Idea: Wraith form PM, undead self healing, wizard buffs up to level 12, grandmaster monk stances, enhancements to use short swords based off dexterity, dual wielding fighting feats, trap monkey.
Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01 DDO Character Planner Home Page Yamatsu Level 28 Lawful Good Shadar-Kai Male (6 Monk \ 2 Rogue \ 12 Wizard \ 8 Epic) Hit Points: 340 Spell Points: 1689 BAB: 11\11\16\21 Fortitude: 13 Reflex: 20 Will: 13 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats (36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28) (Level 28) Strength 10 13 13 Dexterity 18 27 27 Constitution 15 18 18 Intelligence 18 22 22 Wisdom 8 11 11 Charisma 6 9 9 Tomes Used +3 Tome of Strength used at level 1 +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1 +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 1 +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1 +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1 +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 1 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 28) (Level 28) Balance 9 22 30 Bluff -1 -1 7 Concentration 5 22 30 Diplomacy -1 -1 7 Disable Device 9 29 37 Haggle 0 0 8 Heal 2 10 18 Hide 9 12 20 Intimidate -1 -1 7 Jump 5 8 16 Listen 0 0 8 Move Silently 9 12 20 Open Lock 9 20 28 Perform n/a n/a n/a Repair 5 6 14 Search 9 20 28 Spellcraft 7 21 29 Spot 4 12 20 Swim 1 1 9 Tumble 6 9 17 Use Magic Device 3 22 30 Level 1 (Rogue) Skill: Balance (+4) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Disable Device (+4) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Heal (+2) Skill: Hide (+4) Skill: Jump (+4) Skill: Move Silently (+4) Skill: Open Lock (+4) Skill: Search (+4) Skill: Spellcraft (+2) Skill: Spot (+4) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+4) Feat: (Selected) Dodge Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard Feat: (Automatic) Attack Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding Level 2 (Monk) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+4) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Spot (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting Feat: (Automatic) AC Bonus Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe Feat: (Automatic) The Way of Air Feat: (Automatic) The Way of Fire Feat: (Automatic) The Way of Earth Feat: (Automatic) The Way of Water Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike Level 3 (Wizard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Heal (+1) Skill: Spellcraft (+2) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness Feat: (Selected) Power Attack Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm Feat: (Automatic) Inscribe Wizard Scroll Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training Level 4 (Monk) Ability Raise: INT Skill: Balance (+2) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Heal (+0.5) Skill: Jump (+2) Skill: Spellcraft (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility Feat: (Automatic) Evasion Feat: (Automatic) Meditation Feat: (Automatic) Sunder Feat: (Automatic) Trip Level 5 (Rogue) Skill: Disable Device (+4) Skill: Open Lock (+4) Skill: Search (+4) Skill: Spot (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 6 (Monk) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Open Lock (+1) Skill: Search (+1) Skill: Spot (+2) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Cleave Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Harmonious Balance (ALL) Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Inevitable Dominion (ALL) Feat: (Automatic) Still Mind Level 7 (Wizard) Skill: Concentration (+2) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Heal (+0.5) Skill: Spellcraft (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 8 (Wizard) Ability Raise: DEX Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Heal (+1) Skill: Spellcraft (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 9 (Monk) Skill: Balance (+2) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Spot (+4) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Magic Feat: (Automatic) Slow Fall Level 10 (Monk) Skill: Balance (+2) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Open Lock (+1) Skill: Search (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Automatic) Improved Heroic Durability Feat: (Automatic) Purity of Body Level 11 (Monk) Skill: Balance (+2) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Open Lock (+1) Skill: Search (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Automatic) Adept of Forms Level 12 (Wizard) Ability Raise: DEX Skill: Concentration (+2) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Search (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms Level 13 (Wizard) Skill: Concentration (+2) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Heal (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Improved Mental Toughness Level 14 (Wizard) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Search (+1) Skill: Spellcraft (+2) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 15 (Wizard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Search (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 16 (Wizard) Ability Raise: DEX Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Heal (+2) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 17 (Wizard) Skill: Concentration (+3) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Spellcraft (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 18 (Wizard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Heal (+1) Skill: Spellcraft (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms Level 19 (Wizard) Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Heal (+1) Skill: Open Lock (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 20 (Wizard) Ability Raise: DEX Skill: Disable Device (+1) Skill: Spellcraft (+4) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 21 (Epic) Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Mental Toughness Level 22 (Epic) Level 23 (Epic) Level 24 (Epic) Ability Raise: DEX Level 25 (Epic) Level 26 (Epic) Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Mage Armor Level 27 (Epic) Feat: (Selected) Epic: Ruin Level 28 (Epic) Ability Raise: DEX Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Hellball
Results 1 to 11 of 11
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11-17-2014, 11:13 PM #1Community Member
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Build Feedback. TWF Wizard/Monk/Rogue
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11-18-2014, 01:48 AM #2Community Member
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You're splitting your focus between dex and int too much.
If you go purely dex based you use dex for:
Reflex saves, to hit, damage, twf pre-req, open lock.
If you go purely int based, you can use int for:
reflex saves (costs a feat) , to hit, damage, skills per level, spell points, spell power, know the angles, search, disable.
Personally I'd go int based if you own the harper tree, dex based if you don't.
Assuming you have harper:
Starting stats: (taking note of your +3 tomes, and 36pt build)
str 8 int 18
dex 14 wis 8
con 16 cha 12
Now lets look at your feats, at the moment they're awful. Your focusing too much on having spell points and evading damage, but will have too little capability to dish out decent damage.
Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower
Feat: (Selected) Maximise
Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Level 5 (Rogue)
Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Extend
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Light (yes light, dark will offer you virtually nothing, but light will net you 25% cheaper spells, 1 minute at a time)
Level 7 (Wizard)
Level 8 (Wizard)
Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken
Level 10 (Monk)
Level 11 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision
Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved 2WF
Level 13 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
Level 14 (Wizard)
Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical Piercing
Level 16 (Wizard)
Level 17 (Wizard)
Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Improved Mental Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Greater 2WF
Level 19 (Wizard)
Level 20 (Wizard)
Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Master of forms
Level 22 (Epic)
Level 23 (Epic)
Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical
Level 25 (Epic)
Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Perfect 2WF
Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms
Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Hellball (left in since you took it before)
Enhancements:
Spend the last 13 AP in the harper Tree:
1 Core 1
2 Harper enchantment
2 Strategic Combat
3 Know the angles
3 Versatile Adept
2 Strategic Combat IILast edited by fTdOmen; 11-18-2014 at 01:51 AM.
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11-18-2014, 08:09 PM #3Community Member
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It has to be a Dex build. Int is for Int based skills, disable, search, spellcraft.
So insightful reflexes wouldn't work.
I can't see taking empower, quicken and maxamize, I won't have the spell points to back up the cost, I would drain my sp's very quickly, when I use them for buffing and healing, and occasional aoe damage/debuff spells. I could concede replacing Imp Mental Toughness for Extend, as that would double the length of spell buffs to 24 minutes or so as a level 12 wizard.
I'm not sold on the Eldricht Knight tree, It tends to be a spell point drainer, from just basic attacks draining spellpoints.
I was thinking more of Wraith PM's, Ninja Spy dex for hit/dam short swords and poison feats, dark monk poison finishers, Shadar chain and +dodge feats.
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11-18-2014, 09:34 PM #4
Originally Posted by fTdOmen
You're splitting your focus between dex and int too much.
If you go purely dex based you use dex for:
Reflex saves, to hit, damage, twf pre-req, open lock.
If you go purely int based, you can use int for:
reflex saves (costs a feat) , to hit, damage, skills per level, spell points, spell power, know the angles, search, disable.
Personally I'd go int based if you own the harper tree, dex based if you don't.
Assuming you have harper:
Starting stats: (taking note of your +3 tomes, and 36pt build)
str 8 int 18
dex 14 wis 8
con 16 cha 12
Now lets look at your feats, at the moment they're awful. Your focusing too much on having spell points and evading damage, but will have too little capability to dish out decent damage.
Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower
Feat: (Selected) Maximise
Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Level 5 (Rogue)
Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Extend
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Light (yes light, dark will offer you virtually nothing, but light will net you 25% cheaper spells, 1 minute at a time)
Level 7 (Wizard)
Level 8 (Wizard)
Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken
Level 10 (Monk)
Level 11 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision
Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved 2WF
Level 13 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
Level 14 (Wizard)
Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical Piercing
Level 16 (Wizard)
Level 17 (Wizard)
Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Improved Mental Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Greater 2WF
Level 19 (Wizard)
Level 20 (Wizard)
Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Master of forms
Level 22 (Epic)
Level 23 (Epic)
Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical
Level 25 (Epic)
Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Perfect 2WF
Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms
Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Hellball (left in since you took it before)
Enhancements:
Spend the last 13 AP in the harper Tree:
1 Core 1
2 Harper enchantment
2 Strategic Combat
3 Know the angles
3 Versatile Adept
2 Strategic Combat III agree with Ftd--you only took TWF, for example, and not the next two in the chain. FtD's suggestion is solid, though I am not sure the build will have a high enough BAB to qualify for GTWF at level 18. It needs to be 11. Originally Posted by Meko99
Your other option is to go staff--you can invest in the acrobat tree and get a big boost to dex with shadow toggle, staff boosts etc. In wraith form the tier 5 is less useful in PM line. You will need to self-cast Tensor's and maintain it--so conserving sp is very improtant. Not sure if you have enough AP but maybe 22ish in PM, 32ish in TA, 11 in archmage illusion, etc. As a staff wielder the feats get easier.
EK has some useful defensive stuff and the weapon toggle can be turned on just for boss fights if you are worried about sp.
I am running a dex-based 6 monk/7 wiz/ 7 rogue but am using the perma Tensors from EK.
I also suggest you make a con Opp greensteel item and actually put Hp on it since wiz levels give lousy hpWiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links. LONG LIVE STEALTH!
Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main) and some others typically parked at some level to help guildies and other players
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11-18-2014, 11:00 PM #5Community Member
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I have a second build I been working on too for staff, it requires 3 rogue minimal to use dex for hit/dam with quarterstaves.
Hmm thought I had Imp Two Weapon Fighting in the build...
But yeah this build doesn't meet some of the requirements FTdomen suggests.
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11-18-2014, 11:12 PM #6Community Member
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I'm assuming it has to be a dex build because you don't have harper? Pity, focusing purely on int would have worked out slightly better. Originally Posted by Meko99
If you're going dex, given you have +3 tomes stop at base 17 int, don't dedicate any level ups to it. That will leave you enough skill points for search/disable/umd/spellcraft. Only pick up open locks during your 2 rogue levels, on a dex build you won't need max ranks anyway. [note. I hate that shadarkai don't get the human skill point per level bonus]
As for the poison finishers, forget about them. They're based on landing Touch of Despair [for you that's (DC 10 + Monk level(3) + Wisdom modifier(maybe up to 10)) ie. max 23]. As you start at level 15 you won't be landing touch of despair on much, even on normal.
The main reason I've suggested so many metamagics in there is because your BAB is so low, you don't have the required BAB for good physical feats till much later, so I'm stuck picking up casting feats at low levels, whilst still having to leave room for wizard bonus feats later on.
Anyway I definately wouldn't recommend using quicken on everything, nor the meta's, but for energy burst, there will be "oh shoot" situations where being able to fire off a quickened, maxed empower burst will save your life. As for the Aura's I would simply just use maximise on those, no quicken or empower. There's definately room to drop empower for mobilty if you prefer.
I'm not overly sure what your objection to eldritch knight is.
Spellsword Toggle = 1 sp every 6 seconds. It's a toggle, you don't have to use it, but when you do, you'll gain (3d4 damage)
Eldritch strike costs sp, but it's a melee aoe cleave, again you don't have to use it, but it certainly comes in handy. The force damage is inresased by your spell power too.
Improved Mage Armor / Improved Shield SLA's cost less than the actuall spells whilst giving useful benefits.
Nothing else I suggested in the tree costs spell points, but still nets you 15hp, +4% double strike, emergency damage absorption, +7 spell power.
Is this more to your liking? (note. I'm not picking up mobility, as I'm fairly sure you'll eventually hit the dodge cap without it)
Starting Stats: (all level ups into dex)
8 str, 17 int
19 dex, 8 wis
14 con, 10 cha
Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Deflect Arrows
Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximise
Feat: (Selected) Sorc Pastlife instead of epic mental toughness, this frees up a High BAB feat slot for physical feats.
Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Level 5 (Rogue)
Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Extend
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Light
Level 7/8 (Wizard)
Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken
Level 10 (Monk)
Level 11 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision
Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved 2WF
Level 13 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
Level 14 (Wizard)
Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical Piercing
Level 16/17 (Wizard)
Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Improved Mental Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Master of forms
Level 19/20 (Wizard)
Level 21 (Epic) Feat: (Selected) Greater 2WF
Level 24 (Epic) Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical
Level 26 (Epic) Feat: (Epic Destiny) Perfect 2WF
Level 27 (Epic) Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms
Level 28 (Epic) Feat: (Epic Destiny) Hellball
Good catch, I fixed that up above. Originally Posted by Saekee
Also, looking at it in further depth, I agree that 10% extra incorp isn't as good as t5 in EK, If I were building a dex version, I'd probably go for this. (note, I'm not sure getting displacement as an SLA is worth it over 15PRR from shintao, enhancements are easily swapped though, so it's not a big deal either way)
Last edited by fTdOmen; 11-19-2014 at 01:56 AM.
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11-18-2014, 11:58 PM #7Community Member
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I took a higher Int, because I wanted to meet the minimum for disable devices in EH possibly EE, so 70 to 80 including buffs.
Some interesting points on the touch of despair.
I built this class with a Shadar, only a 32pt build though, It worked pretty well. I been flying through the eveningstar quests like they were nothing. But there is certainly room for improvement.
The overall plan here was to make a dark monk who can buff, heal themselves and make as many dice roll defenses as mathematically possible. Incorporal, dodge, blur, area defenses. ability to drop some aoe damage spells, firewall ect and then fight inside it, Which I did to that end boss fight in eveningstar with the owl bear boss and its friends. That was good fun, they didn't do any damage to me with death aura on. Constant regen.
I'm not 100% set on TWF or THF, both seem viable. I do like all the bonuses to quarterstaff in the monk and rogue feats, but the 3 rogue would mean either losing Wraith form. or losing the free Adept of Forms from Monk 6. So much give and take here, which is part of the fun of figuring out how to make it a viable build.
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11-19-2014, 12:40 AM #8Community Member
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I've been assuming 36pt, because in your op, you've got the wizard and sorc paslives shown in your feat list. Originally Posted by Meko99
I wouldn't go dex based on staves with a wraith build. I'd dump dex down to 13 for dodge / deflect arrows. Get insightful reflexes and stick with str for to hit / damage. That way you can stick with a 12/6/2 without losing anything significant.
If your seriously planning on building for EH / EE though, get harper favor next update, that tree has huge payoffs for melee wizies and only requires a 2 tier investment.
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11-19-2014, 01:32 AM #9Community Member
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Personally I'm fine with EK stuff, but as far as I could tell the spellsword toggle does NOT scale with spell power. Are you seeing differently? So he can only expect the 3d4 elemental from the toggle. The strikes do scale. Originally Posted by fTdOmen
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11-19-2014, 01:57 AM #10Community Member
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You're right, I was seeing it differently and incorrectly. Originally Posted by hit_fido
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11-20-2014, 10:33 PM #11Community Member
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Yes the finalized build will be 36pt, with +3 tomes in all stats at level 1.
My 32pt build was a test for for level 15. even with the gear that is focused on rogue it worked pretty well, but like I said it still needs adjustments, which is why this thread exists.
I've played a caster almost exclusively in my time in DDO, (years) Magic I understand..
I have a paladin up to 18, which isn't a great build and more or less generic with a few bad feat/skill choices.
I have a monk/rogue that is only level 10 and those are kind of my interests in trying a wizard/monk/rogue build.
I've looked into a wizard warrior, but EK enhancements are not enough on their own to a melee wizard viable. It requires feats and building from the ground up.
I was looking into Shadar because its new and I want to try it out. The +3 dodge and slashing/bleeding/knock down chain seems fun as well. The DC seems reasonable from feedback i've read and heard and the math that it's usable in up to EH on a strong dex build. but more or less just a free damage clickie on bosses, most reds and everything in EE. Personal opinion though, it sure is fun to run into a room full of breakable barrels with a few mobs in it and whip it around. knocking everyone down and bleeding them while smashing all the barrels, then pounce on them while helpless and stab them to death viciously.
I doubt I will need mobility or spring attack. my test build with just dodge and some enhancements was already up to 21% dodge at level 15, with 40ac.
Since my DC will be to low to really warrant any finishing move types landing or being remotely effective, I planned on taking Fists of Iron to spend my Ki on a +3[w] damage dice, +1 critical threat range, +1 crit multipler hit.
So defently going path of light since the only finishing moves I can use are buff ones that do not require a DC check against a mob.
I'll play around with the creator tonight after work, see if I can do forceful chain + dodge in Shadar, wraith PM, perm Tensers and the ninja spy feats needed for hit/dam on shortswords using dex.
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