Why does the 90% immunity to stat-damage still exist in EH/EE?

[Monkey-Boy]

Title asks it all, this should have gone when deathward was removed.

[dunklezhan]

heh. I just posted a moan about that as part of another post. I'd be interested to hear the answer. Mobs must have hideously high base stats anyway looking at their HP totals and damage output, and certainly have high stat damage regeneration, so I really can't imagine that stat damagers would be that powerful. Its not like we're asking for WoP to work like it used to!

[fmalfeas]

Sadly, their stats aren't that high. I went into Elite Mindsunder about a year ago with wounding of puncturing daggers just to see what the effect would be before helpless. On a 2000+ hp mob, dropping them to 0 con took off about 200 max hp. Most of their HP seems to be a 'bonus'.

Neg levels are far, far, far more effective in stripping out HP because of that.

It also meant that unless I have sneak attack, or the Fury sense weakness twisted in, I utterly ignore stat damage.

Int/Wis/Cha damage also doesn't seem to stop them from using their highest level spells either. So long as the aren't still in the once-only 0-stat stun, they can cast fine and dandy.

Therefore, I don't care about the stat damage immunity, since it's nearly useless. Now, the 'regens neg levels in seconds' bit of epic ward...that I care about alot, particularly considering how much SP Energy Drain costs.

[redoubt]

Sadly, their stats aren't that high. I went into Elite Mindsunder about a year ago with wounding of puncturing daggers just to see what the effect would be before helpless. On a 2000+ hp mob, dropping them to 0 con took off about 200 max hp. Most of their HP seems to be a 'bonus'.

Neg levels are far, far, far more effective in stripping out HP because of that.

It also meant that unless I have sneak attack, or the Fury sense weakness twisted in, I utterly ignore stat damage.

Int/Wis/Cha damage also doesn't seem to stop them from using their highest level spells either. So long as the aren't still in the once-only 0-stat stun, they can cast fine and dandy.

Therefore, I don't care about the stat damage immunity, since it's nearly useless. Now, the 'regens neg levels in seconds' bit of epic ward...that I care about alot, particularly considering how much SP Energy Drain costs.

Maybe we could go back to NO stat and level regen for mobs (and players)? Have someone remove it from you or drink a potion or use a scroll... This would add some (not a lot) of challenge back in for us and would make some of these other means of damaging mobs useful again.

[Takllin]

IMO would be a nice buff to barbarians considering they have a bunch of stat draining abilities. Not sure why the rate of regen is so high, I wouldn't mind it but the rate is ridiculous.

[JOTMON]

Sadly, their stats aren't that high. I went into Elite Mindsunder about a year ago with wounding of puncturing daggers just to see what the effect would be before helpless. On a 2000+ hp mob, dropping them to 0 con took off about 200 max hp. Most of their HP seems to be a 'bonus'.

Neg levels are far, far, far more effective in stripping out HP because of that.

It also meant that unless I have sneak attack, or the Fury sense weakness twisted in, I utterly ignore stat damage.

Int/Wis/Cha damage also doesn't seem to stop them from using their highest level spells either. So long as the aren't still in the once-only 0-stat stun, they can cast fine and dandy.

Therefore, I don't care about the stat damage immunity, since it's nearly useless. Now, the 'regens neg levels in seconds' bit of epic ward...that I care about alot, particularly considering how much SP Energy Drain costs.

Pretty much ^ This.

Stat damagers have been worthless for a long time.

Bosses are essentially immune.

Mobs are limited to how much stat damage can be done, and reduced stats have no impact on them...you are better off doing real DPS..

So it is a waste of time to even bother trying to use stat damagers or invest in stat damaging enhancements.. you are just gimping yourself.

[dunklezhan]

Sadly, their stats aren't that high. I went into Elite Mindsunder about a year ago with wounding of puncturing daggers just to see what the effect would be before helpless. On a 2000+ hp mob, dropping them to 0 con took off about 200 max hp. Most of their HP seems to be a 'bonus'.

Awww, weaksauce.

[BigErkyKid]

Personally, I think that epic mobs should have high saves but no invulnerability shields.

This would go, for my taste, for charm, death effects, stat effects, negative levels...

It only makes the game more interesting. Of course, as long as those things are balanced right.

[JOTMON]

Maybe we could go back to NO stat and level regen for mobs (and players)? Have someone remove it from you or drink a potion or use a scroll... This would add some (not a lot) of challenge back in for us and would make some of these other means of damaging mobs useful again.

Would be nice to see stat damagers be useful again.. but somehow I don't think it will ever happen.

a party of stat damagers used to be great for CC on respawn mobs.. stat damage to 0.. then walk away because old school mobs didn't regen..

We suggested a regen for mobs similar to players 1 stat point/min regen.. instead they screwed stat damagers all together.



On the flipside.. Doomsphere in Epic GOP still dishes out massive stat damage to con.. pretty much wipes out your con in a hit or two.. no save..
Funny to watch a party running around in circles trying to restore con from 0 to 1 so they can cast a scroll or drink a port.. while trying not to get hit again with more stat damage or die...

[Powskier]

it is rather fustrating to realize the 40 pts of strength you drained from an enemy is gone in seconds,and never really stacked

[fmalfeas]

Note - Rogues and Ninja Spies and Deepwoods Stalkers have a reason to use stat damagers. If a mob has a stat at 0, even if not stunned, sneak attack goes active. For everyone else? Not so much. Sure, *maybe* you can shave a couple points off their saves, but they'll regen it so quickly it's not worth the bother. I suppose wolf druids have use for it too.

Everyone else? Unless you're running with those classes in your parties all the time, and fighting bags of HP, far, far better to get a damage mod on your weapon.

And since we're covering things like that, out of the big special procs? I suggest avoiding Magma Surge...I can't say 100% due to combat log spam, but I don't think it lands on Reds since they're immune to slow (the same kind of problem had with Sunbeam and Liches...if part is blocked, all seems blocked). Incineration and Greater Incineration proc the most often if you aren't counting Steam. Following that is Disintegration. Lightning Strike, while beefy, has a lower proc rate. MUCH lower than Greater Incineration. And despite spreadsheeting, in my experience it's better to have 3-4 times the number of 300 damage procs than the 600 from Lightning Strike, simply because it comes up more often, making it more likely to land when a mob is still full or high HP.

Also, don't underestimate the Cloudburst proc. It goes off frequently, and the 100 damage sonic AoE is reliable damage (little resists or ignores sonic). This makes Fang of Siberys rather nice for tempest rangers, even with it only have 1d6 for base damage. A pair of them can sweep a room quickly up until about level 24 or so. Slows down then, due to much more HP.

[redoubt]

Would be nice to see stat damagers be useful again.. but somehow I don't think it will ever happen.

a party of stat damagers used to be great for CC on respawn mobs.. stat damage to 0.. then walk away because old school mobs didn't regen..

We suggested a regen for mobs similar to players 1 stat point/min regen.. instead they screwed stat damagers all together.



On the flipside.. Doomsphere in Epic GOP still dishes out massive stat damage to con.. pretty much wipes out your con in a hit or two.. no save..
Funny to watch a party running around in circles trying to restore con from 0 to 1 so they can cast a scroll or drink a port.. while trying not to get hit again with more stat damage or die...

I'd be okay with 1 point per minute. This would allow you to actually drain a stat for effect. i.e. stun a mob and leave them there for a minute. Or drain their will save to zero and charm them so they can't make their save and have to do your bidding for a longer period of time. Same for dropping their fort save so they stay in "flesh to stone" longer etc.

One level per 2 minutes is what we have right? Should be the same for all the mobs. ALL THE MOBS. Even epic.

Doomsphere and the U23 con damage mobs are simply broken. I've taken 20+ points of con damage in a single hit in the LOD series. Can you say what they hay?!?!

[janave]

They should put back DW on at least 30-40% of the mobs, randomly, with the new champion system. To promote more tactical approaches, an teamwork, stat buffs should be eased up at least drop to 50%, and give more time on the debuff counters.

Mass instakills are still cheap, its ok to trivialize the 14-20 part of heroic, but not cool in epics.

Also all named monsters should have at least a 50% ward for instakill.

SLAs should also get a look, as some of them are basically mass instakills on a properly built caster.

[Deadlock]

Also all named monsters should have at least a 50% ward for instakill.

Blanket wards and regenerating negative levels every 3 seconds I don't agree with.

Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic are the tools for removing wards from mobs to make them vulnerable. Blanket wards just make these useless. If we need Epic Dispel Magic added to the Epic Spellbook then so be it.

I'd rather see a mob have to stop and drink a pot to restore the same amount of stat damage that we can do, or to stop and cast a spell that costs them SP instead of an infinite SP pool on enemy casters (and I'm cool if they want to stop and drink an SP pot or two, but not an infinite number).

Same with level draining abilities - an automatic regen every 3 seconds is just a pain in the neck - smack them with any level draining item and you can watch their max HP bouncing up and down to see this regen happening for yourself. Without specific healing, their ability to regenerate negative levels should be the same as a players, and anything faster than this should cause them to take specific actions to cast or drink a pot, or activate an item.

[Deadlock]

They should put back DW on at least 30-40% of the mobs, randomly, with the new champion system.

What new champion system?

[RD2play]

What new champion system?

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...mpion-Feedback

[Hendrik]

Maybe we could go back to NO stat and level regen for mobs (and players)? Have someone remove it from you or drink a potion or use a scroll... This would add some (not a lot) of challenge back in for us and would make some of these other means of damaging mobs useful again.

I would love this as well, NO regen for anyone, but the soloists would cry and scream.

We have regen stat damage because of them.

Cannot alienate the people that do not want to play with anyone else but themselves in a MMO or carry standard adventuring supplies.

[Deadlock]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...mpion-Feedback

Cheers, didn't realise that had been made public yet.

[Singular]

Sadly, their stats aren't that high. I went into Elite Mindsunder about a year ago with wounding of puncturing daggers just to see what the effect would be before helpless. On a 2000+ hp mob, dropping them to 0 con took off about 200 max hp. Most of their HP seems to be a 'bonus'.

Neg levels are far, far, far more effective in stripping out HP because of that.

It also meant that unless I have sneak attack, or the Fury sense weakness twisted in, I utterly ignore stat damage.

Int/Wis/Cha damage also doesn't seem to stop them from using their highest level spells either. So long as the aren't still in the once-only 0-stat stun, they can cast fine and dandy.

Therefore, I don't care about the stat damage immunity, since it's nearly useless. Now, the 'regens neg levels in seconds' bit of epic ward...that I care about alot, particularly considering how much SP Energy Drain costs.

Energy drained levels - at least from sorc spells - don't regenerate so quickly. I don't know how fast they regen b/c mobs don't survive long enough.

[fmalfeas]

If memory serves, on EE it's like 3-6 seconds per neg level. Below that, I believe it's more like 20-30 seconds per neg level. Though the EH Epic Ward may have the 3-6 second thing too. I'm not sure, never tested. My wizzy switched to Evoc + Conj, and decided to just tear away the HP rather than mess with other stuff. On that note...I can haz moar spellcritz?