Devs: After Barbarians, how about Artificers?

[HatsuharuZ]

I know this is a bit early, but I find that the longer one waits to make suggestions, the less likely they are to be implemented.

Artificers are one of the remaining classes with only 2 enhancements trees, and both of those trees are a bit bland. I don't feel that there is anything exciting in these trees. I have no idea who did which trees, or how much time they put into them, but it feels like artificers didn't get as much attention as other classes did back in the change to the enhancement tree system.


I'm not going to go into specific suggestions, but I'd like to point out a few things:

1) Items and item crafting are both supposed to be artificer specialities, but artificers can only get up to 75 spellpower with items, just like any other class.

2) Items and item crafting have not been updated with the rest of the game.

3) Arcanotechnician is the spellcasting tree, but it is necessary to invest many points into Battle Engineer to get the effect that gives extra spellpower when charging a rune arm.

4) The portion of "Arcane Empowerment" that effects items is only available after spending 40 points in a tree that focuses on spell casting.

5) Battle Engineer seems to assume that all artificers are going to be using rune arms, but not shields or orbs.

6) I like using Construct Essence on my own artificers. Too bad there aren't any enhancements that improve upon this feat. (Yeah, this last one is an opinion, not a fact or observation, but I had to add it.)

[kmoustakas]

Well, harper agent is a p2p 3rd tree for artificer... It looks custom-made for us. But I haven't bought it yet so I can only speculate. To really take advantage of it you need tier 5 harper and battle engineer capstone leaving you with 0 points to put on anything else.

[Oxarhamar]

Well, harper agent is a p2p 3rd tree for artificer... It looks custom-made for us. But I haven't bought it yet so I can only speculate. To really take advantage of it you need tier 5 harper and battle engineer capstone leaving you with 0 points to put on anything else.

Harper tree is a universal Tree.

Adding Harper does not excuse that Artifcer only has 2 Trees and both are broken.

[janave]

Arties got Harper, which has very strong Artificer sync. Id say either druids or fvs for a 3rd tree. FVS only got nerfed since its inception so id would be time to add more options for them to play with.

I think new trees should be the priority to revamps. Revamps are needed to balance things out, but massive buffs as seen in bard/paladin, are not needed at all.

Actually Sorcerer also only has 2 trees only, for me Savant's count as 1, they really are just 1 tree with select element, ok there are a few notable differences, but hardly justify a whole tree.

Artificers should get a 3rd one too, ofc, regardless harper.

[Blackheartox]

Personally i would put favored soul on next to fix since they have no offense oriented tree /slas from div disciple surpass fsoul in any serious casting build/, nor do they have any healing tree.
Beside shiradi splashin, favored soul really has nothing.
Artie can somewhat work on weird odd splits.
Priority wise i would go like this:

1. Druid /to fix all bugs in animal form and provide a better casting tree that scales in epics (priority on animal forms)
2. Favored soul /beside shiradi casting fsoul just losses in every aspect to clerics when it comes to divine casting
3. Arties /nothn to add, trees are purely horrible
4. Sorc /because its my final life and i want mjore bufffs xD (tbh sorcs and pmstery need a slight nerf imo)

[axel15810]

Artificer for sure needs to be addressed. They have no 3rd tree and there's no artie destiny.

However, I think we need to rebalance the other trees first before adding more. If we add more now, we may have to do yet another pass on them in the future. Balance all other trees first, then build new trees around them.

I think Fighter needs to be next. Seems the most logical, it's already partly done with the new vanguard tree being added. Kensei is in rough shape. Fighter needs to at least be on the same level DPS wise as Pally.

[Blackheartox]

Artificer for sure needs to be addressed. They have no 3rd tree and there's no artie destiny.

However, I think we need to rebalance the other trees first before adding more. If we add more now, we may have to do yet another pass on them in the future. Balance all other trees first, then build new trees around them.

I think Fighter needs to be next. Seems the most logical, it's already partly done with the new vanguard tree being added. Kensei is in rough shape. Fighter needs to at least be on the same level DPS wise as Pally.

That can be fixed really easy with a simple holy sword nerf.
Centerd fighters are still strong, nerf holy sword and the tradeoff in survival /dps will be ok.
Palies get saves mrr and prr while fighters gain one with blade and more w ear stance etc.
Simply, we dont need to buff fighter but nerf palie.

[Oxarhamar]

Arties got Harper, which has very strong Artificer sync. Id say either druids or fvs for a 3rd tree. FVS only got nerfed since its inception so id would be time to add more options for them to play with.

I think new trees should be the priority to revamps. Revamps are needed to balance things out, but massive buffs as seen in bard/paladin, are not needed at all.

Actually Sorcerer also only has 2 trees only, for me Savant's count as 1, they really are just 1 tree with select element, ok there are a few notable differences, but hardly justify a whole tree.

Artificers should get a 3rd one too, ofc, regardless harper.

Artificers did not get Harper.

harp just happens to compliment Artificer.


artificer still needs a 3rd Tree as well as revamp of BE & Archano

[walkin_dude]

IMO, druids need to be looked at after barbarians. There are so many bugs inherent in druids, it's ridiculous. Make their combat WAI, please.

[vengfarga]

I know this is a bit early, but I find that the longer one waits to make suggestions, the less likely they are to be implemented.

Artificers are one of the remaining classes with only 2 enhancements trees, and both of those trees are a bit bland. I don't feel that there is anything exciting in these trees. I have no idea who did which trees, or how much time they put into them, but it feels like artificers didn't get as much attention as other classes did back in the change to the enhancement tree system.


I'm not going to go into specific suggestions, but I'd like to point out a few things:

1) Items and item crafting are both supposed to be artificer specialities, but artificers can only get up to 75 spellpower with items, just like any other class.

2) Items and item crafting have not been updated with the rest of the game.

3) Arcanotechnician is the spellcasting tree, but it is necessary to invest many points into Battle Engineer to get the effect that gives extra spellpower when charging a rune arm.

4) The portion of "Arcane Empowerment" that effects items is only available after spending 40 points in a tree that focuses on spell casting.

5) Battle Engineer seems to assume that all artificers are going to be using rune arms, but not shields or orbs.

6) I like using Construct Essence on my own artificers. Too bad there aren't any enhancements that improve upon this feat. (Yeah, this last one is an opinion, not a fact or observation, but I had to add it.)

As possibly the only person bloody minded enough to have played a rog mech since before 'old enhancement rog mech II' came out ... I would like to claim precedence over the johnny come lately, forgot their own evasion, arties! ;D
We finally got our full suite of stuff AFTER a p2p class came out that stole most of our thunder. The current solution? We were given kickass bonuses to great xbows - that most popular of weapons.
So if arties are in need of a pass and some love (and I agree they absolutely are,) then please don't forget their sneaky, less versatile, older brother. Something that helped differentiate the two would be nice - fixing pc traps would be the most thematic; adding a pile of ranged power and/or doubleshot to tier 4/5 mech would be the quick way - arties become what they are supposed to be (versatile jack 'n jills of all trades) and mechs become another kind of heavy duty situational dps, just like other rogues.

[HernandoCortez]

How about some fighter love?
Some ranger too, perhaps.
I've tested barbarians on Lamannia and they were really improved, I'm glad I didn't TR mine into another class. Good job on barbarians.

[HatsuharuZ]

As possibly the only person bloody minded enough to have played a rog mech since before 'old enhancement rog mech II' came out ... I would like to claim precedence over the johnny come lately, forgot their own evasion, arties! ;D
We finally got our full suite of stuff AFTER a p2p class came out that stole most of our thunder. The current solution? We were given kickass bonuses to great xbows - that most popular of weapons.
So if arties are in need of a pass and some love (and I agree they absolutely are,) then please don't forget their sneaky, less versatile, older brother. Something that helped differentiate the two would be nice - fixing pc traps would be the most thematic; adding a pile of ranged power and/or doubleshot to tier 4/5 mech would be the quick way - arties become what they are supposed to be (versatile jack 'n jills of all trades) and mechs become another kind of heavy duty situational dps, just like other rogues.

lol, good point. A good start for that would be to somehow make it easier to stock up on magical ammunition. It's silly that it only drops in stacks of 20, still.

[HatsuharuZ]

How about some fighter love?
Some ranger too, perhaps.
I've tested barbarians on Lamannia and they were really improved, I'm glad I didn't TR mine into another class. Good job on barbarians.

For fighters, imo, they need to look at fighter bonus feats.

[Teh_Hobgoblin]

Artificers are one of the remaining classes with only 2 enhancements trees

3.

You also have a dog.

[HatsuharuZ]

3.

You also have a dog.

No, the dog class has a bunch of enhancements. :P

And even if pet enhancements did count, they're not in an easy-to-see format either.

[Oxarhamar]

3.

You also have a dog.

While the dog has its own outdated enhancement Tree that was not updated with the enhancement pass. Archanotechnician Tree has a major focus on the dog which means Artificer has less than 2 trees due to sharing with the dog.

Dog tree should be completely independent from Archano along with the Artificer ReVamp

[sherbertmachine]

While thematically arcane empowerment does makes sense to be in Arcanotechnician, I was still annoyed when the enhancement pass came and moved it there. If you are playing an xbow focused pure arti you sure as heck don't wanna dump 40 points into Arcanotechnician to get back your old favorite capstone. I don't even think caster focused artis want to dump 40 points into it (at least I think it's fairly weak).

Anyways, Artificers suffer from what FVS's suffer from atm and that is they were both fairly strong pre-u14/pre-Enhancement pass so they didn't get much of a buff when the new enhancements rolled out (if at all). They haven't been keeping up with the jones's so to speak and could use some minor buffs/tweaking at least.

[Ayseifn]

Judging by the list of weakest classes that was polled a while ago rogues should be next on the update list. A trapper themed update could be cool to go along with ToEE, 3rd tree for Arti with some tweaks to the other two, a refresh on rogues and some general trapping stuff.

[Oxarhamar]

Judging by the list of weakest classes that was polled a while ago rogues should be next on the update list. A trapper themed update could be cool to go along with ToEE, 3rd tree for Arti with some tweaks to the other two, a refresh on rogues and some general trapping stuff.

true

[gummolo]

2. Favored soul /beside shiradi casting fsoul just losses in every aspect to clerics when it comes to divine casting

A pure FvS and a pure Cleric have the exact same potential DC:

- both can get 5 WIS points from enhancement trees (1 human + 2 from two different trees)
- +2 evo/necro DC on Divine Disciple; only +1 evo DC in AoV
- Cleric capstone +2 WIS; Aura of Menace -2 saves

So that shpwa they got the same DC, other interesting points:

- Cleric got heavy armor proficiency (+++)
- FvS got leap of faith (+) -> actually also a cleric got them via EA destiny (the best for a DC based divine caster)
- Fvs used to have natural better overall saves (12/12/12) but they are beaten down cause clr got +4 to all saves (12/6/12 + 4 to all saves going pure)
-Fvs got a few more SP than a cleric (about 400 SP) (+) not very usefull anyway nowday

So what really is missing on FvS comapred to clerics are some nice SLA