U24 - Frenzied Berserker Update

[KookieKobold]

Post your feedback here about the updated Frenzied Berserker tree

[thegreatfox]

Storm's Eye still deals it's damage over time. Since any mention of damage over time was removed from it's description I thought it was removed from the ability as well and I hope this is just a bug and not intentional.

Very happy that the feat requirements were removed for some of the tier 5 abilities.

The release notes say healing amp has been doubled for most effects. What would be something that it ISN'T doubled for now? My 30% item still says it is a 30% item, but is it actually 60 now?

[poltt48]

This enhancement line needs more dps I do more going full ravenger then this line. How come any enhancement that procs from this tree and ravanger tree makes me unable to use rage. Whole point of a barb is rage and now I have abilities in my enhancement lines that make me unable to use rage. Last how come they removed str from my choices I was a str half orc barb but I get 3 points more in rage for str but nothing else in this tree or any other. All abilities now say they based on con why the hell is that?

[XxJFGxX]

The Wade In add on to supreme cleave is still useless. Honestly what barb would need extra to hit when he has no problem hitting mobs whatsoever? Lash Out add on is pointless since it doesn't apply melee power to it. So with all stacks applied it does maybe 30 points of bleeding if that.

[lyrecono]

now that lamania is, up i took my barb out for a spin,

the dps is still too low
capstone is not worth it, first EE room still takes you donwn to many hit points
mind you, that was with with 200+prr and around 100mrr, something a first life undergeared barb most likely won't reach.
the capsone needs to be reworked.
the heal amp was nice i guess, now please remove the silver flame debuf

Also, not enough dps.

the bleeding damage from lash out was laugheble and not worth the point investment. especialy for a tier 5 from a dps tree of a dps class.
Tantrum's cooldown is far too long.
Blood trail? realy, first you make us hurt ourselfs and now we get the option of paying even more points to make the hurting go away? this didn't work for fighters and paladins (the run speed penalty removing enhancement), this weird con game won't work here either.
storm eye is pathetic, the dps would have been welcome if you could actualy keep it, now you're a mummy avanger, dragons breath, fireball a few hits from an EE mob, etc away from loosing it
Wade in, if you need this you need a heart of wood, stop playing in content thats too high for you and start collecting tokens of the 12
Exhausting blow, doesn't help in high lv content, so kinda fails.

Bad design turbine, barbarians already give up superior multiclas options to take barbarian to lv 12/18/20 but gain nothing worthy in return.

:also needs more dps, we expect sustaineble dps from a dps capstone in a dps tree from a dps class. i currently get more reliable dps by taking 2 fighter (18barb/2 fighter) and gaining stunning blow and heavy armor proficiency.


edit:
why put so much effort in a "dps" tree of a "dps" class to get them to do more damage whille using a 2handed weapon, using cleaves. You develop this class that is supposed to be surrounded by mobs so he can use cleaves, so he can use 2 handed weapons, so he can use the angry arms, mad munitions and focus wide enhancement line. then you make a capstone that he looses because he has to be in the thick of things in order to fullfill his party role, whats next? making all the arcane sla's in to melee touch attack and have m loose elemental and undead stances when they reach 50% hp?

[maddong]

I have previously called for nerfs in other things but I'm not sure you have buffed barbarians enough (given their lack of reconstruct/cocoon).

I think if you took something that was roughly equal to a paladin or bard then added the +25 melee power/400 damage on 20's (due to lack of reconstruct/cocoon) then you are probably talking.

Compared to what you get with /3 bard or /14 paladin it seems that the barbarian tier 5s are roughly equal to the + threat from those options.

But +1 crit mult is worth a 40% pre crit damage increase (assuming a 13-20 crit range eventually)... the equivalent would be +4 crit mult on 19-20. So if you are not trying to lead a barbarian to any specific weapon then you probably need to throw in a much higher + crit mult on 19-20.

I would suggest spreading it around so that every barbarian isn't required to play a frenzied berserker.

Maybe death frenzy stays at +1 crit mult on 19-20.
All level 18 barbarians get +1 crit mult on 19-20.
All level 20 barbarians get +2 crit mult on 19-20.

That way if someone ignores frenzied berserker (ie they lose +1 crit mult 19-20, +25 melee power, and 400 on a 20) they can at least do pretty comparable damage to a paladin or bard....

[GWolfe]

I have previously called for nerfs in other things but I'm not sure you have buffed barbarians enough (given their lack of reconstruct/cocoon).

I think if you took something that was roughly equal to a paladin or bard then added the +25 melee power/400 damage on 20's (due to lack of reconstruct/cocoon) then you are probably talking.

Compared to what you get with /3 bard or /14 paladin it seems that the barbarian tier 5s are roughly equal to the + threat from those options.

But +1 crit mult is worth a 40% pre crit damage increase (assuming a 13-20 crit range eventually)... the equivalent would be +4 crit mult on 19-20. So if you are not trying to lead a barbarian to any specific weapon then you probably need to throw in a much higher + crit mult on 19-20.

I would suggest spreading it around so that every barbarian isn't required to play a frenzied berserker.

Maybe death frenzy stays at +1 crit mult on 19-20.
All level 18 barbarians get +1 crit mult on 19-20.
All level 20 barbarians get +2 crit mult on 19-20.

That way if someone ignores frenzied berserker (ie they lose +1 crit mult 19-20, +25 melee power, and 400 on a 20) they can at least do pretty comparable damage to a paladin or bard....

I agree. My initial impression of barb Dps does not seem enough to compensate barbarian play style, my brother and I were taking some time to check out the dps and it still seems to be less than either his two handed or my sword & board vangaurd Paladin. I like the Idea of an even higher crit on 19-20 as I have said in the other Ravager thread. I also don't like the on crit benefit from both crazy strike and laughter, imo those should both be permanent buffs. Or at least the buff from Laughter. Either that or the cooldown for those attacks should only be 12 seconds at the most.

[HatsuharuZ]

"Blood Trail" seems a bit expensive to me. After all, it only affects a single ability, and has two different enhancements as perequisites.

[Blackheartox]

Good thing that you fixed the initial idea of tribute, but issue is still that barb does no real dps with what the class main goal should be.
Im not impressed by it at all, it will be a glasscannon type of class no matter what you do, then why not add the cannon part to it?
All you are doing is adding thicker glass and letting the cannon fade away and collect rust.
More dps is needed in all 3 trees and berserker should stay as it is with eye change since it has no benefit for this class at all currently

[IronClan]

Not enough DPS to make Rage worth clicking. hate the 1 minute death frenzy and all the various durations and buffs to mind constantly...

Honestly kinda sick and tied of keeping up a dozen different clickies at all times say a crit rage build:

click off defender stance (to allow rage)
click on Know the angles or Divine Might (1:20 duration)
click rage (duration variable usually quite a few minutes)
click primal scream (duration 3 minutes)
click on defender stance back on (duration toggle)

Start to figh... Hey where'd everybody go?

click sprint boost to catch up
start to fight
click damage boot (duration 20 seconds)
click know the angles/DM again (can you start these while raged? I'll be honest I've not played a barb since they were put in)
click masters blitz
click damage boost again
Time to cast Primal scream again
dismiss defender stance
click primal scream
restart defender stance...

Does someone at Turbine think this is fun? I realize there are clickie junkys like Cetus who love minding a bewildering number of short buff timers (throw Displacement clickies and Tensor's scrolls into this mix if you're inclined), and they currently have every option under the sun to build with. Heck for what it's worth I do my best to keep everything up myself on my builds. but I'm guessing a LOT of people would love some choices that do not require minding timers. The problem is DDO does not actually OFFER any choices in the matter... and I mean ANY choices... Almost every character needs to be spamming cleaves, keeping 1 2 3, 5, 8 or 15 minute buffs going at all times, and hitting defensive mitigation clickies and boosts. Even the one class you would think would be brainless hack and slashing is oveflowing with clickies...

Enough already offer us some options that don't require carpal tunnel syndrome, even if those optional abilities result in less DPS than a perfectly clickified build.

[lyrecono]

just did the new pack on EE with random peeps on lama

same coclusions i had earlier, but with a nice piece of grieving
the cleric in the party kept healing me after the quest finished, this way the stormeye kept me from recalling, i had to /death to get out real nice programming

[Seikojin]

Before this devolves too much...
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...serker-Changes

Greetings!

This is the first in a series of posts outlining our plans for the update to Barbarians. The design behind these changes is that Barbarian DPS is largely in a good state, but they lack mitigation and healers don't like that they take so much healing. The idea behind these changes is to make Barbarians tougher through sheer hit point bonuses, give them enough healing amplification so healing them doesn't feel like a healing sink, and adding 5th tier healing to help sustain them during dungeons.


Here are the proposed changes for Barbarian's Frenzied Berserker tree for Update 24.

(If you see "---" that means text was removed; likely a penalty or condition.)



Die Hard: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 1). You gain the Die Hard feat, and automatically stabilize when incapacitated.

Toughness: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 3). +20 hit points, and +10 healing amplification.

Frenzy: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 6). Activation Cost: 10 Hit Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds. Enter a frenzy, increasing your strength by +2. Your melee attacks do an additional +2d6 damage. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power. Passive: You gain +5 Melee Power.

Toughness: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 12). You gain 5 Physical Resist Rating. You gain +60 hit points and +20 healing amplification.

Death Frenzy: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 18). Activation Cost: 20 Hit Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds. Expend 20 hit points to enter a Death Frenzy for one minute. You gain 4 strength. You increase your crit multiplier on a 19-20 by an additional 1 when raging. Your melee attacks now do an additional +4d6 damage. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power. Passive: You gain +10 Melee Power.

Storm’s Eye: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 20). Activate: You gain +1 melee damage. --- This damage bonus gains one stack every six seconds, up to 25 stacks. This ends when you are below 50% health. Activation Cost: 100 Hit Points. Cooldown: 3 minutes. Passive: You gain +4 Constitution. You gain +10 Melee Power. When Raging your melee attacks that roll a 20 do an extra 400 damage. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.


Tier One

Extra Rage: (1/1/1 AP). +1/+2/+3 Rage use per rest

Cracking Attack: Melee Attack: Deals +1/+2/+3[W] extra damage. Damaging enemies reduces their AC by -1/-2/-3 for 20 seconds. ---(Activation Cost: 5 Hit Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds)

Die Harder: Your range of unconsciousness extends +5/+10/+15 HP. When you drop below 1 health, you gain 10/20/30 temp hitpoints. This can only trigger once every five minutes.

Power Rage: +1/+2/+3 Strength --- while raging

Athletics: +1/+2/+3 Balance, Jump, Swim. Rank 3: When you activate Barbarian Rage, you gain +35% Action Boost bonus to movement speed for 20 seconds.


Tier Two (Requires Barbarian Level 2, 5 APs spent in tree)

Angry Arms: (Requires: Two Handed Fighting, 1/1/1 AP) +1%/+2%/+3% chance of triggering weapon effects on glancing blows and +3%/+4%/+5% glancing blow damage.

Body Blow: (1/1/1 AP) Damaging enemies with Cracking Attack reduces their Fortitude saving throws by 1/2/3 for 20 seconds.

Blood Tribute: (1/1/1 AP) Gain +50/+100/+150 Temporary Health for one minute. This scales with 400% Melee Power. You have a stacking -1 penalty to constitution until you rest or die. (Cooldown: 3 seconds)

Extra Action Boost: (1/1/1 AP) +1/+2/+3 additional Action Boost use per rest.

Sprint Boost: (1/1/1 AP) +35%/40%/50% Action Boost bonus to movement speed for 20 seconds. Cooldown: 30 seconds.



Tier Three (Requires Barbarian Level 3, 10 APs spent in tree)

Mad Munitions: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: Greater Two Handed Fighting, Angry Arms) +1%/+2%/+3% chance of triggering weapon effects on glancing blows and +3%/+4%/+5% glancing blow damage


Blood Trail: (2 AP, Requires: Blood Tribute, Supreme Cleave) Supreme Cleave no longer has a hit point cost. You gain 2 Melee Power.

Supreme Cleave: (1/1/1 AP) Tactical Melee Cleave: Expend 10 hit points to activate this ability to attack enemies around you. This attack deals +1/+2/+3[W] damage. (Activation Cost: 10 Hit Points, affected by Dungeon Scaling. Cooldown: 9/6/3 seconds)

Strength/Constitution: (2 AP) +1 Strength or Constitution



Tier Four (Requires Barbarian Level 4, 20 APs spent in tree)

Crazy Strike: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: Body Blow) When you score a --- hit with Cracking Attack, for 12 seconds you gain +0.3/+0,6/+1[W] damage and 1/2/3 Melee Power.

Exhausting Blow: (1/1/1 AP) Melee Attack: Deals +2/+3/+4[W], 1d6/2d6/3d6 Strength, and 1d6/2d6/3d6 Dexterity damage. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)

Wade In: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: Supreme Cleave) When you Supreme Cleave, you gain +1 Primal bonus to Attack --- per enemy damaged, up to 3/6/10 maximum. Lasts for 4 seconds.

Strength/Constitution: (2 AP) +1 Strength or Constitution


Tier Five (Requires Barbarian Level 5, Character Level 12, 30 APs spent in tree)

Focus Wide: (2 AP, Requires: Mad Munitions) When you score a vorpal hit, you increase your chance of triggering weapon effects with glancing blows by +10% and gain +10% glancing blow damage for 12 seconds.

Focused Wrath: (2/2 AP) While raging, increases the critical multiplier of all weapons you use by 1/2 when you roll a natural 19 or 20 that is a confirmed crit hit.

Lash Out: (1/1/1 AP) Supreme Cleave has a 50%/75%/82% chance to cause bleeding to damaged enemies, inflicting up to 1/2/3 stacks. This can stack up to 5 times. Your Supreme Cleave also reduces the AC of enemies by 1/2/3 for six seconds. This stacks up to five times.

Multi-selector: (2 AP)

Accelerated Metabolism: While raging you heal 2d6 hit points every 4 seconds. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power.

Raging Blows: While raging your melee attacks gain +1[W] to damage.


Tantrum: (2 AP) Tactical Melee Cleave: Expend 25 hit points to activate this ability and attack enemies around you. This deals +5[W] damage and has a 50% to knock down each damage enemy briefly on a failed Fortitude save vs. 10 + Strength modifier + Barbarian Level. Abilities that trigger on Supreme Cleave also trigger on Tantrum. (Blood Trail, Wade In, Lash Out, Sundering Spin, Storm's Eye)


Sev~

This tree needs more healing options since the healing amp caps at 50. Perhaps more hp in the cores. Or the healing amp boost for the tier 5 ability mentioned below.

Change death frenzy to just offer a +1 to multiplier while using death frenzy. Make it non stacking with other crit multiplier abilities. Have it get an additional +1 on 19's and another +1 on 20's (yes +3 multiplier on a nat 20, or on 19 and 20 if you have perfect swf).

Change storms eye to be while raged your melee attacks are all cleaves. This essentially means no glancing blows while pure barb capstone raged.

Blood tribute, remove the con penalty. Have it consume a rage. Or better yet, have it throw you into a rage with boosted HP on top of all the other rage stuff. Have the hp last for the rage.

Blood trail currently is 2/2/2 for - 3, 6, or 10 hp from the supreme cleave cost. This is fine.

Wade in should trigger a rage and the damage boost should last that long.

Focused wrath: make it increase threat range by 1/2 while raging, third tier added to make it +3 threat range after vorpals while raging. Lasts until rage ends.

Ragin blows should offer +2[W] and +20 healing amp.

[maddong]

I really like the idea of blood tribute giving you the temp hp on rage!

[Qhualor]

Not enough DPS to make Rage worth clicking. hate the 1 minute death frenzy and all the various durations and buffs to mind constantly...

Honestly kinda sick and tied of keeping up a dozen different clickies at all times say a crit rage build:

click off defender stance (to allow rage)
click on Know the angles or Divine Might (1:20 duration)
click rage (duration variable usually quite a few minutes)
click primal scream (duration 3 minutes)
click on defender stance back on (duration toggle)

Start to figh... Hey where'd everybody go?

click sprint boost to catch up
start to fight
click damage boot (duration 20 seconds)
click know the angles/DM again (can you start these while raged? I'll be honest I've not played a barb since they were put in)
click masters blitz
click damage boost again
Time to cast Primal scream again
dismiss defender stance
click primal scream
restart defender stance...

Does someone at Turbine think this is fun? I realize there are clickie junkys like Cetus who love minding a bewildering number of short buff timers (throw Displacement clickies and Tensor's scrolls into this mix if you're inclined), and they currently have every option under the sun to build with. Heck for what it's worth I do my best to keep everything up myself on my builds. but I'm guessing a LOT of people would love some choices that do not require minding timers. The problem is DDO does not actually OFFER any choices in the matter... and I mean ANY choices... Almost every character needs to be spamming cleaves, keeping 1 2 3, 5, 8 or 15 minute buffs going at all times, and hitting defensive mitigation clickies and boosts. Even the one class you would think would be brainless hack and slashing is oveflowing with clickies...

Enough already offer us some options that don't require carpal tunnel syndrome, even if those optional abilities result in less DPS than a perfectly clickified build.

most of these isn't related to the class or the tree. the only annoying thing I have is remembering to click frenzy each minute.

[Qhualor]

Change storms eye to be while raged your melee attacks are all cleaves. This essentially means no glancing blows while pure barb capstone raged.

this make no sense in a AOE tree. wouldn't make sense to take glancing blow enhancements in the tree to not be able to have glancing blows from the capstone or take the feats, but all your attacks are considered cleaves while raged?

[poltt48]

My half orc barb does terrible damage. If I do dwarf barb con based damage though do double damage a str based half orc does though.

[Scrabbler]

u24 Frenzied Berserker feedbacks:

• The Frenzy and Death Frenzy effects say they make your attacks "Vicious". It is incorrect to use the word "Vicious" for any effect that doesn't cause self-damage on every hit.
  
  
• The user interface for Frenzy and Death Frenzy is terrible, and now that there's no self-damage it's unjustifiable. At minimum, please switch it to double duration (and double cost). For better results, change them to work like EK Spellsword toggle (cost in hp instead of sp).

[lyrecono]

Sev?
are you guys reading all of the above?
The Frenzied berzerker needs more work.


on a side note:

My half orc barb does terrible damage. If I do dwarf barb con based damage though do double damage a str based half orc does though.

that's strange, a half orc Frenzied Berzerker should, at least on paper, do more damage, they gain more bonuses to str then con and with the high str they can trip (LD mom swing or lay waste) and stun better then a dwarf and gain 20% extra damage from that. maybe a separate topic with a side by side comparison is needed.

[lyrecono]

can we get some dev feedback on the fb feedback page?
Doesn't have to be a new tree posted but a simple message stating that they read it and working on fixing it would help

[Scrabbler]

This is as good a place as any for it:

• After the recent buff to PRR + MRR, and a little relaxing of Barb feat requirements, it is now too attractive for Barbarians to equip Heavy Armor, even if it costs a feat. The only good reason for a Barbarian to not use Heavy Armor is if you're multiclassed into Rogue or Bard. They need to add some enhancements which work better in non-Heavy armor.
  
  Previously, the class's Uncanny Dodge bonuses mostly cancelled out the advantages of equipping Heavy Armor. But now that heavier armor defends against Fireball and so forth, it's clearly the better choice.