thanks for the tips!

edit: oh - reflex saves apply? I might be able to work with that, thanks BD!

[BD_]

As I expected, range and physical tactics. (are we sure there is no spell resistance or similar counter-measure?) I don't really have any cc yet. I'm playing a sword and board paladin at level 17. Trips sound like they might be the way to go.

Thanks for the tips!

edit: oh - reflex saves apply? I might be able to work with that, thanks BD!

Evasion definitely works. I am unsure if high reflex save with no evasion works. If you have no fail on a 1 reflex save of 72+ and evasion there is currently nothing in the game that can stack the dizzying chain debuff on you (assuming you don't have reflex save debuffs, neg levels, etc.) I can only make educated guesses at the chain DC's of anything other than EE Karleth.

[redoubt]

One or two is not too bad. I can throw a shield stun on one then beat on the second and jump away every other swing when it pulls out the spiked chain.

Its having 5-6 of them at once like in Trackers Trap. 30 second cooldown on my stun means that I can't really keep more than one stunned and even with good defenses I can't stand in the middle of 5 of them that are not stunned.

It seems weird that my friend an I can kill a 372k giant and a 255k boss and her pseudo dragon with little issues, but these darn chain swinging trash mobs are the hardest thing in that whole quest. (I'd hate to see 5 of them as champions at once... think I'd recall and try again if that happened... And don't get me started on just how good these guys are at killing hires/pets. I don't even try to keep them alive anymore against them. The only way to keep a hire alive against a swinger is to leave them at the entrance of the quest on passive! They won't move away when the chains start swinging and by the time you move and call them its too late.

I like the challenge, but I dislike the spam. Its the same thing every time a new thing to challenge us is thought of... it just gets spammed so much I end up hating it. Same now with the over achieving con damage. If either of these was used more sparingly, I'd think they were great challenges. As it is now, I find them annoying.

So expand out: How do you deal with a group (3-6) of these "swingers" as my guild calls them? (Besides run around like a chicken without a head and hope you eventually get lucky and kill a few off.)

[BD_]

One or two is not too bad. I can throw a shield stun on one then beat on the second and jump away every other swing when it pulls out the spiked chain.

Its having 5-6 of them at once like in Trackers Trap. 30 second cooldown on my stun means that I can't really keep more than one stunned and even with good defenses I can't stand in the middle of 5 of them that are not stunned.

It seems weird that my friend an I can kill a 372k giant and a 255k boss and her pseudo dragon with little issues, but these darn chain swinging trash mobs are the hardest thing in that whole quest. (I'd hate to see 5 of them as champions at once... think I'd recall and try again if that happened... And don't get me started on just how good these guys are at killing hires/pets. I don't even try to keep them alive anymore against them. The only way to keep a hire alive against a swinger is to leave them at the entrance of the quest on passive! They won't move away when the chains start swinging and by the time you move and call them its too late.

I like the challenge, but I dislike the spam. Its the same thing every time a new thing to challenge us is thought of... it just gets spammed so much I end up hating it. Same now with the over achieving con damage. If either of these was used more sparingly, I'd think they were great challenges. As it is now, I find them annoying.

So expand out: How do you deal with a group (3-6) of these "swingers" as my guild calls them? (Besides run around like a chicken without a head and hope you eventually get lucky and kill a few off.)

Personally (at least on the character with autoevasion), I just run in the middle of them and start cleaving away...

On other (melee) characters - some combination of instakilling, various forms of CC, and kiting works. Fascinate works great as would mass hold or discoball etc. if DC is high enough. Getting a few to start spinning their chain and then moving out of the chain range and killing others works just not as good. Anything that separates them or stuns etc. helps, a guardbreaking shield helps too - cleave - move a few steps cleave move a few steps and hope that you got at least a few dazed. Any range attacker can of course just kite them too or shoot them when they're spinning their chains.

[Rykka]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Dizzying_Spiked_Chain

-80% weapon damage, -40% Attack Speed and -16 Concentration!!!

Really? Seriously? Like what the...?

Is there an effective defense against this insanity?

Well it's more annoying than deadly and well telegraphed, so you just get out of the AOE an continue to kill. Let someone else drop a DOT on it or include it in you own build.

[axel15810]

As others said, listen for it and get out of range of the chain. The chain makes a sound a second or two before it starts swinging. They can't move and use it at the same time.

CC if you can.

But yeah, hate this effect with a passion. This and the Shadowfell effect are the biggest reasons Wheloon content can be super annoying to play.

[moo_cow]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Dizzying_Spiked_Chain

-80% weapon damage, -40% Attack Speed and -16 Concentration!!!

Really? Seriously? Like what the...?

Is there an effective defense against this insanity?

Move out of the way.

[Daine]

Move out of the way.

This.

If you have no ranged worth using and no CC of any form, just walk backwards when they start to swing. They can't move and swing, so they either stand there swinging at air or more usually stop swinging and come after you with some inferior attack until their cooldown for the swing lets them go again. If you think of them as a mini boss where you need a tactic to overcome them, it becomes very easy.

Attack until the chain comes out, move away until they stop swinging and attack again, rinse repeat.

[Powskier]

Move out of the way.

yea this is only thing workin for my melee on chaingangs....real easy to do ,enemies need four or five chain wielders to throw that tactic off a little.

[BD_]

This.

If you have no ranged worth using and no CC of any form, just walk backwards when they start to swing. They can't move and swing, so they either stand there swinging at air or more usually stop swinging and come after you with some inferior attack until their cooldown for the swing lets them go again. If you think of them as a mini boss where you need a tactic to overcome them, it becomes very easy.

Attack until the chain comes out, move away until they stop swinging and attack again, rinse repeat.

Actually they're locked in place and can't move until after the chain stops swinging - it swings for a set amount of time once started - unless you interrupt it somehow (trip, hold, stun, etc.)

[Daine]

Actually they're locked in place and can't move until after the chain stops swinging - it swings for a set amount of time once started - unless you interrupt it somehow (trip, hold, stun, etc.)

LOL probably my perception then: if I just stand there taking damage it seems a very long time, but when I jump out it seems as if they sometimers don't swing for the maximum time and give chase. +1 to DDO devs for immersing me in the combat so much!

[Highlander]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Dizzying_Spiked_Chain

-80% weapon damage, -40% Attack Speed and -16 Concentration!!!

Really? Seriously? Like what the...?

Is there an effective defense against this insanity?

Yes, avoid quests with Shadar Kai in.
Strangely, the player version of Shadar Kai does not seem to be as effective as the NPC version..... odd that.

[General_Gronker]

Pfffft. There's no defense against bad design.

[Vanhooger]

This is not bad design for me. it's actually the only ee mob that give 1% challenge, at least for melee.

[Loromir]

For me...moving away from their attack is the way to go. Once they break off their chain attack, they go on a timer (Just like players do)...and you can engage them again. I rarely get more than one or two stacks from them.

[Steelstar]

LOL probably my perception then: if I just stand there taking damage it seems a very long time, but when I jump out it seems as if they sometimers don't swing for the maximum time and give chase. +1 to DDO devs for immersing me in the combat so much!

This is correct! They'll keep swinging if they're hitting targets, and stop swinging if they don't hit any targets for a while.