Barbarian - Frenzied Berserker Changes

[Takllin]

That's how the formlar works. With 0 MP your base would still be 150 HP.
Everything above that get's added (Base x 400% x MP).



The correct way to balance this is the MP, since that is the variable you can get way to high and multiplying that bonus by 4 is where it gets to much.
However adrenaline will always make this a problem. I'm not convinced a heal based on MP is the right way to go.
It's pretty much the same mistake they made when changing slayer arrow.

Erm, no it's not. It doesn't say you get 150+150*(MP * 4)....

It says 150*(MP * 4)....

Also this is not a heal ability, it is temporary HP...that lasts a minute...

How?
Con based 16 barb /4 fighter.

Prove me wrong.

If you want to compare compare base hit dice from bard vs barb and dont give such blatant false information.
A 12 bard 6 fighter 2 rogue is not a bard but a multiclass bard.

Telling someone that a multiclass bard is not a Bard, and then suggesting a multi class barbarian is a barbarian.......I'm at a loss for words.

Also I'm fairly certain that Zoda who created that Dwarf build did hit over 2k HP with that build in Unyielding Sentinel, as you have done. I'd have to ask him because I don't know for sure but if memory serves me right he did hit that mark. With stance.

Also what is your barbarian build? Which ED are you using? I run an 18 Barbarian/1 Favored Soul/1 Fighter in Divine Crusader that has Death Frenzy and Tier 5 Ravager. Has very good survivability and DPS is pretty good, but not better than Paladin. Not sure how it stacks up to Centered Kensai. It's at least close.

[Blackheartox]

Erm, no it's not. It doesn't say you get 150+150*(MP * 4)....

It says 150*(MP * 4)....

Also this is not a heal ability, it is temporary HP...that lasts a minute...



Telling someone that a multiclass bard is not a Bard, and then suggesting a multi class barbarian is a barbarian.......I'm at a loss for words.

Also I'm fairly certain that Zoda who created that Dwarf build did hit over 2k HP with that build in Unyielding Sentinel, as you have done. I'd have to ask him because I don't know for sure but if memory serves me right he did hit that mark. With stance.

Also what is your barbarian build? Which ED are you using? I run an 18 Barbarian/1 Favored Soul/1 Fighter in Divine Crusader that has Death Frenzy and Tier 5 Ravager. Has very good survivability and DPS is pretty good, but not better than Paladin. Not sure how it stacks up to Centered Kensai. It's at least close.

Ye i know i used the wrong example, but i knew that mister would push his multiclass to the end to argue a pointless thing
So i just used simples max con barb version i had in mind.
What is usaully ok for barb would be (when dps focused) 18 barb 1 druid 1 fsoul for max str.
But im wondering how a pure str int based barb would do with new berserker, go deep into berserker and harper for int dmight.

My build is simple classic alrdy done con based dwarf occult 5 focusing mainly on spell resist.
Only thing i did different is to put in harmor proficiency.
Can see prr in sentinel from screenie, add in that 15 from planar 30 from blitz 6 from bab from levels and 6 from 30 prr item and the survival becomes clear as the sky.
Il try to play the same build as 2 handed fight in ees during a etr or 2.
For now, im really not impressed by its dps, but i have a estimate feeling how much berserker is, new berserker will be quite fun.
It is mainly to get a feeling how barb works out in epic elite.
So far i have nothing to say against survival, 10% amp twist encrusted with 20%amp and epic gloves of claw have put my silver flame healing over 500, and its pretty much enough for low tier ee we did.

I run dreadnought with (now) 2 mjorhns, i usually focus most of my builds on warhammers since its only 2 t3 thforged i made

[XxJFGxX]

Show me a screenshot of a bard with 2 k hp while not stanced.

Sigh..

But here dear sire what a lv 22 barb can do, and il show you i broke it with rage





With rage:




Keep in mind, no eidolon neck, no epic litany, 6 levels worth of hp, no vitality item, no 11 con belt.
All which awaits me in tr cache.

So yea, i am not only talk, right? Dear sire

(sometimes i wonder why i bother)

Yay for the dwarf con build

[nibel]

Erm, no it's not. It doesn't say you get 150+150*(MP * 4)....

It says 150*(MP * 4)....

Actually, it is 150 * (1+ (MP*4)/100)

If you don't have this 1 in front of MP, then if you have MP 0, you get 0 THP. And that formula CAN be converted with simple math to 150 + (150 * MP * 4)

[Severlin]

Actually, it is 150 * (1+ (MP*4)/100)

If you don't have this 1 in front of MP, then if you have MP 0, you get 0 THP. And that formula CAN be converted with simple math to 150 + (150 * MP * 4)

150 * ((100 + (Melee Power * 4)) / 100)

Sev~

[Zengar]

150 * ((100 + (Melee Power * 4)) / 100)

Sev~

Which simplifies to 150 + (6 * Melee Power)

Although, I suppose the simplified form seems a little more . . . random. The more complex form saves you from having to explain where the 6 came from.

[Skeen]

Do you really not know what base hit dice is?

Also im currently playing a pure dorf barb to provide feedback here.
Currently we finished couple ee chains, me and buddy duo and in all honesty a barb can selfheal pretty easily in epic elite.
But it requires work, a 30% amp item a 20% amp item and 10% amp twist.
A silver flame hits me for 530 hp, with a currently at 21 1250 /this is fully boosted with madstone rage primal yugo etc hp pool that is more then enough considering im at 174 prr with blitz.
I dont understand, personally issue im having with barb is not survival but damage.
Its to low and beyond low when you compare to palies and centerd builds or 2 weap fight palie ranger or ranger palie fighter hybrids.
The dps imo at least should be way higher, the survival is fine, but requires work
In case this goes live i would jump up to 1600 hp or so at 21 and would be around 2.5 k at cap /or more lazy to fully calculate now

Thank you for proving the point. Barbs need more healamp, more HP and more DPS.

[droid327]

Which simplifies to 150 + (6 * Melee Power)

Although, I suppose the simplified form seems a little more . . . random. The more complex form saves you from having to explain where the 6 came from.

Or just change the description to scales 600% with MP, because that's what its actually doing? I mean the slope is the slope...the confusing part would be trying to explain that it scales with 150% of 400% of your melee power, which is what the formula describes

[XxJFGxX]

Thank you for proving the point. Barbs need more healamp, more HP and more DPS.

Don't count on more heal amp for FB PrE because Sev took most of that out for the small amount of melee power.

[Skeen]

Don't count on more heal amp for FB PrE because Sev took most of that out for the small amount of melee power.

I heard he is going to put hamp back in well as add an instakill and a strength mod to dexterity mod enhancement.

[Eth]

Or just change the description to scales 600% with MP, because that's what its actually doing?

Guess the point is to adress the other 2 tiers of the ability, without changing the description for every tier.

[Takllin]

150 * ((100 + (Melee Power * 4)) / 100)

Sev~

Heh so we were all wrong.

Thank you for proving the point. Barbs need more healamp, more HP and more DPS.

I can't tell if your post is serious or sarcastic? Occult Slayer has always been a more defensive minded tree, which is why he is lacking in the DPS department.

Don't count on more heal amp for FB PrE because Sev took most of that out for the small amount of melee power.

Small? 25 melee power is not small...that is the most passive given to any class so far. It mathematically puts Barbarians I believe at least 10% ahead of Paladins. Per Grailhawks numbers.

You also conveniently leave out the 400 damage on a 20 which scales with 100% melee power....

FB is a DPS tree, as it should be with these changes. If you want healing amp or extra HP you have two other trees that you can put points in to get that.

I heard he is going to put hamp back in well as add an instakill and a strength mod to dexterity mod enhancement.

Source or is this another sarcasm post?

[Severlin]

150 * ((100 + (Melee Power * 4)) / 100)

Which simplifies to 150 + (6 * Melee Power)

Although, I suppose the simplified form seems a little more . . . random. The more complex form saves you from having to explain where the 6 came from.

The only reason I wouldn't present that simplified formula is that it only works if the value of the temp hit points is exactly 150, so that formula isn't useful for other levels of the ability, nor is it useful if we increase or reduce the base hit points. I'd rather have the players see what is actually going on.

Sev~

[Severlin]

Small? 25 melee power is not small...that is the most passive given to any class so far. It mathematically puts Barbarians I believe at least 10% ahead of Paladins. Per Grailhawks numbers.

Early testing on our end suggests that the barbarian changes as presented will probably make barbarians overpowered and when we hit Lamannia I suspect the player feedback will indicate we will need to dial them back. If Paladin feedback has taught us anything it is that players tend to underestimate the cumulative power increase of a lot of smaller changes.

Sev~

[Grailhawk]

Early testing on our end suggests that the barbarian changes as presented will probably make barbarians overpowered and when we hit Lamannia I suspect the player feedback will indicate we will need to dial them back. If Paladin feedback has taught us anything it is that players tend to underestimate the cumulative power increase of a lot of smaller changes.

Sev~

I've been saying you guys are adding way too much power since you added SWF, Bards, Paladins, and now Barbarians. Only difference now is that since Bards and Paladins are where they are I would want Barbarians to be where they are going with the 25 MP since in my ideal world Barbarians and Rogues are the top DPS not Paladins and Bards.

[Takllin]

Early testing on our end suggests that the barbarian changes as presented will probably make barbarians overpowered and when we hit Lamannia I suspect the player feedback will indicate we will need to dial them back. If Paladin feedback has taught us anything it is that players tend to underestimate the cumulative power increase of a lot of smaller changes.

Sev~

DPS wise I'd tend to agree. I'm not sure allowing the 400 damage to scale with MP is good game balance. I think it should be static. Like the Paladin 18 core against undead.

Having actually played a Barbarian at cap I don't think they need tons of help in terms of DPS. Though they should have the highest DPS of melee classes which they currently don't.

[Monkey-Boy]

Early testing on our end suggests that the barbarian changes as presented will probably make barbarians overpowered and when we hit Lamannia I suspect the player feedback will indicate we will need to dial them back. If Paladin feedback has taught us anything it is that players tend to underestimate the cumulative power increase of a lot of smaller changes.

Sev~

Do I smell a pally nerf in the future?

[Takllin]

I've been saying you guys are adding way to much power since you added SWF, Bards, Paladins, and now Barbarians. Only difference now is that since Bards and Paladins are where they are I would want Barbarians to be where they are going with the 25 MP since in my ideal world Barbarians and Rogues are the top DPS not Paladins and Bards.

I agree. I've said many times that even dating back to Centered Kensai it was far too powerful, and asked for nerfs. It seems like a useless cause, so I'd rather try and focus on curbing the amount of power then asking them to nerf, because it clearly isn't going to happen.

[brzytki]

Do I smell a pally nerf in the future?

Wait till i'm done with pally lives and nerf away!

[Takllin]

Do I smell a pally nerf in the future?

I hope so. I'd actually go back and play it depending on the nerfs.