Barbarian Nerfs Already or Release Notes Wrong?

[maddong]

From the release notes it looks like they put back the vicious damage in FB.
Blood tribute isn't affected by melee power (but it looks like they made FOTW adrenaline not MP to fix the balance of things like that).
Blood strength dropped to 1 base HP healing per hit (was proposed at 4 last I heard).

The language on death frenzy still doesn't mention 19-20 like it should.

[Qhualor]

i noticed this too but i was too lazy to post about it.

[BigErkyKid]

i noticed this too but i was too lazy to post about it.

My impression is that people have given up on barbarians.

There was a lot of talk of how they would not be good enough to match the current FOTM classes even in the previous and more powerful iteration.

Now they have been nerfed. So why even bother giving feedback?

Barbarian lovers will roll them because now they are a bit better and the rest will stick to whatever other builds are more powerful.

[lyrecono]

i haven't given up and neither have a few others on the boards, the problem is that the dev's don't seem to understand their own game, and give the players the feeling they have given up on them.
big offenders are the lousy FB capstone, the worthless supreme cleave damage reducer, the bad self healing and the list goes on.......

[Annyee]

i haven't given up and neither have a few others on the boards, the problem is that the dev's don't seem to understand their own game, and give the players the feeling they have given up on them.
big offenders are the lousy FB capstone, the worthless supreme cleave damage reducer, the bad self healing and the list goes on.......

Dev's not understanding their own game is THE problem in DDo. Nothing will get fixed until that changes.

[Qhualor]

My impression is that people have given up on barbarians.

There was a lot of talk of how they would not be good enough to match the current FOTM classes even in the previous and more powerful iteration.

Now they have been nerfed. So why even bother giving feedback?

Barbarian lovers will roll them because now they are a bit better and the rest will stick to whatever other builds are more powerful.

I don't think people have necessarily given up. I think its more the changes we were hoping for are not being done. The changes are underwhelming to some and certain key flavor aspects are not being improved. Its not exactly a direction I was hoping for, but these changes are still buffing the class as a whole. Its just going to boil down to picking a build with comparable DPS, better survivability and saves or playing a class more for the flavor relying on penalty pots or warping a class investing in a blue bar for better self healing.

Whenever I log onto Lama I do see a lot of people huddled around the barb trainer. For me, I wasn't expecting to not have a TR cache so my plan for a realistic barb build relying on SF pots with not much BIS gear has been a little time consuming to put it all together. I'll have more time to do this over the weekend though.

[XxJFGxX]

I don't think people have necessarily given up. I think its more the changes we were hoping for are not being done. The changes are underwhelming to some and certain key flavor aspects are not being improved. Its not exactly a direction I was hoping for, but these changes are still buffing the class as a whole. Its just going to boil down to picking a build with comparable DPS, better survivability and saves or playing a class more for the flavor relying on penalty pots or warping a class investing in a blue bar for better self healing.

Whenever I log onto Lama I do see a lot of people huddled around the barb trainer. For me, I wasn't expecting to not have a TR cache so my plan for a realistic barb build relying on SF pots with not much BIS gear has been a little time consuming to put it all together. I'll have more time to do this over the weekend though.

The problem is that for the most part the devs either lost touch of what's viable and/or don't care. For example "Wade In" from the FB tree, alot of people say that it is garbage (which it is) and needs to be changed to make it worth spending AP into it and yet after the first preview and second preview nothing is changed about it whatsoever. The only change I see in the FB tree is if you are a pure class 25 melee power, 10 prr in the cores with the reduction of most of the extra hp and heal amp from the cores. The hit recoil from the frenzies has been removed which was long overdue and the bane damage from them to mobs scale with melee power.

Now the ACTUAL tree. Spending 9 AP total to reduce supreme cleave hp cost to zero. Blood tribute was good until it was changed to 150 temp hp with every epic level gives you an extra +25 temp hp. So at level 28 you would get +350 temp for sacrificing 1 con. Meh. Lash Out's feat cost is removed but still a waste of AP because even with the max 5 stacks the bleed damage is only doing a meager 22 points. Raging blows/ Accelerated metabolism is not bad but imo needs more. And lastly Tantrum. The feat requirements are removed but still a waste of AP. The cooldown is still way too long and the DC of Tantrum is not effected by vertigo items, etc. So the DC of it on a pure barb would be completely weak.

[Uska]

i haven't given up and neither have a few others on the boards, the problem is that the dev's don't seem to understand their own game, and give the players the feeling they have given up on them.
big offenders are the lousy FB capstone, the worthless supreme cleave damage reducer, the bad self healing and the list goes on.......

Barbs should be damage dealers and soakers but not healers of any kind

[XxJFGxX]

Barbs should be damage dealers and soakers but not healers of any kind

Thing is they are not even that. :/

[Uska]

Thing is they are not even that. :/

No I have said all along that they need their damage soaking and dealing boosted but I am 10000000000000000000000000000000% against them gaining healing abilities and healing amp

[goodspeed]

I don't care *** they do with them. Until the barb can support itself 100% in gameplay, it's a gimp. Because no cleric, favored, pally, druid, or class with cocoon still twisted (the year of the robot has overtaken) is gonna whip one as they charge forward into the next 8 mobs on ee.

So until a lv 18 potion becomes available for PLAT! that has even half the effects of a heal scroll; they're self gimping compared to pretty much anything. Hell a warchanter splash is badass now. (Though looking at it with SD, heavy armor and splits. I'd say they're really close for dmg compared to the pallys HS, and definitely easily overtake them in defense 2 handed style (and of course 1 handed lol)

Once the update after next comes and they kill my beloved splashes then it'll be more in line dmg wise.

[lyrecono]

doubt that the dev's are still reading the feadback guys

[Steelstar]

doubt that the dev's are still reading the feadback guys

Read by a dev. We're almost always reading feedback. Now, as to the OP's questions:

From the release notes it looks like they put back the vicious damage in FB.
Blood tribute isn't affected by melee power (but it looks like they made FOTW adrenaline not MP to fix the balance of things like that).
Blood strength dropped to 1 base HP healing per hit (was proposed at 4 last I heard).

The language on death frenzy still doesn't mention 19-20 like it should.

The self-inflicted damage from Vicious should be gone in the current Lamannia build, as well as U24 when it hits Live.
The design of Blood Tribute changed from the original design, it no longer scales with Melee Power (and instead grows into Epic levels).
The current design of Blood Strength is: 20% chance of healing your Barbarian level on-hit, 100% chance of healing 20HP on kill. These both scale with 100% Melee Power.
The 19-20 will be listed in Death Frenzy when U24 goes live.

[fmalfeas]

I don't care *** they do with them. Until the barb can support itself 100% in gameplay, it's a gimp. Because no cleric, favored, pally, druid, or class with cocoon still twisted (the year of the robot has overtaken) is gonna whip one as they charge forward into the next 8 mobs on ee.

So until a lv 18 potion becomes available for PLAT! that has even half the effects of a heal scroll; they're self gimping compared to pretty much anything.

How about Elixir of Greater Healing? ML15, works on EVERYTHING (if you're forged, counts as repair, if undead, counts a neg energy, for everyone else, counts as positive energy), Heals 50 HP plus 10-20 HP every 2 seconds for 10 seconds. Get it for Swaying Mushroom Spore Pods (2 per pot) or Vol Prayer Charms (3 per pot). Both are stupidly easy to farm in huge quantities which is why I have hundreds of Elixir of Greater Healing sitting around.

So, with the new barb Hamp + Hamp gear, how high can they get? With just 100% hamp, that's 100hp + 20-40 every 2 seconds for 10 seconds for a total of 200-300 HP back without any of the SF pot drawbacks or favor grinding. And unlike scrolls or cocoon, you don't have to be out of Rage to use it, so you still have the new barb rage-heals, and get to keep your Rage-driven DPS stuff. All without touching the store.

(Best source of spore pods, btw, is Assault on Summerfield. Vol Prayer Charms is Necro 1 quests. Particularly the one with the nutty amounts of zombies and the 'Vessel of Faith' zombies. Drops like candy there, and can even get you some Abbot's Rings, for Restoration Pots and Deathward Pots that don't require farming comms in Eveningstar.)

[dunklezhan]

I don't care *** they do with them. Until the barb can support itself 100% in gameplay, it's a gimp. Because no cleric, favored, pally, druid, or class with cocoon still twisted (the year of the robot has overtaken) is gonna whip one as they charge forward into the next 8 mobs on ee.

I would. Because I enjoy teamwork.

However, I agree that higher level healing potions really are hilariously missing from the game at this point.

[Seikojin]

I don't care *** they do with them. Until the barb can support itself 100% in gameplay, it's a gimp. Because no cleric, favored, pally, druid, or class with cocoon still twisted (the year of the robot has overtaken) is gonna whip one as they charge forward into the next 8 mobs on ee.

So until a lv 18 potion becomes available for PLAT! that has even half the effects of a heal scroll; they're self gimping compared to pretty much anything. Hell a warchanter splash is badass now. (Though looking at it with SD, heavy armor and splits. I'd say they're really close for dmg compared to the pallys HS, and definitely easily overtake them in defense 2 handed style (and of course 1 handed lol)

Once the update after next comes and they kill my beloved splashes then it'll be more in line dmg wise.

Honestly, it is unfortunate that each class should be able to solo everything on ee. Or at least, that is what I feel you are saying. Perhaps barbs need a way to drink faster? Or drink more pots at a time? Maybe an ability to smash healing pots on their head that have a 2 or 3 second cooldown separate from pots, so they can drink one, then smash one?

[Thar]

How about Elixir of Greater Healing? ML15, works on EVERYTHING (if you're forged, counts as repair, if undead, counts a neg energy, for everyone else, counts as positive energy), Heals 50 HP plus 10-20 HP every 2 seconds for 10 seconds. Get it for Swaying Mushroom Spore Pods (2 per pot) or Vol Prayer Charms (3 per pot). Both are stupidly easy to farm in huge quantities which is why I have hundreds of Elixir of Greater Healing sitting around.

So, with the new barb Hamp + Hamp gear, how high can they get? With just 100% hamp, that's 100hp + 20-40 every 2 seconds for 10 seconds for a total of 200-300 HP back without any of the SF pot drawbacks or favor grinding. And unlike scrolls or cocoon, you don't have to be out of Rage to use it, so you still have the new barb rage-heals, and get to keep your Rage-driven DPS stuff. All without touching the store.

(Best source of spore pods, btw, is Assault on Summerfield. Vol Prayer Charms is Necro 1 quests. Particularly the one with the nutty amounts of zombies and the 'Vessel of Faith' zombies. Drops like candy there, and can even get you some Abbot's Rings, for Restoration Pots and Deathward Pots that don't require farming comms in Eveningstar.)

why would you want to spend your time farming **** to get heal pots. Devs need to provide a high end option to buy them for plat as op suggests. make it a favor reward for the 12 or something with no neg effects like the other pots.

[Thar]

Honestly, it is unfortunate that each class should be able to solo everything on ee. Or at least, that is what I feel you are saying. Perhaps barbs need a way to drink faster? Or drink more pots at a time? Maybe an ability to smash healing pots on their head that have a 2 or 3 second cooldown separate from pots, so they can drink one, then smash one?

solo ee should only be possible for epic trs a good number of lives into their build with tweaked out gear and good skills. That being said, heal pots for end game need to be added somewhere.

[Seikojin]

solo ee should only be possible for epic trs a good number of lives into their build with tweaked out gear and good skills. That being said, heal pots for end game need to be added somewhere.

Solo ee possible? Right now, yes. Should it be? No. I think no quest should be at level, elite completeable (heroic or epic) with the best gear, best build, and even best skills. I think a group of 4 or more should be able to complete it with 95% success rate with the same setup (best gear, builds, and skills). I also think they should be rewarded for that level of play. If people want to solo and a challenge, play hard.

[patang01]

How about Elixir of Greater Healing? ML15, works on EVERYTHING (if you're forged, counts as repair, if undead, counts a neg energy, for everyone else, counts as positive energy), Heals 50 HP plus 10-20 HP every 2 seconds for 10 seconds. Get it for Swaying Mushroom Spore Pods (2 per pot) or Vol Prayer Charms (3 per pot). Both are stupidly easy to farm in huge quantities which is why I have hundreds of Elixir of Greater Healing sitting around.

So, with the new barb Hamp + Hamp gear, how high can they get? With just 100% hamp, that's 100hp + 20-40 every 2 seconds for 10 seconds for a total of 200-300 HP back without any of the SF pot drawbacks or favor grinding. And unlike scrolls or cocoon, you don't have to be out of Rage to use it, so you still have the new barb rage-heals, and get to keep your Rage-driven DPS stuff. All without touching the store.

(Best source of spore pods, btw, is Assault on Summerfield. Vol Prayer Charms is Necro 1 quests. Particularly the one with the nutty amounts of zombies and the 'Vessel of Faith' zombies. Drops like candy there, and can even get you some Abbot's Rings, for Restoration Pots and Deathward Pots that don't require farming comms in Eveningstar.)

There's a significant drawback tho, long cooldown, longer than scrolls and cocoon. I'm not saying you're wrong about the potion, but it's one source of slow healing, against the potential of hundreds of damage that can easily outstrip healing and do essential damage before cooldown is done. There need to be a better potion out there for plat, that can be combined with elixir for the 'in between cooldown' healing. Something that can add a significant one time boost (but not as good as a heal of course) that gives you a fair chance to stay up. This is especially important for barbs that can't really effectively scroll or cocoon.