What happened to all the old builds?

[vizeroh]

Hello, I'm a returning player, long time past since I have played again. U15? I think it was my last time playing. Well alot has changed for me, and slightly confusing as well. On top of relearning the game, now its the Enhancements I have to relearn how to do. Which leads me to old builds I use to look at for sortof a guide into making sure I was on the right track which seem to be gone.

Let me list my characters, perhaps people can suggest a guide to look at that closely seems like it'd patch well with what it use to be?

25 HORC Pure Monk STR/WIS based

23 WF Fighter/Rog Evasion Tank (Hard Rock Candy Mountain)

25 WF Wizard Pale Master Necro

25 WF Pure Arty

18 WF Rog/Monk (Big Fkin Stick) QStaff

Plus many others. I know it'll just take some time before I get use to the new system, and relearn what is good, but I am always the one who likes to do research, this way I don't make many mistakes having to redo things.

Here's a picture of what I did to my tank when I logged in.. (My gear has never been maxed however I always thought I did good for myself in most cases for never wanting to grind.)

[Makkuroi]

A str/wis horc monk cant go wrong I guess, I dont play full monk but shintao is the way to go for unarmed pure monk. Ninja spy for the shadow fade and extra sneak/reflex/dodge.

WF fighter tank would be pretty outdated, bladeforged is just plain better than warforged on a melee because of the recon SLA. Even fleshy with healamp is better on a fighter since they can twist cocoon or use divine crusader self-heals in epics.

20 wiz is ok, needs a lot of new gear id guess. You can mix pale master and archmage now, so even as PM you can get web or MM SLA (MM for shiradi)

arti is said to be low damage in epics but the new thunderforged heavy repeaters are nice on arti because of their high dice multiplier and procs. cant say much here. edit: have a look at harper tree maybe, interesting for int based chars.

Staff builds got a lot better during enhancement pass, acrobat is a great tree. You need a good staff like stout oak (very cheap) or sireth (raiders box if you have).

edit: resetting enhancements only costs plat, so you cant really make irreversible mistakes.

[Emizand]

Old builds dont die, they just fall down!

Welcome back

[zwiebelring]

Hello, I'm a returning player, long time past since I have played again. U15? I think it was my last time playing. Well alot has changed for me, and slightly confusing as well. On top of relearning the game, now its the Enhancements I have to relearn how to do. Which leads me to old builds I use to look at for sortof a guide into making sure I was on the right track which seem to be gone.

Let me list my characters, perhaps people can suggest a guide to look at that closely seems like it'd patch well with what it use to be?

25 HORC Pure Monk STR/WIS based

23 WF Fighter/Rog Evasion Tank (Hard Rock Candy Mountain)

25 WF Wizard Pale Master Necro

25 WF Pure Arty

18 WF Rog/Monk (Big Fkin Stick) QStaff

Plus many others. I know it'll just take some time before I get use to the new system, and relearn what is good, but I am always the one who likes to do research, this way I don't make many mistakes having to redo things.

Here's a picture of what I did to my tank when I logged in.. (My gear has never been maxed however I always thought I did good for myself in most cases for never wanting to grind.)

They aren't dead, but there are new max *thisandthatandwhatnot* options, so those new things are keeping players of those old builds curious and interested. Some things may have become obsolete. But in the end, the base still works, just the outline changed. And, of course, the gear.

[Toro12]

Most of the old builds won't be "optimal" now but most can be made very effective. So long as the build wasn't built on a gimmick. The good old " classic " builds can still be made to work and well but the flavor of the month builds are going to struggle.

The only builds I see you might have issues adapting are your evasion tank as looking at the PRR you are probably using a shield so your evasion will be locked out.
The other was Rockcandy that was a flavor of the month build . I don't rememebr the specifics to say if it wil be workable.

A big monk is a big monk , as much as everyone says " zOMG monks are so OP "but pure monks aren't. But you should be viable

[unbongwah]

While none of your builds would be considered max DPS FotM builds, only Big Rock Candy is behind the curve IMO; and even it benefits from Vanguard tree. All of your old toons should have LR +0 & +20 hearts in their inventories which will let you redo them.

[DakFrost]

Builds are simple now. Just roll a Paladin and you win!

[unbongwah]

Now that I have time to take a closer look, a few thoughts on each char.

25 HORC Pure Monk STR/WIS based

Pure monks fell out of favor with U19 when monk / kensei became all the rage. But it's still a solid class, IMHO, with good DPS and good survivability. Now that you're allowed to use more than one PrE per class, I prefer unarmed light monks with Meditation of War + capstone, with enough invested in Ninja for at least Shadow Veil and ideally No Mercy. But dark monks are still viable too.

25 WF Wizard Pale Master Necro

25 WF Pure Arty

These builds should be okay, with the wizard being the stronger of the two. [The main downside to pure arties is the PrEs are a bit lacking in DPS, IMHO.] A couple of threads to look at:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...e-Master-Guide
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...used-artificer

18 WF Rog/Monk (Big Fkin Stick) QStaff

Staff builds are still a lot of fun, IMHO; and rog / monk is still a pretty solid foundation, although there are alternatives. The main drawback is the same one all non-arcane WF have, namely the heal amp penalty.

23 WF Fighter/Rog Evasion Tank (Hard Rock Candy Mountain)

This build probably got hit the hardest by all the changes in recent years. To whit:

• It's very hard to hit endgame-worthy Reflex saves without either a pally splash, a heavy investment in DEX, and/or burning a couple of Twists on Reflex saves; without them, though, Evasion is useless.
• Evasion now only works with bucklers or small shields; if you used hvy or tower shields, you'll either have to replace them or accept not having Evasion.
• Mithril Body's MDB doesn't scale with levels the way light chain armors do; this puts you at an AC & Dodge disadvantage compared to fleshie light armor builds.
• Ironically, a pure or mostly-pure pally build does better DPS than a mostly-pure ftr, thanks largely to the improvements to the Holy Sword spell (among other changes).
• The Vanguard capstone (+5% doublestrike) is pretty nice for a S&B build, so losing it is unfortunate.
• The changes to PRR and the addition of MRR means that "classic S&B" (hvy armor+hvy or tower shield) builds have much more protection than they did before.

[vizeroh]

Now that I have time to take a closer look, a few thoughts on each char.

Pure monks fell out of favor with U19 when monk / kensei became all the rage. But it's still a solid class, IMHO, with good DPS and good survivability. Now that you're allowed to use more than one PrE per class, I prefer unarmed light monks with Meditation of War + capstone, with enough invested in Ninja for at least Shadow Veil and ideally No Mercy. But dark monks are still viable too.

These builds should be okay, with the wizard being the stronger of the two. [The main downside to pure arties is the PrEs are a bit lacking in DPS, IMHO.] A couple of threads to look at:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...e-Master-Guide
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...used-artificer

Staff builds are still a lot of fun, IMHO; and rog / monk is still a pretty solid foundation, although there are alternatives. The main drawback is the same one all non-arcane WF have, namely the heal amp penalty.

This build probably got hit the hardest by all the changes in recent years. To whit:

• It's very hard to hit endgame-worthy Reflex saves without either a pally splash, a heavy investment in DEX, and/or burning a couple of Twists on Reflex saves; without them, though, Evasion is useless.
• Evasion now only works with bucklers or small shields; if you used hvy or tower shields, you'll either have to replace them or accept not having Evasion.
• Mithril Body's MDB doesn't scale with levels the way light chain armors do; this puts you at an AC & Dodge disadvantage compared to fleshie light armor builds.
• Ironically, a pure or mostly-pure pally build does better DPS than a mostly-pure ftr, thanks largely to the improvements to the Holy Sword spell (among other changes).
• The Vanguard capstone (+5% doublestrike) is pretty nice for a S&B build, so losing it is unfortunate.
• The changes to PRR and the addition of MRR means that "classic S&B" (hvy armor+hvy or tower shield) builds have much more protection than they did before.

So, because of the changes tower/heavy shields no longer allow evasion to work even if you are mithril body? So, the picture I shown is really outdated stats that should be able to get with a better build now?

Thanks for the information. Is there a post or guide somewhere that shows the better if not best Enhancements for certain build styles? IE, Arty Ranged = pick up Arty Ranged buffs and evo buffs.

[unbongwah]

So, because of the changes tower/heavy shields no longer allow evasion to work even if you are mithril body?

Correct. From the U23 release notes: "Evasion will no longer function for characters who have Heavy and Tower Shields equipped."

So, the picture I shown is really outdated stats that should be able to get with a better build now?

You must have some decent gear, as you have 143 PRR. But if you switched to Adamantine Body, you'd gain 30 + your BAB score to PRR, if I'm adding right; I think you gain the same amount to MRR, IIUC.

[vizeroh]

Correct. From the U23 release notes: "Evasion will no longer function for characters who have Heavy and Tower Shields equipped."

You must have some decent gear, as you have 143 PRR. But if you switched to Adamantine Body, you'd gain 30 + your BAB score to PRR, if I'm adding right; I think you gain the same amount to MRR, IIUC.

Any suggestions on a tank build in which I can look over? Or perhaps just swapping my 2 rouge levels for Pally levels? I loved my Evasion Tank so much.

[unbongwah]

Here's my first attempt at redeeming Big Rock Candy. Disclaimer: not convinced this is a good idea - BRC may be a lost cause at this point - but you have an LR +0 you can use to tweak your char and give it a shot. Worst-case scenario, you TR into something more effective for the current game.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 28 True Neutral Warforged Male
(18 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 543
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 10
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             16                    26
Dexterity            11                    13
Constitution         18                    21
Intelligence         11                    13
Wisdom                6                     6
Charisma             12                    14

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 23

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               4                    15
Bluff                 1                    10
Concentration         4                    13
Diplomacy             1                    10
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                5                    14
Heal                 -2                     6
Hide                  0                     7
Intimidate            5                    33
Jump                  7                    18
Listen               -2                     6
Move Silently         0                     7
Open Lock             4                    13
Perform               n/a                  n/a
Repair                0                     9
Search                0                     9
Spellcraft            0                     9
Spot                  2                    10
Swim                  3                    12
Tumble                4                    11
Use Magic Device      5                    33

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Mithral Body
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+8)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - To the Fore! (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Combat (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vicious Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Combat II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vicious Shield II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Specialization I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Smash (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Smash (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Smash (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Brutality (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Brutality (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Brutality (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Stunning Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Stunning Shield (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Stunning Shield (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Action Boost: Melee Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Action Boost: Melee Power (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Action Boost: Melee Power (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Follow Up (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Follow Up (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Follow Up (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Fatal Bulwark (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vanguard Armor Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vanguard Armor Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vanguard Armor Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Charge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Charge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Charge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield to the Face (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Rush (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Rush (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Rush (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Armored Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Overbalance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Exotic Weapon Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target

S&B Vanguard with enough Stalwart D for defensive stance (+25 PRR, +3 saves +75% threat, +20% HPs, +6 STR) & Swift Defense (+10% run speed) and some APs into Kensei. Adapt stats as you see fit based on your build pts, tomes, etc. For this build, the feat pre-reqs are CON 21 for eToughness, STR 17 for ITHF/GTHF, DEX 13 for Dodge, INT 13 for Combat Expertise, and CHA 13 for FoP.

I'm presuming you're using hvy or tower shields at the moment, so the first thing you'll need is to switch to bucklers or small shields for Evasion. You just missed Crystal Cove, unfortunately, so the easiest option to farm up is one of the bucklers from e3BC; whichever provides the most useful set of bonuses based on your current gear. Later you can go for one of the new eNecro shields.

[Panzermeyer]

So, because of the changes tower/heavy shields no longer allow evasion to work even if you are mithril body? So, the picture I shown is really outdated stats that should be able to get with a better build now?

The game had changed a lot with regards to armor, saves, and such. It had driven the player base to largely being only pajama wearing evasion builds. The last update they changed to give options. You are either basically an evasion based pajama build with low PRR/MRR. Or you are heavy armor build with no evasion, but super high AC/PRR/MRR. Both types (depending on what you are trying to do) are very viable and successful types.

Your tank build actually does not look bad at all with 163 AC and 140+ PRR. You should be able to get much higher MRR. And evasion is not at all useful for you anymore. You'll want to respect the character dropping evasion (trapping skills are still a valid reason to have 2 rogue)

Thanks for the information. Is there a post or guide somewhere that shows the better if not best Enhancements for certain build styles? IE, Arty Ranged = pick up Arty Ranged buffs and evo buffs.

There are many posts for different types of builds, look through the forums. It depends on what you want.

Sadly Artis have really languished quite a bit at high end content. They still remain a fairly decent support character, but don't expect to lead the Zerg through the dungeon on your arty.

Some arty build links
Dubbell-O-Seven-casting-ranged-focused-artificer
Optimizing-a-pure-arti-for-EE
The-Juggernaut-Prime-of-the-Warforged

[vizeroh]

Do you have any suggestions of both types of tank builds you can point me towards? The class/race does not matter to me. I just want to still keep myself updated with both styles now as you say they both are viable.

The game had changed a lot with regards to armor, saves, and such. It had driven the player base to largely being only pajama wearing evasion builds. The last update they changed to give options. You are either basically an evasion based pajama build with low PRR/MRR. Or you are heavy armor build with no evasion, but super high AC/PRR/MRR. Both types (depending on what you are trying to do) are very viable and successful types.

Your tank build actually does not look bad at all with 163 AC and 140+ PRR. You should be able to get much higher MRR. And evasion is not at all useful for you anymore. You'll want to respect the character dropping evasion (trapping skills are still a valid reason to have 2 rogue)



There are many posts for different types of builds, look through the forums. It depends on what you want.

Sadly Artis have really languished quite a bit at high end content. They still remain a fairly decent support character, but don't expect to lead the Zerg through the dungeon on your arty.

Some arty build links
Dubbell-O-Seven-casting-ranged-focused-artificer
Optimizing-a-pure-arti-for-EE
The-Juggernaut-Prime-of-the-Warforged