build idea: harper acrowiz 15/5

[Makkuroi]

Im toying with the idea of a melee wizard with decent spell DCs.

5 rogue for full staffy abilities, evasion, great trapskills (as int-based build) and no mercy
Harper for int to damage and know the angles, int to reflex as feat
15 wiz for self-heals, utility, and cc

probably going warforged with mithral body, although wraith pale master is worth considering. Destiny should be draconic with sense weakness twisted. Jump into the fray, use dancing balls/mass hold person, and do enormous damage vs helpless.

So, should I go Pale Master or just recon? Drop 2 more wiz levels for 2 monk levels?

[Kamode_Corebasher]

15 wiz to get otto's and powerwordstun and extended buffs, 5 rogue for acrobat and full trapping...I believe you will be really durable with low resource use and do-able dps.

For me, I dislike necro more than I dislike forged, so I'd personally go bladeforged for the cheaper reconstructs...just needs a +1 heart :-(

I really like the idea of the harper int tohit and todmg

Im toying with the idea of a melee wizard with decent spell DCs.

5 rogue for full staffy abilities, evasion, great trapskills (as int-based build) and no mercy
Harper for int to damage and know the angles, int to reflex as feat
15 wiz for self-heals, utility, and cc

probably going warforged with mithral body, although wraith pale master is worth considering. Destiny should be draconic with sense weakness twisted. Jump into the fray, use dancing balls/mass hold person, and do enormous damage vs helpless.

So, should I go Pale Master or just recon? Drop 2 more wiz levels for 2 monk levels?

[Makkuroi]

No more ideas or comments? More thoughts on this:

Some comparisons:
-vs 18/2 wiz: loses lvl 9 spells and potential lich form, gains crit profile and helpless damage
-vs non-caster staffy (rogue/monk/pally): cant take advantage of paladin or monk stuff (lowish PRR and saves, less damage), gains displacement and CC plus lots of utility spells.

feats:
4x wiz: quicken, heighten, enchantment focus, maximize (maybe swap out at higher levels)
melee: IC: Bludgeon, Power Attack, THF chain (???)
general: insightful reflexes, wizard PL
What else?

Big pros:
-Can run any destiny sphere, Crusader, Dreadnought, Draconic, or Fury... might even go shiradi.
-Maybe the best caster-melee hybrid out there. Not sure how a swashbuckling caster compares, but a cha-based pally/monk/sorc BF would have to cut down casting a lot to get all monk/pally benefits and have no 15% attack speed bonus.

[cnynridr2]

Im toying with the idea of a melee wizard with decent spell DCs.

5 rogue for full staffy abilities, evasion, great trapskills (as int-based build) and no mercy
Harper for int to damage and know the angles, int to reflex as feat
15 wiz for self-heals, utility, and cc

probably going warforged with mithral body, although wraith pale master is worth considering. Destiny should be draconic with sense weakness twisted. Jump into the fray, use dancing balls/mass hold person, and do enormous damage vs helpless.

So, should I go Pale Master or just recon? Drop 2 more wiz levels for 2 monk levels?

I would love to see more responses on this type of build as well. I am looking at doing one of my completionist lives as one.

[Such755]

Don't delude yourself about "decent spell DC", because it won't be.
You lose significant DC from not having 9 level of spells, not having pale master capstone, not having lich form and other stuff. So as far as spell casting, I would do my best to stick to no-save spells at all times, maybe go for a web here and there because it's relatively effective even with low DC, and surely I wouldn't count on any crowd control spell before I launch into a huge mob.
I would play it as carefully as a pure rogue would be and try to still be sneaky.

As far as which race and playstyle, I would stay pale master for wraith form, and go human for the extra feat and balance. Warforged seems like a waste, especially if you go undead.

If you don't wish to be undead then yeah, go WF, but necromancer seems the best option.

Also keep in mind that your sneak attack damage would be significantly lower than any pure rogue.

I suggest that if you wanna be a rogue, go pure.
If you wanna be a wizard, go pure or go 18/2 with rogue for the evasion and trap skills.
With the new harper line, I believe you can be a pretty decent melee as 18/2 rogue (int to damage and hit, as well as other) and be a fully functioning trapper when needed to.

Sorry for being harsh, but in this game, trying crazy combinations usually isn't a good idea. (Usually isn't Always)

[unbongwah]

You lose significant DC from not having 9 level of spells, not having pale master capstone, not having lich form and other stuff.

It's -1 DC (-2 INT) for no capstone, -1 DC for no T5 PM or AM, and -1 DC (-2 INT) for no lich form (-2 DC to Necro spells). Also Heighten is worth 1 less DC since you only have lvl 8 spells. And -5 Spell Pen, ofc. That is a noticeable but not insurmountable loss if you have the gear, PLs, etc. to make up for it. Or, failing that, swallowing one's pride and running on EH instead.

As far as which race and playstyle, I would stay pale master for wraith form, and go human for the extra feat and balance. Warforged seems like a waste, especially if you go undead.

The problem is AP shortage: you need 32 APs into Acro for Staff Spec and 12 APs into Harper for KtA+Strategic Combat II; leaving only 36 APs for wiz PrEs. You could dump them all into PM, ofc, but WF split between AM and EK might work better. As you observed, the DC and Spell Pen penalties for a heavy MC will hamper Necro effectiveness. There's also the issue of feats: 7 heroic + 4 wiz + 3 epic = 14 total. Melee DPS, Energy Burst, self-buffs & repairs would be my focus; Spell Pen-dependent spells like Necro / Enchant would be a bridge too far, IMHO.

[adrian69]

Don't delude yourself about "decent spell DC", because it won't be.
You lose significant DC from not having 9 level of spells, not having pale master capstone, not having lich form and other stuff. So as far as spell casting, I would do my best to stick to no-save spells at all times, maybe go for a web here and there because it's relatively effective even with low DC, and surely I wouldn't count on any crowd control spell before I launch into a huge mob.
I would play it as carefully as a pure rogue would be and try to still be sneaky.

As far as which race and playstyle, I would stay pale master for wraith form, and go human for the extra feat and balance. Warforged seems like a waste, especially if you go undead.

If you don't wish to be undead then yeah, go WF, but necromancer seems the best option.

Also keep in mind that your sneak attack damage would be significantly lower than any pure rogue.

I suggest that if you wanna be a rogue, go pure.
If you wanna be a wizard, go pure or go 18/2 with rogue for the evasion and trap skills.
With the new harper line, I believe you can be a pretty decent melee as 18/2 rogue (int to damage and hit, as well as other) and be a fully functioning trapper when needed to.

Sorry for being harsh, but in this game, trying crazy combinations usually isn't a good idea. (Usually isn't Always)

I ran several combinations of wizard/rogue/monk/ftr a few lives ago with the aim for better DCs while casting. Well, the only decent melee wizard with decent dcs I liked were either the 18 2 monk or 2 rogue. I tried 15 3 rogue 2 monk and swapped two fighter, tried 17 wizard 2 monk 1 rogue (yeah I paid Turbine enough for them to pay someone over a few weeks).

All I can say to people that want to do necro melee with a decent DC, go 18 for Lick (helps melee with +4 con and extra negative damage) and 2 rogue with a stick or 2 monk and fist and monk PL. Oh, and fitting in int to hit/dmg on necro builds is really tough.

Otherwise, 17, 2 (evasion class), your choice, with primary AM and EK (only going for tier 3 shield barrier spell) is pretty solid, saves mana, and etc, and was more survivable at times that the others builds.

Shiradi double missiles still out blasted any melee dps I could do in epics, even with a ton of melee feats I tried out one LR. LD is ok with DCs twisted in, but still not enough.

Highest DC I could get was necro to 57ish buffed by a bard, others where 50 with feat and 48 or 49 otherwise. Things where fine in EH, most of the time, but don't get hit, it's not Tukaw.

However, if you can get TF armor, or something with +5-6 DC, plus twists, and learn to compesate between casting/melee, I think it's doable, but it's got have gear to back the build.