Barbarian - Ravager Changes

[Scrabbler]

Feats would be PA (1) TWF (3) ITWF (6) > IC:B (9), Dragonmark (12) TWF#3 (15), Dragonmark2 (18), Dragonmark3 (21) >

How is it possible to train more than one Dragonmark feat?

[Tilomere]

How is it possible to train more than one Dragonmark feat?

I adjusted the build. Took out no mercy and extra dragonmark feats, added cleave feats, supreme cleave, elf displacement and more HAMP. Now the build has decent AoE with 75 hp/sec self-healing, stuns, trapping, displacement, and solid armor/prr/mrr/hp.

Based on my experience playing in EE, this will definitely handle EE. It may not be the most uber build in the game, but that's not something healthy to compare to.

The big gain I see, is that barbs won't be tied to ED healing like twisting consecrate-sacred ground which is only available to nearly maxed ED characters (barbs start in primal sphere), or to healing from other classes like ameliorating strikes. So the prior build will work in any ED, or even without one. This is far friendlier to newer players.

[HatsuharuZ]

Some initial changes based on player feedback:

~ To increase the value of the capstone we are looking at making Visage of Terror an AoE attack centered on the Barbarian. If the Paralyze isn't working we'll need to fix that.

~ We are looking to change the force damage to bane damage.

Sev~

I like these changes.

Not sure about the "regenerating rage uses", though. Perhaps the length of time that "Barbarian Rage" lasts could be extended instead?

I'd suggest doing something similar to what was done with low level buffing spells a while back. Give it a larger "minimum duration" than BR currently has. That would make Visage of Terror less costly indirectly, and buff barbarians as well.

[Singular]

Slashing would be reduced by certain abilities and thus be a nerf. We don't want to do untyped. The problem with Bane is the same problem as alignment damage; players don't understand what is affected by it. For players, bane refers to damage that affects a specific creature type so I don't know if we want to use it for more universal damage like this.

I would personally like to make it bleed damage but I'd have to look at Bleed damage to make sure that's an actual damage type and see what reduces it.



We'll look into Fury again. Critical Fury got changed late in the process.

Sev~

If you honestly believe players are clueless to the game systems, you could add in a short descriptor after the word "bane" wherever "bane" appears. That would probably clear up naive player's understandings.

I would tend to think players are concerned about lore - in that case, bleed, slashing and untyped make sense, with the latter being the raw force the barb produces.

[brzytki]

The visage not only has a chance to kill outright; it paralyzes with no save which then boosts the damage of all melee tremendously.

Sev~

Unless you code it as rendering mobs helpless, it will do nothing to boost the damage. Cause regular paralyze =/= helplessness.

[btolson]

Would be interesting if you could run some reports on that or something. Of the few 20 Barbarians that I can imagine there are, it would be interesting to know their Capstone choice distribution.

I have a 20 barb on Khyber that I don't play much anymore. My capstone choice is nothing. It's not a con-centric build and the other two caps are trash regardless.

[flaggson]

No.. I'm sorry but no... barbs are supposed to be the melee dps king... and be slow to die ---- lots of mitigation... not lots of healing ... this reminds me of the old phoenix builds.. sure kinda fun... but not the build you take out when your playing for real.

[Lauf]

I see what you are saying about having the rage regeneration in the tree with extra rages.

Sev~

here's a thought, move the extra rages to the ravager tree
also, move the extended rage from OS (as it's supposed to be the "no rage" tree) to the ravager.
move improved PA from ravager to OS.

now suddenly the trees make sense.... one has regenerating rages (FB), another has more rages that last longer (ravager), and the third has the "no rage" damage bonuses (OS).

[Scrabbler]

Unless you code it as rendering mobs helpless, it will do nothing to boost the damage. Cause regular paralyze =/= helplessness.

What's an example of a Paralyze that doesn't include Helpless?

[Grailhawk]

What's an example of a Paralyze that doesn't include Helpless?

Paralyze Weapon effect do not make targets helpless. At least they didn't last time i used them which was probably 2010.

[Scrabbler]

Paralyze Weapon effect do not make targets helpless. At least they didn't last time i used them which was probably 2010.

What's the name of a weapon with a Paralyze effect on it? All the ones I've heard of were changed to Daze, specifically to account for not causing Helplessness like real Paralyze does.

[Grailhawk]

What's the name of a weapon with a Paralyze effect on it? All the ones I've heard of were changed to Daze, specifically to account for not causing Helplessness like real Paralyze does.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Element...ter_(Level_12)

[maddong]

As it is in ravager people will get 2.5 avg x 4 hamp (100 capstone + 40 other barb trees + 60 human/pdk + 100 from a prior 20 & 30 item for 300 total hamp) x 2 (assuming around 100 mp blitzing) = 20 healing per hit.

On a dual wield build that would attack about 2.7 times per second so 54 hp back a second. When you take into account prr/mrr it will trivialize most content.

A little less esoteric than tilomeres calcs....

[Scrabbler]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Element...ter_(Level_12)

Clicking on the link states that that the item causes a Daze, and that actual Paralyze includes Helplessness.

[Scrabbler]

It's a mistake to use a Meleepower stat to boost healing and defensive effects. If you want those effects to scale up with advancement, then scale them by level instead of Meleepower.

Doing them by Meleepower causes problems because (1) Meleepower increases much faster during epic levels, (2) temporary offensive-themed boosts also get a lot of defense, (3) FOTW bonus MP which is meant for 1 attack can be applied repeatedly to non-attack effects.


Someone might reply: "It's good that meleepower increases healing through epic levels, because epic monsters cause way more damage than heroic, and you'll need the healing". Well that is true on its own... but other forms of healing from heroic-tier character features don't get extra-fast progression during epic levels. They tend to scale by spellpower, which progresses more smoothly from heroic to epic.

[Grailhawk]

Clicking on the link states that that the item causes a Daze, and that actual Paralyze includes Helplessness.

Please quot where on the page the word dazed is used.

Description on the weapon clearly stats ".. DC 17 Will save or be paralyzed" hell searching the webpage for the word "daze" comes up with 0 matches. If the in game description has been changed cool they need to get better at clarifying what makes things helpless and what does not but last I know there are many things that were inconsistent in that regard.

[btolson]

I'd like to suggest an idea for reworking the entire way in which Fury stacks currently work. Given that Ravager is thematically modeled around spending as much time as possible in combat, racing from one fight to the next, rarely slowing down and never stopping, I think it would be much more appropriate and flavorful if a Ravager gains power and speed for being in constant combat, and loses it quickly whenever he pauses to rest.

The following idea behind Ravaging Fury allows stacks to build up pretty quickly (and almost passively) while in combat, and fall off quite quickly (multiple stacks at a time) if you stop fighting. Blood Strength was also adapted to derive its power from Ravaging Fury -- a Ravager lives to fight and fights to live!


Core 1 | Ravaging Fury: Whenever you strike an enemy, you gain a stack of Ravaging (internal cooldown of 2 seconds). Ravaging lasts for 3 seconds, can stack up to 8 times, and if not refreshed will fade 3 stacks at a time. For every 5 stacks of Ravaging that you have, you gain +1 damage and +2% movement speed*.

Core 3: Ravaging stacks to 13

Core 6: Ravaging stacks to 18

Core 12: Ravaging stacks to 25

Core 18: Ravaging stacks to 35. When you use Barbarian Rage, you gain 5 stacks of Ravaging

Capstone: Ravaging stacks to 50

Laughter: (t4) When Slaughter damages an enemy, you gain a stack of Ravaging. When Slaughter scores a critical hit on an enemy, you gain an additional 2 stacks of Ravaging and 10 Melee Power for 15 seconds.

Critical Fury (t5): When you score a critical hit, you gain a stack of Ravaging (this might need to be a % proc on crit or else have a cooldown; Ravaging stacks should still largely build based on time spent in combat)

Blood Strength (t5): Whenever you strike an enemy, you have a chance equal to your number of Ravaging stacks to be healed for 1d6 positive/repair energy (e.g., 50% chance at 50 stacks). Each time you kill an opponent you are healed for 1d20 hit points. This healing does not scale with Melee Power.



*In terms of implementation, since I fairly doubt you can directly grant +1 damage and +2% movement for every 5 stacks of Ravaging, I expect Ravaging stacks will serve as meta-stacks for Fury stacks (which will grant the actual bonuses and can be invisible to the player if desired). Which is to say, whenever stacks of Ravaging increment above a multiple of 5, or decrement below a multiple of 5, (or, more lazily, whenever your Ravaging stacks change at all) your Fury stacks will be cleared and set equal to [Current Ravaging Stacks]/5. The Ravaging stacks just offer a nice degree of granularity with which to smoothly manipulate the bonuses.

[Scrabbler]

Please quot where on the page the word dazed is used.

Sure, I can click the link for you if you need:

Paralyzing

Paralyzing.PNG
Prefix
Base price modifier: +5
Effect: Any creature struck by this weapon must succeed on a DC 17 Will save or be paralyzed. The target may attempt a new save to end the effect every several seconds; otherwise the paralysis lasts for 1 minute. Certain creatures, such as the Undead and Constructs, cannot be paralyzed.
Note: (Long ago, this caused the normal paralyzed status which included the expected helplessness and auto-crits. It was changed for balance reasons, and now is Daze-like in effect, as it prevents any action from the afflicted monster but does not render a creature helpless.)

[brzytki]

Clicking on the link states that that the item causes a Daze, and that actual Paralyze includes Helplessness.

??

How can you read it that way? From wiki entry on the effect "Paralyzing":

Note: (Long ago, this caused the normal paralyzed status which included the expected helplessness and auto-crits. It was changed for balance reasons, and now is Daze-like in effect, as it prevents any action from the afflicted monster but does not render a creature helpless.)

And one from the Paralyzed state:

Paralyzed creatures are unable to move or take actions of any kind. Afflicted targets are considered prone, but not helpless.

[Scrabbler]

How can you read it that way?

It's not complicated:

1. Someone complains that the Ravager capstone is too weak.
2. He thinks it's too weak because it does Paralyzed.
3. He thinks Paralyzed is too weak because it's not Helpless.
4. He thinks Paralyzed isn't Helpless because he used a Paralyzing weapon.
5. Clicking on the wiki entry for a Paralyzing weapon states that real Paralyzed includes Helplessness, and that this weapon is a special version that only acts like Dazed.
6. Therefore, the complaint that Ravager capstone Paralyzed doesn't include Helplessness is unfounded.