Build reality check request - Dwarven 19 cleric / 1 fighter / n epic

[Kralgnax]

Greetings, fellow clerics!
I'm looking to get a reasonably capable warpriest without gimping my healing capabilities - a bit of offensive spellcasting would be nice if it could fit in, but I don't really see how. Like many of the other posters, I'm coming back after a hiatus.

FWIW, leveling will likely mostly be solo, though I certainly want the build to be suited to being a healer for group and raid combat. Build is below, I have a few uncertainties on my mind:

1) I'm thinking 16/8/16/10/16/10 is a reasonable stat allocation, but if I'm being silly or missing some obviously better choice, commentary is welcome. He ate a plus two supreme tome at level 7.
2) Toughness is my default level 18 feat because more HP is always good, but I'm wondering if something else might serve better - ideas?
3) Heal gets more skill points than spellcraft - seems right, am I missing something ?
4) I've gone heavy on radiant servant and warpriest enhancements because healing aura is wonderful and I like the deep warpriest stuff, am I mssing any obvious choices? I have Harper Agent, too, but it looked fairly meh to me.
5) Current scheme is for Divine crusader & exalted angel epic destinies

Thanks in advance!

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Inziladun Warpriest
Level 21 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
(1 Fighter \ 19 Cleric \ 1 Epic) 
Hit Points: 339
Spell Points: 1408 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 8
Will: 21


                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 21)
Strength             16                    20
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence         10                    12
Wisdom               16                    26
Charisma             10                    12


Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 21)
Balance              -1                     5
Bluff                 0                     2
Concentration         7                    27
Diplomacy             0                     2
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                0                     2
Heal                  5                    27
Hide                 -1                     1
Intimidate            0                     2
Jump                  3                     8
Listen                3                     9
Move Silently        -1                     1
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     2
Search                0                     4
Spellcraft            2                    19
Spot                  3                     9
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble               n/a                    n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host




Level 2 (Cleric)




Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell




Level 4 (Cleric)




Level 5 (Cleric)




Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell




Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons




Level 8 (Cleric)




Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell




Level 10 (Cleric)




Level 11 (Cleric)




Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons




Level 13 (Cleric)




Level 14 (Cleric)




Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack




Level 16 (Cleric)




Level 17 (Cleric)




Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness




Level 19 (Cleric)




Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Axe Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Axes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Divine Emissary of Light (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spellpower: Universal (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spell Points (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spell Points (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spell Points (Rank 3)




Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Great Wisdom
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Healing Domain (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Pacifism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Burst (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Empower Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Divine Cleansing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Bliss (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Efficient Empower Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Efficient Empower Healing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Efficient Empower Healing (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Unyielding Sovereignty (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Sanctuary (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - War Domain: Blur (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - War Domain: Haste (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Sacred Touch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Sacred Touch (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Weakness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Burden of Sin (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Burden of Sin (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Burden of Sin (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Energy Absorption (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Energy Absorption (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Energy Absorption (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Light Guard (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Light Guard (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Light Guard (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - To the Fore! (Rank 1)

[Thalone]

Welcome back.

I am not a fan of the Heal skill, and here is some math why. At level 20, you will have max 23 ranks (23% base bonus). However, this is small effect after taking into account your other sources of spell power. Assuming at level 20, very conservatively, you have 10 Heal from Wisdom bonus and buffs, 90+12 = 112 from a Devotion weapon, and 20 Spell Power from your RS enhancements; and assuming the easy 30% Heal Amp from gear (PDK Gloves), the end multiplier of received healing with zero trained ranks is (132+100)/100 * 1.3 = 3.016. With 23 trained ranks, it is (132+23+100)/100 * 1.3 = 3.315. A difference of roughly 30%. So let's look at your base 150 Heal, your most powerful healing spell; 30% of 150 is 45. This is about one tick of your aura or two CSW pots. It's not going to make or break you, so I don't feel the skill investment is worth it. Consider instead one point in Tumble (so you can shieldblock while moving out of trouble), UMD (scrolls of Fire Shield, Teleport, GH, etc), Balance, Spellcraft.

On feat selections, Toughness and Weapon Focus have fallen out of favour due to recent updates (free 5 HPs every five class levels/Toughness no long necessary to qualify for enhancements, diminishing returns on to-hit curve). Also, what spells will you be extending? The only ones I can think of for a melee divine are Divine Favour (Extend has the same cost as recasting) and Divine Power (only 15 SP more expensive). Seems expensive for a single spell. The majority of content can be run between shrines without Extended full-length buffs. Consider instead Cleave feats if going the melee route, so you can attack multiple enemies at once, or Empower for nuking.

DC casting at higher difficulties are, as you implied, largely all or nothing. There's really no point putting too many build points into Wisdom if you're not going to try. You need WIS = 19 (including gear and buffs) to cast all your spells (some buffer is useful in case you get debuffed), so too much beyond this is a waste if you're not going to DC-cast. However, even if you dump your DCs, many divine spells can still work and do half damage. You can kite nonevasive melee enemies through Blade Barrier for half damage; half of a lot is still a lot. Divine Punishment is your go-to DoT and has no save. Your level 4 smiting spells have a Fort save, so will generally do half damage. The SLAs from Divine Disciple receive free metamagics; this can be good damage even if your DCs are in the basement. Energy Drain has no save and cuts out the target's HP ceiling; this can be very high DPS for enemies with a lot of HPs.

[unbongwah]

As Thalone said, you can be a STR-based Warpriest / healer or you can be a WIS-based Divine Disciple who occasionally swings a greataxe, but it's not a good idea to spread yourself too thin.

First thing I would do is ditch Extend, WF:Slash, Toughness, and Great WIS. These are all weak feats.

If you want to be melee-focused, then you ideally have Power Atk, IC:Slash, both Cleaves, and the THF chain. You may wish to consider something more heavily-MCed, like cleric 17 / ftr 3; this gets you an extra feat and access to defensive stance (+25 PRR, +3 saves, +20% HPs for 13 APs), while keeping lvl 9 spells. STR, CON, and CHA are your primary stats; CHA mostly for more TUs and higher STR bonus from Div Might. You want enough INT to max your must-have skills; WIS you only need the bare minimum for spell casting (e.g., base 11 + 2 tome + 7 item = WIS 20).

If you go WIS-based caster, you'll want Heighten and at least one Spell Focus; you'll also shift more APs into DiDi. If you still want to melee occasionally, Power Atk and IC:Slash are all you really need.

[Wh070aa]

Needs more WIS. Its ok tho, but you really need every DC you can squeeze out (but 1 DC doesn't break build, as long as you get other stuff).

The heal skill, combined with radiant servant gives you a lot of regeneration from Divine Healing. Each point in heal skill gives you extra 2 seconds of 4d4 healing, which is great at lover levels, and Ok at higher (Put it on zerger, and keep his HP topped off). Although it scales poorly (its just 4d4, no spellpower/feats or nothing, just heal amp), and a must have, in case you don't have the RS tier 5 aura.

Divine disciple SLA's are great (that free blindness from holy smite, for 23 point investment).

Pro tip for lower levels - You can no UMD scroll blurr and haste, without war priest (and holy smite trumps blurr anyway). Look into sneak attack too.

Also the war priest party buffs suck. I have found most war priests really useless in party at lover levels. Should be good for soloing or something.

Also why power attack so late? Why you no cleave? What weapon style are you using? Sword and board? Overwhelming Critical, or spell focus(get a wis item that takes you to round number) as epic feat? Almost anything is better than +1 wis. Weapon focus should be replaced with something else too, unless its prerequisite for something useful.

Anyhow, use more scrolls, and more sneak attack, if you can.Waiting 18 levels for haste is not fun, and by the time you have them you probably have moment speed, and attack speed items(not to mention clickies), so its no longer really needed.

Also you are wasting the +1 fighter, as you don't have any feats you really need, and you are not using it for anything else (tower shield proficiency, maybe? Use master touch instead? needs 20 umd).

I am no expert in melee tho.

[cru121]

OP probably wants extend for Haste, which he's picking up from lvl 18 warpriest core.

[DarthCaedus]

Good luck with your build!

I don't think the 19th level of cleric gets you much if you are planning to take 1 level of fighter. 18 cleric / 2 fighter might be good.

Energy drain is a really nice spell against orange names - hit them with an energy drain or 2 and possibly enervation (if you can squeeze in AP to get it from divine disciple tree) before attacking to bring their hp way down.

Summon Monster IX and Implosion definitely aren't needed for your build so you aren't losing much by taking 1 more level of fighter for another feat.

If you go dwarf you can go con-based instead of str for more hp. Generally maxing out str is best on a melee otherwise. If you aren't going to max out wisdom or try for DC you just need enough wisdom to cast 9th level spells. Overwhelming critical would be a better choice @ 21 vs. great wisdom if you don't plan to max out wisdom. DC is something you need to go all-in for or dump in this game.

I generally don't take toughness unless I was also going to take epic toughness @ 21 or 24 which requires at least a 21 con with tomes and level ups.

[SirValentine]

Like others have said, not focused enough. Pick either melee or offensive casting as primary, and then ignore the other one in terms of your stats/feats/enhancements.

If you go melee, 16 Wisdom is too much. Drop to 14 at most, or maybe even lower, to free up stat points for elsewhere.

I agree some of the specific feat comments you already received, too. Drop Toughness regardless, and drop Great Wisdom if going the melee route.

[axel15810]

Some other things to consider -

- I'd dump concentration. You have quicken so you won't need it for spells. And in epics you will rarely use heal scrolls as they are too slow, and you won't make your concentration checks on any epic elite or most epic hard quests anyway.

-Way too much WIS. If taking 17 cleric levels I'd put no more than 10 as a starting stat. I'd personally dump it completely and leave it at 8, but I have a +4 WIS tome on my main. You only need 19 WIS to cast level 9 spells. That's easily attainable with WIS items and tomes. Anymore WIS than that is not very helpful for a melee cleric...it'll give you a few more SP and a bit more will saves but that's it.

-Consider splashing pally for saves and access to the defender and KotC trees. Pally trees are OP at the moment...so many goodies there

- Feel free to splash lower than 17 cleric. There's so much benefit to splashing mutliple pally levels. Also Mass heal as a spell is dead, it's not needed any more to heal in parties or raids. For the most part none of the new raids are group healed. They're mostly all single target. And older raids like Chrono, Shroud, VoN6 where mass heal is useful are so easy even on epic elite that mass heal isn't necissary anyway.


Check out my youtube channel (see my signature), I play mostly melee clerics and have a "cleric healing guide" video you'll definitely find useful if you are new to clerics.

Good luck with your build and have fun.

[Wh070aa]

Also consider splashing ranger. Positive spell power (a ton of it, form enchantments), and extra feats, and damage (favored enemy and stuff). Also sprint boost (1 level is enough to get it for some reason). The sneak attack die, + positive spell power really synergies with divine disciple. 1 level of ranger gives you 1 sneak attack, and + 22 spell power, and favored enemy (+2 to damage). (Also Bow Strength, if you are into that).
3 levels of ranger gives you extra 10 positive, and extra sneak attack die. (and Thrill of the Hunt, extra +3 damage, if you hit something with less than 20% hp. 16 enchantment points to get it tho, not really worth). (+ Rapid Shot and Two Weapon Fighting from level 2 ,and Diehard from level 3).

Anyhow good synergies.With blindness from smite you get the sneak all the time, and you get extra healing. All that for 1 level and 1 point. You get like 12 more spell power, if you put in like 3 more points. Do 1 ranger/1rouge, for more trapping, and sneak attack, although you probably need more Int for that.

At least that's what I do. (like 17 cleric,1ranger,2 rogue). Only problem is the extreme delay of spell progression while leveling, and hunger in may stats and skills, and enchantments. 19 cleric, 1 ranger is also pretty good, and you don't have to worry about keeping up with evasion and traps.

[Kralgnax]

Well, thanks a bunch for helpful & timely comments, folks!

I'm not surprised that offensive casting is still pretty much go big or stay on the porch, it seems like it's been that way forever

I have to confess I've had extend forever, and kept it in largely because of the 40 minute buffs, but it is unnecessary (just convenient), so my feats will be:
Empow. healing, quicken & maximize, power attack, impr. crit: slash, cleave, great cleave, two hander, impr. two handers, plus overwhelming critical and ruin.

Stats more weighted to STR, I don't see a compelling reason for more CHA, CON or INT, and Dex just seems like a lost cause.

Enhancement trees - well, imo the juicy stuff is deep in radiant servant and warpriest, with Divine aura as the principal tier 5 (to me), in any case enhancements are easily changed later.

Although I appreciate the comments about splash alternative, I think it'll still be one level in fighter for this reincarnation.

I guess I'll be dropping all the shield related stuff, except for some more defensive situations in group or raid healing, where I won't be so concerned about melee damage output.

Cheers, and good gaming to you!