Barbarian - Frenzied Berserker Changes

[HatsuharuZ]

In all honestly Blood Tribute: (1/1/1 AP) Gain +50/+100/+150 Temporary Health for one minute. This scales with 400% Melee Power. You have a stacking -1 penalty to constitution until you rest or die. (Cooldown: 3 seconds)


This seems a bit silly.
How much temp hp will it be on a fully blitzed barb?
I dont consider this balanced at all, tone it down

I'm thinking about all of the AoEs caster mobs throw around at high levels, and I think it's just fine.

However, the 3 second cooldown is too low, imo.

[Blackheartox]

I'm thinking about all of the AoEs caster mobs throw around at high levels, and I think it's just fine.

However, the 3 second cooldown is too low, imo.

Thing is if i counted that correct as well, counting harmor ring from mark a shelter item and all things you get from occult slayer a barb will be able to reach 125 mrr /prolly more as i most prolly missed some things.
You can spare restover points into berserker for blood tribute.
I know lowering your spell resist isnt flawless as occult, but you can afford to drop it depending on content as you do not need maxed sr for 99% ee content.
So the part where the spell damage becomes a issue is briliantly negated with that ammounf of mrr and temp hp you get from occult when spell is cast on you /that ability also has scaling based on mrr.
I mean i like the general path they are taking, but to make it stronger then palie and bard and then bounce to next weak class like artie and proceed with more buffs wont do any good for ddos health in my honest opinion.
I might be wrong, totally wrong, but as i belive my own perception i will say that i am correct.

[lyrecono]

@ `sev,

changing that crit mod to 2X instead of 1X. this will get it close to paly dps, not top it, if you fear mis use, make it work only when raging and weilding a 2 handed weapon.
storm's eye; removing the "loose when at 50% hp rule" to make it actualy work sounds good too.
a barb should easely reach 3,5 min of rage, the +4 con in the capstone only helps dwarven frenzied berzerkers, a selection between str or con in the capstone would be very nice indeed.
a toggle for frenzy and death frenzy, simmular to power attack, but for pete's sake, make it stay on after logging out and in again. These 2 would make a lot of barbs happy.


the main concern most people seem to have is the FB's dps, with these changes you made they are still outshined by paladins and bards.
i see that you're carefully trying to bring it to the lv of swashbuckler or knight of the chalice. You are by many people's opinion here, missing the point of the barbaian, since it's only option in DDO is to do melee damage.
A frenzied berzerker should by all means out dps both of those, since the class and tree have nothing else to offer but dps.

make us smash things again

[XxJFGxX]

@ `sev,

changing that crit mod to 2X instead of 1X. this will get it close to paly dps, not top it, if you fear mis use, make it work only when raging and weilding a 2 handed weapon.
storm's eye; removing the "loose when at 50% hp rule" to make it actualy work sounds good too.
a barb should easely reach 3,5 min of rage, the +4 con in the capstone only helps dwarven frenzied berzerkers, a selection between str or con in the capstone would be very nice indeed.
a toggle for frenzy and death frenzy, simmular to power attack, but for pete's sake, make it stay on after logging out and in again. These 2 would make a lot of barbs happy.


the main concern most people seem to have is the FB's dps, with these changes you made they are still outshined by paladins and bards.
i see that you're carefully trying to bring it to the lv of swashbuckler or knight of the chalice. You are by many people's opinion here, missing the point of the barbaian, since it's only option in DDO is to do melee damage.
A frenzied berzerker should by all means out dps both of those, since the class and tree have nothing else to offer but dps.

make us smash things again

On top of that give us FB out heal amp and instead of a extra 300 hp make it % based hp increase for FB, Ravager and OS.

[Eth]

Blood Tribute: (1/1/1 AP) Gain +50/+100/+150 Temporary Health for one minute. This scales with 400% Melee Power. You have a stacking -1 penalty to constitution until you rest or die. (Cooldown: 3 seconds)


Do temporary MP bonuses effect abilities like this?
Or in other words - if I activate an adrenaline, putting me to 470 MP on my next attack, would blood tribute get effected by that temporary MP?

[Rull]

I think it would be save to assume Adrenaline works for blood tribute.
The MP from adrenaline seems to be a buff that gets removed on your next succesful attack; it doesn't seem to just influence that attack specifically.
Your grazing hits up until that point get the boost. The extra MP even show on your character sheet. So i'm pretty sure you just them.

70 MP + 400 = 470 MP
150 + 150 * 4 * 4.7 = 2970 temporary HP

I call it furyhealing.

[Eth]

I think it would be save to assume Adrenaline works for blood tribute.
The MP from adrenaline seems to be a buff that gets removed on your next succesful attack; it doesn't seem to just influence that attack specifically.
Your grazing hits up until that point get the boost. The extra MP even show on your character sheet. So i'm pretty sure you just them.

70 MP + 400 = 470 MP
150 + 150 * 4 * 4.7 = 2970 temporary HP

I call it furyhealing.

Yes, that's what I was thinking. 3K HP, lol.
Since it's temporary HP, there is no overhealing, so you actually get those, making this, well - I'll say it - OP.

[Blackheartox]

Yes, that's what I was thinking. 3K HP, lol.
Since it's temporary HP, there is no overhealing, so you actually get those, making this, well - I'll say it - OP.

I used blitz as example, but yea fury is better to showcase huge numbers you can get

I mean as i said multiple times, im all for making barbs viable.
But this is just silly

[Takllin]

I think it would be save to assume Adrenaline works for blood tribute.
The MP from adrenaline seems to be a buff that gets removed on your next succesful attack; it doesn't seem to just influence that attack specifically.
Your grazing hits up until that point get the boost. The extra MP even show on your character sheet. So i'm pretty sure you just them.

70 MP + 400 = 470 MP
150 + 150 * 4 * 4.7 = 2970 temporary HP

I call it furyhealing.

Where are you getting two sets of 150?

It does only last a minute, I think either you scale down the amount of MP or increase the number of CON it requires.

[Eth]

Where are you getting two sets of 150?

That's how the formlar works. With 0 MP your base would still be 150 HP.
Everything above that get's added (Base x 400% x MP).

It does only last a minute, I think either you scale down the amount of MP or increase the number of CON it requires.

The correct way to balance this is the MP, since that is the variable you can get way to high and multiplying that bonus by 4 is where it gets to much.
However adrenaline will always make this a problem. I'm not convinced a heal based on MP is the right way to go.
It's pretty much the same mistake they made when changing slayer arrow.

[Blackheartox]

That's how the formlar works. With 0 MP your base would still be 150 HP.
Everything above that get's added (Base x 400% x MP).



The correct way to balance this is the MP, since that is the variable you can get way to high and multiplying that bonus by 4 is where it gets to much.
However adrenaline will always make this a problem. I'm not convinced a heal based on MP is the right way to go.
It's pretty much the same mistake they made when changing slayer arrow.

Yes also keep in mind that you can do a swf barb with druid levels for fatal harrier, or a 2weapon fight fatal harrier barb.
The selfheal capability of that is alrdy without testing amazing.

Some kinda barb bard fighter or whatever might also work out.
There are many ideas you can go mess with if they keep that change.
And all those ideas have potential to be stronger then palies

[XxJFGxX]

I wonder if they are going to work more on the actual enhancements of FB that arn't very useful aside from giving it more melee power and reducing the hamp.

[MangLord]

Also, keep in mind that Paladins can easily self heal with LOH, cure spells and a large HP pool, and Bards can Fascinate the majority of a mob when they get in trouble, even if they don't have a ton of HP. A swashbuckler can instakill, but the Coup cooldown is rather long. It's fairly easy to get 20%+ dodge (+10% incorporeal and 50% displacement) as a swashbuckler, but much more difficult for a barbarian that can't cast a displacement before a boss fight and must rely on raw DPS to get through an encounter alive. Barbarian DPS really should be truly amazing when they rage. Even sorcs have a wealth of buff spells and warforged self healing, while a Horc barbarian has none. Bards and Paladins also have several crucial buffs such as Death Ward, Greater Heroism and Blur, and they now have excellent DPS, so I imagine a barbarian would have to have DPS on a sorcerer level to compete, or perhaps more given that sorcs have access to so many buffs and incredible DPS. 10k crits seem more than acceptable to me, given the wealth of benefits that paladins, sorcerers and swashbucklers have that a barbarian has to do without. Honestly, I don't see a 15-20 crit range of x6 with a greataxe to be game breaking. That would just make barbarians able to be an asset in EE, instead of a liability.

[XxJFGxX]

Also, keep in mind that Paladins can easily self heal with LOH, cure spells and a large HP pool, and Bards can Fascinate the majority of a mob when they get in trouble, even if they don't have a ton of HP. A swashbuckler can instakill, but the Coup cooldown is rather long. It's fairly easy to get 20%+ dodge (+10% incorporeal and 50% displacement) as a swashbuckler, but much more difficult for a barbarian that can't cast a displacement before a boss fight and must rely on raw DPS to get through an encounter alive. Barbarian DPS really should be truly amazing when they rage. Even sorcs have a wealth of buff spells and warforged self healing, while a Horc barbarian has none. Bards and Paladins also have several crucial buffs such as Death Ward, Greater Heroism and Blur, and they now have excellent DPS, so I imagine a barbarian would have to have DPS on a sorcerer level to compete, or perhaps more given that sorcs have access to so many buffs and incredible DPS. 10k crits seem more than acceptable to me, given the wealth of benefits that paladins, sorcerers and swashbucklers have that a barbarian has to do without. Honestly, I don't see a 15-20 crit range of x6 with a greataxe to be game breaking. That would just make barbarians able to be an asset in EE, instead of a liability.

I agree. You are preaching to the choir. Barbarians need the ability to do MASSIVE amounts of damage. I think it should be added to FB because as of right now it has a small DPS increase with the melee power and 1[w] from the tier 5 with the huge sacrifice to HP and heal amp. But it needs MORE in order to be relevant in EE and in general. I mean what's the point in playing a FB Barb now when a pally can outshine a FB barb in terms of self healing obviously, saves obviously, heal amp and now DPS. And I foresee after U24 if somethings are not addressed and changed there still will be no point in playing a FB Barb for DPS with the small DPS increase that comes with the sacrifice to the heal amp that the other PrEs have. The lack of hp bonus from FB I can deal with because it would have been an extra 300 hp or so. So it would block an extra hit or two in EE.

If Sevs goal is to give Barbarians extra HP and heal amp then instead of giving 2 Barb PrEs (Ravager and Occult Slayer), 300+ extra hp and an extra 100 heal amp and almost snuff FB out of that in exchange of a small DPS boost, which I still don't understand why given that Occult Slayer and Ravager got a big increase in power and still keeps the bonuses, why not perhaps change the suppose hp boost to a percentage increase in all the cores and beef the FB heal amp back up. Why can't FB have a DPS boost that they need AND have the increase in HP and heal amp like the other PrEs?

[Teh_Bugbear]

Also, keep in mind that Paladins can easily self heal with LOH, cure spells and a large HP pool, and Bards can Fascinate the majority of a mob when they get in trouble, even if they don't have a ton of HP. A swashbuckler can instakill, but the Coup cooldown is rather long. It's fairly easy to get 20%+ dodge (+10% incorporeal and 50% displacement) as a swashbuckler, but much more difficult for a barbarian that can't cast a displacement before a boss fight and must rely on raw DPS to get through an encounter alive. Barbarian DPS really should be truly amazing when they rage. Even sorcs have a wealth of buff spells and warforged self healing, while a Horc barbarian has none. Bards and Paladins also have several crucial buffs such as Death Ward, Greater Heroism and Blur, and they now have excellent DPS, so I imagine a barbarian would have to have DPS on a sorcerer level to compete, or perhaps more given that sorcs have access to so many buffs and incredible DPS. 10k crits seem more than acceptable to me, given the wealth of benefits that paladins, sorcerers and swashbucklers have that a barbarian has to do without. Honestly, I don't see a 15-20 crit range of x6 with a greataxe to be game breaking. That would just make barbarians able to be an asset in EE, instead of a liability.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...efender-parody. Excuse me, but did you say something ?

ps. bards can easily reach a higher hp pool beyond any barbarian out there.

[Blackheartox]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...efender-parody. Excuse me, but did you say something ?

ps. bards can easily reach a higher hp pool beyond any barbarian out there.

How?
Con based 16 barb /4 fighter.

Prove me wrong.

If you want to compare compare base hit dice from bard vs barb and dont give such blatant false information.
A 12 bard 6 fighter 2 rogue is not a bard but a multiclass bard.

[Teh_Bugbear]

How?
Con based 16 barb /4 fighter.

Prove me wrong.

If you want to compare compare base hit dice from bard vs barb and dont give such blatant false information.
A 12 bard 6 fighter 2 rogue is not a bard but a multiclass bard.

What is there to prove ? Some squishy barbarian with less hp, defense and dps than a bard ? Don't make me laugh ! Obviously 12 bard Levels represent the dominant class thus it is still considered a bard eitherway. How else would you be allowed to chose a past life *bard* for being such sherlock.

[Blackheartox]

What is there to prove ? Some squishy barbarian with less hp, defense and dps than a bard ? Don't make me laugh ! Obviously 12 bard Levels represent the dominant class thus it is still considered a bard eitherway.

Do you really not know what base hit dice is?

Also im currently playing a pure dorf barb to provide feedback here.
Currently we finished couple ee chains, me and buddy duo and in all honesty a barb can selfheal pretty easily in epic elite.
But it requires work, a 30% amp item a 20% amp item and 10% amp twist.
A silver flame hits me for 530 hp, with a currently at 21 1250 /this is fully boosted with madstone rage primal yugo etc hp pool that is more then enough considering im at 174 prr with blitz.
I dont understand, personally issue im having with barb is not survival but damage.
Its to low and beyond low when you compare to palies and centerd builds or 2 weap fight palie ranger or ranger palie fighter hybrids.
The dps imo at least should be way higher, the survival is fine, but requires work
In case this goes live i would jump up to 1600 hp or so at 21 and would be around 2.5 k at cap /or more lazy to fully calculate now

[Teh_Bugbear]

Do you really not know what base hit dice is?

Also im currently playing a pure dorf barb to provide feedback here.
Currently we finished couple ee chains, me and buddy duo and in all honesty a barb can selfheal pretty easily in epic elite.
But it requires work, a 30% amp item a 20% amp item and 10% amp twist.
A silver flame hits me for 530 hp, with a currently at 21 1250 /this is fully boosted with madstone rage primal yugo etc hp pool that is more then enough considering im at 174 prr with blitz.
I dont understand, personally issue im having with barb is not survival but damage.
Its to low and beyond low when you compare to palies and centerd builds or 2 weap fight palie ranger or ranger palie fighter hybrids.
The dps imo at least should be way higher, the survival is fine, but requires work
In case this goes live i would jump up to 1600 hp or so at 21 and would be around 2.5 k at cap /or more lazy to fully calculate now

Base hit dice doesn't mean **** in this game. Show me a Screenshot of a barbarian having 2k hp while not raged. Don't talk, just prove it. Clearly you are all talk.

[Blackheartox]

Base hit dice doesn't mean **** in this game. Show me a Screenshot of a barbarian having 2k hp while not raged. Don't talk, just prove it. Clearly you are all talk.

Show me a screenshot of a bard with 2 k hp while not stanced.

Sigh..

But here dear sire what a lv 22 barb can do, and il show you i broke it with rage





With rage:




Keep in mind, no eidolon neck, no epic litany, 6 levels worth of hp, no vitality item, no 11 con belt.
All which awaits me in tr cache.

So yea, i am not only talk, right? Dear sire

(sometimes i wonder why i bother)