Order of Syncletica: Poison-Master In Depth

[TeacherSyn]

In as far as I can do so with my limited tools, as I tend to build more organically and less by number-crunching resources...

>>>By request, here's a more detailed build design of my Ninja Spy poison-master.

[Saekee]

Interesting! For building stacks of ninja poison, consider that this occurs on a critical hit. This is most relevant for bosses, since other mobs die pretty quickly. For that reason, I suggest the expanded crit ranged weapons for those specific situations. Since you are focused on short swords, I would suggest the following for heroics:
1) Razorend (I think I sold you on that one before!)
2) Crystal Cove's Cutthroat Smallblade, level 12 up
3) Treason
4) As you mention, the Tiefling Assassin's Blade

Easiest to build in the group is #2, Razorend requires the difficult-to-acquire Tome pages, and treason is a raid item. 2+3 have poor base damage since they were not updated with the boosted weapon specs. When Razorend is wielded together with the Rakshasa-hide style tunic, it looks right.
These will give a 15-20 threat range with IC: Piercing over 17-20, meaning that the poison will stack 20% faster (and critical hits will occur 20% more often)! This is especially important if you have other poison wielders in your party.
That said, I think the heroic envenomed blades are the best against trash, since the paralyzing effect still functions.


With the ninja spy capstone, any short sword shifts to 15-20; the named ones with the expanded threat then become 13-20--still 20% better for stacking and critical hits. The epic mobs resist paralyzing more commonly although the epic envenomed blades have enervation, a powerful level draining effect that was not nerfed with the 'life stealing' wave of changes. I don't have an epic one but would love to have one.

Epic expanded short swords are:
1) Rebellion (the best), the epic version of treason
2) Epic Cutthroat's Smallblade
3) Drow Short Sword of the Weapon Master

It's too bad that Epic Sting is not really good at stinging, although its base damage is decent enough.

What do you think? The Drow Short sword sometimes appears on the auction house and the eSmallblade is easy to make. But you know me--I go IC: Slashing and use the hooks for 13-20/3

[TeacherSyn]

Interesting! For building stacks of ninja poison, consider that this occurs on a critical hit. This is most relevant for bosses, since other mobs die pretty quickly. For that reason, I suggest the expanded crit ranged weapons for those specific situations. Since you are focused on short swords, I would suggest the following for heroics:
1) Razorend (I think I sold you on that one before!)
2) Crystal Cove's Cutthroat Smallblade, level 12 up
3) Treason
4) As you mention, the Tiefling Assassin's Blade

Easiest to build in the group is #2, Razorend requires the difficult-to-acquire Tome pages, and treason is a raid item. 2+3 have poor base damage since they were not updated with the boosted weapon specs. When Razorend is wielded together with the Rakshasa-hide style tunic, it looks right.
These will give a 15-20 threat range with IC: Piercing over 17-20, meaning that the poison will stack 20% faster (and critical hits will occur 20% more often)! This is especially important if you have other poison wielders in your party.
That said, I think the heroic envenomed blades are the best against trash, since the paralyzing effect still functions.


With the ninja spy capstone, any short sword shifts to 15-20; the named ones with the expanded threat then become 13-20--still 20% better for stacking and critical hits. The epic mobs resist paralyzing more commonly although the epic envenomed blades have enervation, a powerful level draining effect that was not nerfed with the 'life stealing' wave of changes. I don't have an epic one but would love to have one.

Epic expanded short swords are:
1) Rebellion (the best), the epic version of treason
2) Epic Cutthroat's Smallblade
3) Drow Short Sword of the Weapon Master

It's too bad that Epic Sting is not really good at stinging, although its base damage is decent enough.

What do you think? The Drow Short sword sometimes appears on the auction house and the eSmallblade is easy to make. But you know me--I go IC: Slashing and use the hooks for 13-20/3

Important clarification: Ninja Poison is delivered on command on a Touch of Despair strike with Poisoned Soul enhancement active. If critical hits go off, Sting of the Ninja delivers a stack as well, which is random with the roll. Sting of the Ninja just increases the rate of stacks per second and that's not a bad thing at all.

You can switch from Ninjutsu toggles Poisoned Soul to Poison Exploit while in combat to rip out accumulated stacks once max stacks (and thus max vulnerability) is reached. That is, the enemy is bleeding high purple numbers (120s or more)--and then gets lords-know how much in a poison overdose rip (800? 1000? 1200 pts?).

Ryncletica is designed to increase that bleed number with Venomed Blades through its magnification by melee power and any other Poison damage that's magnified by the NP vulnerability effect.

Your points on the swords are spot-on. I'm holding to the Tiefling blades because they are essentially perfect right now against poison-vulnerable enemies. Level 15 Duergar go down like level 2 kobolds. I'm looking for those other blades but it's the additional Poison damage and Wounding (to decrease Fortitude to make finishers stick and worsen the damage) that makes the build sing.

I've got some Smallblades in wait, and picked up a Drow Shortsword on the AH long ago, thinking ahead. By the time I'm using that Drow sword, the melee power from Epic Destinies will show the build's mettle in increasing damage. I'm betting that the Envenomed Blades will still be viable into early Epic, but getting their Epic EB versions (flight of fancy, I know) would be the best arrangement, barring any other blade with high crit range, Wounding and Poison damage.

Too bad those are suffixes. Weren't there weapons with the "Greater Poison" suffix? Are those gone from the loot table? If not, a "Wounding of Greater Poison" would do, too.

[Saekee]

Important clarification: Ninja Poison is delivered on command on a Touch of Despair strike with Poisoned Soul enhancement active. If critical hits go off, Sting of the Ninja delivers a stack as well, which is random with the roll. Sting of the Ninja just increases the rate of stacks per second and that's not a bad thing at all.

You can switch from Ninjutsu toggles Poisoned Soul to Poison Exploit while in combat to rip out accumulated stacks once max stacks (and thus max vulnerability) is reached. That is, the enemy is bleeding high purple numbers (120s or more)--and then gets lords-know how much in a poison overdose rip (800? 1000? 1200 pts?).

Ryncletica is designed to increase that bleed number with Venomed Blades through its magnification by melee power and any other Poison damage that's magnified by the NP vulnerability effect.

Your points on the swords are spot-on. I'm holding to the Tiefling blades because they are essentially perfect right now against poison-vulnerable enemies. Level 15 Duergar go down like level 2 kobolds. I'm looking for those other blades but it's the additional Poison damage and Wounding (to decrease Fortitude to make finishers stick and worsen the damage) that makes the build sing.

I've got some Smallblades in wait, and picked up a Drow Shortsword on the AH long ago, thinking ahead. By the time I'm using that Drow sword, the melee power from Epic Destinies will show the build's mettle in increasing damage. I'm betting that the Envenomed Blades will still be viable into early Epic, but getting their Epic EB versions (flight of fancy, I know) would be the best arrangement, barring any other blade with high crit range, Wounding and Poison damage.

Too bad those are suffixes. Weren't there weapons with the "Greater Poison" suffix? Are those gone from the loot table? If not, a "Wounding of Greater Poison" would do, too.

Great points. When I had Saekee wielding the Hooks, I got really bored at the lack of variety...At least with a weapon like Rebellion you also get Deception proccing for sneak damage and damage mitigation and I have a Celestia, awesome for CC. I forget about the finishers--I have been using all light monk paths for survivability, really handy when beating down bosses or setting up 'Aligning the Heavens' to aid spell casters.
I was using the Tiefling Blade even into the mid-levels but I was shocked at how much it was breaking...shame that it is so difficult to get soul gems or an addy ritual would solve the problem. I was also distressed to realize that the Nightforge Avenger's Blade (level 8), made with the ore in Relic of a Sovereign Past, has the same base damage and crit profile (assuming IC: Slashing) as Razorend. Shocking. Will need to rethink this whole armed monk around them. I had avoided going Whirling Steel Strike and am getting frustrated at the lack of interesting monk-useable slashing weapons on my current build with monk splash (my stealth build of 6 monk/7 wiz/7 rogue).
Imagine that weapons like the NIghtforged blades or the epic commendation sword Oathblade have the same crit profile as a ninja master's short swords. This is how I was justifying an armed, splashed monk, but ****, Whirling Steel Strike is crazy expensive with feats.

[Saekee]

Here is the Nightforged Avenger Blade link. Like many of the stuff there, it has an expanded crit profile. Pic below from wiki.

[TeacherSyn]

The key to better Deception than from any weapon is the Unbalancing Strike.

Unbalancing Strike: Water Ki Melee Attack: You have learned several joint strikes. You can attack these weak points of your opponent, throwing them off balance for a short period of time. This reduces their armor class by 2, applies a -10 penalty to their Balance skill, and renders them vulnerable to sneak attacks. A successful Reflex save negates this effect (DC 10 + Half Monk Level + Wisdom modifier + Trip modifiers). The target receives periodic saves to attempt to break free of this effect.

It's a ki strike with a nearly guaranteed Bluff proc on hit based on your WIS modifier, as opposed to a mere 5% chance with Deception. The action also simultaneously adds ki, damages the enemy and works to charge the Freezing the Lifeblood attack. I can use a loot-gen masterwork weapon and do this.

While weapon damage is fine, dark finishers with Unbalancing Strike stop or slow enemy damage altogether. Apply some poison DOTs and they're dying while I do the same to another target.

EDIT: Remember that Kiri was originally going with WSS but dropped it because of the feat cost. Shortswords did the job.

EDIT 2: And nearly continuous Deception with the ki strike means more Sneak Attack damage.

[peng]

I was using the Tiefling Blade even into the mid-levels but I was shocked at how much it was breaking...shame that it is so difficult to get soul gems or an addy ritual would solve the problem.

They're actually pretty easy to farm. If you don't have an arcane caster ready to go, you can roll up an iconic 14 wiz/1 x, and farm enough xp to get your 15th wizard level and the trap the soul spell. http://ddowiki.com/page/Soul_Gem:_Essence_of_Earth lists places to farm. My favorite is normal lord of eyes, but you need to be flagged or have an opener so you can redbox it.

[Saekee]

They're actually pretty easy to farm. If you don't have an arcane caster ready to go, you can roll up an iconic 14 wiz/1 x, and farm enough xp to get your 15th wizard level and the trap the soul spell. http://ddowiki.com/page/Soul_Gem:_Essence_of_Earth lists places to farm. My favorite is normal lord of eyes, but you need to be flagged or have an opener so you can redbox it.

Hi peng, thanks for the suggestion! I don't have iconics though but maybe there are some other ways. I don't plan to waste GS ingredients on this to make a Vacuum weapon. Maybe in some future wizard life. . .

The key to better Deception than from any weapon is the Unbalancing Strike.

Unbalancing Strike: Water Ki Melee Attack: You have learned several joint strikes. You can attack these weak points of your opponent, throwing them off balance for a short period of time. This reduces their armor class by 2, applies a -10 penalty to their Balance skill, and renders them vulnerable to sneak attacks. A successful Reflex save negates this effect (DC 10 + Half Monk Level + Wisdom modifier + Trip modifiers). The target receives periodic saves to attempt to break free of this effect.

It's a ki strike with a nearly guaranteed Bluff proc on hit based on your WIS modifier, as opposed to a mere 5% chance with Deception. The action also simultaneously adds ki, damages the enemy and works to charge the Freezing the Lifeblood attack. I can use a loot-gen masterwork weapon and do this.

While weapon damage is fine, dark finishers with Unbalancing Strike stop or slow enemy damage altogether. Apply some poison DOTs and they're dying while I do the same to another target.

EDIT: Remember that Kiri was originally going with WSS but dropped it because of the feat cost. Shortswords did the job.

EDIT 2: And nearly continuous Deception with the ki strike means more Sneak Attack damage.

Good points. But unbalancing strike is only effective on pure builds (or mostly pure builds) since the DC is based on half monk levels. I was using it as the first attack with my Hook wielder and it rocks! But with a monk splash, it might not be so effective, unless wisdom is super high.

[peng]

Hi peng, thanks for the suggestion! I don't have iconics though but maybe there are some other ways. I don't plan to waste GS ingredients on this to make a Vacuum weapon. Maybe in some future wizard life. . .

You can always ask someone to farm it for you. Maybe you farm the ores, have a friend farm the soul gems and split em. If you were on orien...

[TeacherSyn]

They're actually pretty easy to farm. If you don't have an arcane caster ready to go, you can roll up an iconic 14 wiz/1 x, and farm enough xp to get your 15th wizard level and the trap the soul spell. http://ddowiki.com/page/Soul_Gem:_Essence_of_Earth lists places to farm. My favorite is normal lord of eyes, but you need to be flagged or have an opener so you can redbox it.

Great suggestion, Peng. I'm usually quite lazy and simply switch weapons to adamantine ones when I run into earth elementals or gargoyles. I can't poison them, anyway, so hacking with the wrong weapon is a bad thing.

[TeacherSyn]

. . .Good points. But unbalancing strike is only effective on pure builds (or mostly pure builds) since the DC is based on half monk levels. I was using it as the first attack with my Hook wielder and it rocks! But with a monk splash, it might not be so effective, unless wisdom is super high.

Yep. The Master Poisoner's high DCs are key to it's survival. Kiri is similarly built but without Venomed Blades she may not gain the better poison damage I expect, especially with Primal Avatar things I've read up about. Zowie!

[garzan123]

How would you make this as wf first life staff user

[Hoglum]

Wow, what kind of sick twisted person goes around poisoning people?