Rogue and Monk?

[Phaeton_Seraph]

I'm interested in possibly trying a sneaky rogue/monk assassin build.

I'll be on a Shadar-Kai and I was curious if I could do this sort of build to get Monk PLs and, very hopefully, have fun.

Actually it doesn't even have to have any assassin, as I won't have access to the capstone, and APs may be scarce, and I guess I might want to use the Harper tree.

And I was looking at maybe Dual wielding short swords.


However, I've never really done any x-classing, so I'm here asking for some basic build advice. It's not a career build, so I don't want to spend ages twinking it, but I might like to get a few Monk PLs in, if it's fun enough.

So who can share a build or two with me?

[unbongwah]

First idea: rog 5 / rgr 6 / monk 9. TWF w/short swords (100% offhand w/Tempest + Deft Strikes), Manyshot w/bows. Feats (in no particular order): Zen Archery, GTWF, Precision and/or Power Atk, PBS, Imp Prec Shot, Dodge, Master and GM of Forms (Earth or Wind stance), IC:Pierce & Ranged, Overwhelming Crit. [Probably can't squeeze in all of those feats, unfortunately, since most can't be taken before lvl 12 or 15.] Enhancements: 36 APs into Tempest for Dance of Death, 7 APs into Shintao for Deft Strikes, everything else is up to you.

[Phaeton_Seraph]

First idea: rog 5 / rgr 6 / monk 9. TWF w/short swords (100% offhand w/Tempest + Deft Strikes), Manyshot w/bows. Feats (in no particular order): Zen Archery, GTWF, Precision and/or Power Atk, PBS, Imp Prec Shot, Dodge, Master and GM of Forms (Earth or Wind stance), IC:Pierce & Ranged, Overwhelming Crit. [Probably can't squeeze in all of those feats, unfortunately, since most can't be taken before lvl 12 or 15.] Enhancements: 36 APs into Tempest for Dance of Death, 7 APs into Shintao for Deft Strikes, everything else is up to you.

Wow, that's interesting. I've never played with the Ranger class. I'm going to have to look into it.


Off to the wiki!

[TPICKRELL]

I'm interested in possibly trying a sneaky rogue/monk assassin build.

I'll be on a Shadar-Kai and I was curious if I could do this sort of build to get Monk PLs and, very hopefully, have fun.

Actually it doesn't even have to have any assassin, as I won't have access to the capstone, and APs may be scarce, and I guess I might want to use the Harper tree.

And I was looking at maybe Dual wielding short swords.


However, I've never really done any x-classing, so I'm here asking for some basic build advice. It's not a career build, so I don't want to spend ages twinking it, but I might like to get a few Monk PLs in, if it's fun enough.

So who can share a build or two with me?

I've used 6 Monk / 6 Rogue / 6 XXX as the basis for about 20 past lives. It works very well. My favorite for general playing is fighter for the extra feats, but I've done it with Cleric, Sorc, FVS, Ranger and it works really well. My main is pretty far along so there are a lot of past lives in the Planner output, but a friend is using the same platform for past lives now, and is much less geared and only has a couple of past lives.

Here is the PDK Rogue variant that gave to my friend to get him started:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Grubby PDK ROGUE fight monk
Level 28 Lawful Good Purple Dragon Knight Male
(6 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 8 Rogue \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 426
Spell Points: 40 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 18
Will: 17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             16                    25
Dexterity            15                    21
Constitution         14                    21
Intelligence         14                    21
Wisdom               14                    26
Charisma              8                    14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 19
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               2                    15
Bluff                -1                    12
Concentration         4                    38
Diplomacy            -1                    12
Disable Device        n/a                  39
Haggle               -1                    12
Heal                  2                    18
Hide                  2                    15
Intimidate           -1                    12
Jump                  5                    27
Listen                2                    18
Move Silently         2                    15
Open Lock             n/a                  38
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                    16
Search                4                    39
Spellcraft            2                    15
Spot                  4                    41
Swim                  3                    17
Tumble                3                    16
Use Magic Device      1                    36

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Human Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+5)
Skill: Search (+3)


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Completionist
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+6)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+6)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Whirlwind Attack


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Watchful Eye


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Tactician

I take tier 5 in ninja spy. For unarmed, I avoid the poison side of the tree, but if you go with swords it becomes a solid option. I max out Sneak Attack, max out No Mercy, take shadow double and if I have the action points at the end take Crippling strike. 4 STR of stat damage a swing is still worthwhile on a lot if trash.

I've used the platform with PDK, Shadar Kai and Morninglord and all worked well. Morninglord was 8 Cleric / 6 rogue 6 monk for the Morninglord and Cleric past lives.

My personal favorite was PDK 6Fighter/6Monk/6Rogue then put the 2 extra levels wherever you want the past live. You have a lot of feats so you can either go for ranged feats if you like archery or go for the whirlwind line if you don't. I don't care for ranged play so I go for whirlwind which picks up a lot of Dodge in the pre-reqs. I've only used whirlwind unarmed so I'm not sure if the weapon based TWF animations work well with it.

The build is designed for Divine Crusader Destiny but worked well in Legendary also. Cleave/Great Cleave/Whirlwind/Strike Down is pretty strong in a lot of the current Epic content.

PDK is very nice because it allows you to get the Human Damage Boost which is on a separate timer from the fighter Haste Boost so you have an option for very good burst damage by tripping both boosts at the same time. You also get the extra human feat.

With some challenge gear, a set of Grave Wraps (easy to get from the Kings Forrest chain end reward) and a set of Disruption wraps from the AH, the villager set and some AH gear to fill in the holes, you are good to go. A set of 24 and 26 Thunderforged wraps help a lot, but are not necessary. If you dont have them, then look for level 26 Thunder and Lightening wraps on the AH. I've seen them for very reasonable plat prices on Khyber AH.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Stunning fist > destroy anything in half a second with sneak damage. Have bluff for rednames, and a deception/improved deception item. Forget the shrot swords.

[Saekee]

all good suggestions above.
Righg now I am making a max dex toon to test stealth mechanics. 6 monk/7 rogue/7 wiz with permatensors, shadow dodge toggle, wind stance, fast sneaking, blur/displacement/sleet, etc. I went human so I can have action boost damage (giving +3 dex as well) and haste boost together for burst DPS. Took whole cleave line and decent Int! I will do IC Slashing for Brush Hooks and, in Epics, an EMG in offhand.
So far it is great--level 10, peaks of 42 Dex

[Violith]

I made a wisdom based 12monk/8rogue, that basically played exactly as a ninja would (Mix between ninjaspy, shintao, and assassin). shadowfade (invisibility/incorp) flashbangs, Stunning fist on a wisdom build can get any mob up into EE's, and No Mercy with Unbalancing Strike allowed him to get sneak attack on basically any nonundead mob and kill it quickly. Also with 12 monk you can get vorpal strikes as an epic feat (tho you just want the past lives its not necessary) as wel as abundant step. forget the exact level order, was a shadarkai build as well, so rogue first, then took alot of monk, think I got 12 monk before 15 so I could use the feat slot to get the grandmaster stance then. Trapping was able to do elite pretty much the entire life up to 28 (skill pts were rather tight), 8 rogue also got you imrpoved uncanny (50% dodge clicky), and with monk levels/stances his standing dodge was around 32 so the clicky allowed him to avoid alot of damage.

course, there is probably a better survivable build (as umd/wholeness was rather hard to keep alive without being cautious) and builds that do more DPS, but it was a fun one.

with the harper tree, it'd probably be possible to make an intel based one. although the intel to damage doesnt work with handwraps.

[unbongwah]

Wow, that's interesting. I've never played with the Ranger class. I'm going to have to look into it.

Buried in the U23 release notes is this: "Dance of Death now has a 15 second cooldown. The duration has been increased to 10 seconds." Previously it was a 6-sec duration with a 60-sec CD. Going from an ability you can only use 10% of the time to one you can use 66.7% of the time is a huge improvement to AoE DPS. It's so good now that you don't even need Cleave feats on a Tempest anymore, unless you want Lay Waste / Momentum Swing from LD (still a pre-req). One of the strongest TWF builds right now is pal 15 / rgr 5: Holy Sword, Zeal, and Dance of Death.

From the wiki: "Dance of Death: Melee Dual Wielding Attack: Deals +1/+3/+5[W] damage. Your basic attacks when dual wielding strike 2/3/4 targets per swing instead of one for 10 seconds. (Cooldown: 15 seconds)"

[Phaeton_Seraph]

I may just try that. However... I'm new to multiclasing, so I was kinda wondering... if... there were any two class builds out there? You know? Baby steps

Are there any common Rogue/Monk builds out there?

[unbongwah]

Most of my rog / monk builds are rog 13 / monk 6, but since you want a monk PL, that doesn't do you any good. You could do something like monk 8/6/6, but monk 8 doesn't get you anything interesting, while monk 9 gets you Imp Evasion. Another option is monk 12 / rog 8, rog 5 / rgr 3, or whatever combo floats your boat.

[FCofKhatovar]

I know it's intimidating to try to multiclass when youve only played pure builds before. My suggestion would be to jump into the deep end for what you want to do. You want an assassin type build, dual weilding with short swords, for a monk past life. Unbongwah's suggestion of 5rog(for assassinate)/6rng(for TWF feats and tempest tree-the best TWF tree)/and 9mon(for imp evasion and monk PL) seems to be the best possible option for what you want to do. The ranged stuff can be taken, or, avoided for simplicity. If you'd like a detailed workup on this, or, a 12mon/8rog build, I could write em up for you. PM me or reply here, with your PLs and tome details, if you're interested.

[Phaeton_Seraph]

Thanks, I'll look into that build a bit, and decide from there.

Black Company FTW