Barbarian - Ravager Changes

[XxJFGxX]

Active attacks with a short cooldown and no other activation cost are extremely bad.

If you feel like an active attack should be usable more than once every 15 seconds, change it into a passive toggle effect.

Hmm tell that to the pally with a 5 sec cooldown cleave that stacks vulnerable on mobs and also does +5[w] while a FB tantrum has a cleave +5[w] with a 45 sec cooldown.

How would they be extremely bad? Personal taste or otherwise?

Active attacks with a short cooldown is not extremely bad. It means that we don't have to wait, which feels like a long while, and end up swinging in auto attack before using it again. Not saying to reduce the cooldown to next to nothing just a slightly less cooldown than it has now.

[Qhualor]

Hmm tell that to the pally with a 5 sec cooldown cleave that stacks vulnerable on mobs and also does +5[w] while a FB tantrum has a cleave +5[w] with a 45 sec cooldown.

How would they be extremely bad? Personal taste or otherwise?

Active attacks with a short cooldown is not extremely bad. It means that we don't have to wait, which feels like a long while, and end up swinging in auto attack before using it again. Not saying to reduce the cooldown to next to nothing just a slightly less cooldown than it has now.

Tantrum also requires IT. my barb didn't waste a feat for that enhancement when I will take Focused Wide or Focused Wrath. its a good enhancement but if im going to take a tactical feat im taking SB. as it is, im already spamming the cleaves plus SC.

[XxJFGxX]

Tantrum also requires IT. my barb didn't waste a feat for that enhancement when I will take Focused Wide or Focused Wrath. its a good enhancement but if im going to take a tactical feat im taking SB. as it is, im already spamming the cleaves plus SC.

What do you mean by "IT"? "IT" as in cooldown or prereqs? They are removing the feat requirements for Tantrum by as far as I know the 45 sec cooldown will remain which is a bad joke for a cleave attack. I don't know a FB Barb that doesn't take Focused Wrath or Wide. I personally take Focused Wrath because Focused Wide take too much AP for me to invest in it.

[Qhualor]

What do you mean by "IT"? "IT" as in cooldown or prereqs? They are removing the feat requirements for Tantrum by as far as I know the 45 sec cooldown will remain which is a bad joke for a cleave attack. I don't know a FB Barb that doesn't take Focused Wrath or Wide. I personally take Focused Wrath because Focused Wide take too much AP for me to invest in it.

Improved Trip. I wasn't aware that the feat req was being removed. that would be good if so. lots of Tier 5s to choose from than.

[XxJFGxX]

Improved Trip. I wasn't aware that the feat req was being removed. that would be good if so. lots of Tier 5s to choose from than.

Yeah it is going to be removed but the cooldown as far as I know will still be 45 secs which far too long for a cleave. Especially since Paladin's Avenging Cleave is also 5[w] damage and puts a stack of vulnerable of mobs that get it by it with a cooldown of 5 secs.

[gwonbush]

Yeah it is going to be removed but the cooldown as far as I know will still be 45 secs which far too long for a cleave. Especially since Paladin's Avenging Cleave is also 5[w] damage and puts a stack of vulnerable of mobs that get it by it with a cooldown of 5 secs.

Of course, Avenging Cleave shares its cooldown with Great Cleave, so it doesn't actually increase the amount of cleaving you do, just saves up a feat and does a bit more damage.

That being said, 45 seconds is still atrocious. 12-18 seconds would be much more reasonable.

[XxJFGxX]

Of course, Avenging Cleave shares its cooldown with Great Cleave, so it doesn't actually increase the amount of cleaving you do, just saves up a feat and does a bit more damage.

That being said, 45 seconds is still atrocious. 12-18 seconds would be much more reasonable.

True but a 45 second cooldown for ANY cleave is too much. I personally would be happy with 8-10 seconds.

[Blackheartox]

True but a 45 second cooldown for ANY cleave is too much. I personally would be happy with 8-10 seconds.

Imo 15 sec since it has a knock effect added.
Never tried but does the knock induce helpless or trip state?
Would depend how much it should be, if helpless then 20-30, if trip then 20-25, if only knock then 15 is fine.
Maybe a bit to strong but seems fine enough

[Qhualor]

Imo 15 sec since it has a knock effect added.
Never tried but does the knock induce helpless or trip state?
Would depend how much it should be, if helpless then 20-30, if trip then 20-25, if only knock then 15 is fine.
Maybe a bit to strong but seems fine enough

knockdown puts mobs in a helpless state. I can only assume it has a 45 second cooldown because other things can proc and that its more than just extra damage.

Tantrum: (2 AP) Tactical Melee Cleave: Expend 25 hit points to activate this ability and attack enemies around you. This deals +5[W] damage and has a 50% to knock down each damage enemy briefly on a failed Fortitude save vs. 10 + Strength modifier + Barbarian Level. Abilities that trigger on Supreme Cleave also trigger on Tantrum. (Blood Trail, Wade In, Lash Out, Sundering Spin, Storm's Eye)

on wiki, Storms Eye is crossed off but not in Sevs OP. be nice if Sev could clean it up like if IT is going to be removed unlike it says on wiki. this would prevent some confusion.

[brzytki]

knockdown puts mobs in a helpless state

No.

[Qhualor]

No.

yes

http://ddowiki.com/page/Helpless

[brzytki]

yes

http://ddowiki.com/page/Helpless

Oh, really? Your statement is absolute, meaning knockdown from ALL sources induces helplessness. That's not true. If that was the case, there wouldn't be instances when there is added text to the ability stating that "knockdown from this effect induces helplessness", for example in PA tier 3 ability Balanced Attacks. See how it specifically lists "Knockdown induced from Fury of the Wild's Overwhelming Force effect" in the helpless section? Does Boulder Toss induce helplessness (i'm seriously asking cause i don't know)? Knockdown from cometfall, cyclonic blast, (greater) command don't make the target helpless.

Knockdown
Prone

[Qhualor]

Oh, really? Your statement is absolute, meaning knockdown from ALL sources induces helplessness. That's not true. If that was the case, there wouldn't be instances when there is added text to the ability stating that "knockdown from this effect induces helplessness", for example in PA tier 3 ability Balanced Attacks. See how it specifically lists "Knockdown induced from Fury of the Wild's Overwhelming Force effect" in the helpless section? Does Boulder Toss induce helplessness (i'm seriously asking cause i don't know)? Knockdown from cometfall, cyclonic blast, (greater) command don't make the target helpless.

Knockdown
Prone

so you are saying the devs developed 2 knockdown codes where 1 works as helpless and the other doesn't? and people thought they didn't know what they were doing.

[XxJFGxX]

knockdown puts mobs in a helpless state. I can only assume it has a 45 second cooldown because other things can proc and that its more than just extra damage.

Tantrum: (2 AP) Tactical Melee Cleave: Expend 25 hit points to activate this ability and attack enemies around you. This deals +5[W] damage and has a 50% to knock down each damage enemy briefly on a failed Fortitude save vs. 10 + Strength modifier + Barbarian Level. Abilities that trigger on Supreme Cleave also trigger on Tantrum. (Blood Trail, Wade In, Lash Out, Sundering Spin, Storm's Eye)

on wiki, Storms Eye is crossed off but not in Sevs OP. be nice if Sev could clean it up like if IT is going to be removed unlike it says on wiki. this would prevent some confusion.

Tantrum has a 50% chance when it hits a mob for that mob to make a fort save. It's not a guarantee. And the knockdown does put them in a helpless state for 1/2 second. 45 seconds is too long. So lowering it to 6-8 second would not break it whatsoever.

[Qhualor]

Tantrum has a 50% chance when it hits a mob for that mob to make a fort save. It's not a guarantee. And the knockdown does put them in a helpless state for 1/2 second. 45 seconds is too long. So lowering it to 6-8 second would not break it whatsoever.

I already feel like I spam cleaves too often. When barbs were popular all you ever saw them do was cleave everything as soon as it was off cooldown, even single target. If it was to be reduced, I think 30 second cooldown is fine. For me, most mobs get knocked down most of the time. I watch other classes knockdown abilities like earthquake and cometfall and think it makes sense to have powerful abilities like that with long cooldowns.

[Blackheartox]

so you are saying the devs developed 2 knockdown codes where 1 works as helpless and the other doesn't? and people thought they didn't know what they were doing.

Well the knockdown from met star ruby does not induce helpless, so yea i will guess they developed 2

[Qhualor]

Well the knockdown from met star ruby does not induce helpless, so yea i will guess they developed 2

I'm talking about the knockdown effect from Tantrum and Overwhelming Force.

[Blackheartox]

I'm talking about the knockdown effect from Tantrum and Overwhelming Force.

I could test it during 1 etr, plan to do 3-4 as pure barb to get full insight how the class is now.
Last time i played barb was during lob era when it was actually fun to play hjeal mjeh max dps barb.

Most of the tier 5s from berserker cost feats that i would never use regulary

[XxJFGxX]

I could test it during 1 etr, plan to do 3-4 as pure barb to get full insight how the class is now.
Last time i played barb was during lob era when it was actually fun to play hjeal mjeh max dps barb.

Most of the tier 5s from berserker cost feats that i would never use regulary

Plus the nerf to their heal amp for a lil dps increase

[HatsuharuZ]

The problem with the current "Demoralizing Success" is that with a static 20 DC will saving throw, at higher levels it will only apply 5% of the time, when enemies roll a 1 on their saving throws against it. Perhaps the saving throw could scale? Or make it a short-term effect with no saving throw at all?