Barbarian - Frenzied Berserker Changes

[FestusHood]

The Perfect Rage: Each vorpal melee hit you deliver does additional damage equal to your Barbarian level x 20. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.
Sev~

Would this be part of base damage, like a slayer arrow, or be a proc effect, and therefore not multiplied by the inevitable critical hit that would come with a vorpal?

I don't really like it as a proc effect, as above poster mentioned it would essentially be like a lightning strike. Meh. Rather it was added to base damage, but probably toned down some, like maybe barb level x 10.

Yes, as written it would greatly benefit single weapon and two weapon fighting above two handed.

[PermaBanned]

A few initial changes based on players feedback:

~ The capstone core ability for Frenzied Berserker will also regenerate 1 charge of Rage every 120 seconds.

~ The tier 5 ability Accelerated Metabolism will be a multi-selector. The player can choose the healing ability or another ability to do more damage. Here's what we are thinking:

The Perfect Rage: Each vorpal melee hit you deliver does additional damage equal to your Barbarian level x 20. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.


Sev~

So... In one tree, we get a capstone to ensure we never run out of Rage, and in a different tree we get a capstone that - if we use it more than a few times - we may well run out of Rage...

What player feedback did I miss that made this a good arrangement?

The multiselector idea is interesting. I saw your follow up saying it's fixed on a 20 - so to be clear, you're saying that Perfect Single Weapon Fighting's "Vorpal effects trigger on a 19 or 20" would not apply?

[bbqzor]

If it works like we imagine it to, then it will have a chance to proc on glancing blows like many on hit attacks. The idea is that will help even things out.

As a passive proc? Like every glance which rolls a 20? Or as an effect, where its like that "9% chance to proc flaming on glances" which then also has to be a 20?

If its just 20s, ANY 20, glances included... okay yea. But thats a new unique mechanic we havent seen on anything else, that Im aware of anyhow. Cool idea.

[Wizza]

A few initial changes based on players feedback:

~ The capstone core ability for Frenzied Berserker will also regenerate 1 charge of Rage every 120 seconds.

~ The tier 5 ability Accelerated Metabolism will be a multi-selector. The player can choose the healing ability or another ability to do more damage. Here's what we are thinking:

The Perfect Rage: Each vorpal melee hit you deliver does additional damage equal to your Barbarian level x 20. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.


Sev~

Make this the Core at level 18 and 20 and you gave Barbarians a reason to stay pure.

[theRolf]

1) FBs rarely have issues running out of rages in my experience. That happens farm more commonly in ravager (capstone) or occult slayer (turn rage on and off alot to do different things). With FB, so many effects require rage, its on and stays on, and generally you have enough. That said, its not an unliked idea, just one that Im not sure is necessary or fitting, to the point where youd want to do that over anything else.

2) Bad idea. Just makes swf barbs even better over 2hd. If anything, FB should focus on and support 2hd the most, if not to the exclusion of other styles. It was born of 2hd power attack in pnp, and for years in ddo has encouraged that style due to glances, aoe cleaves, etc. Concept might be ok, needs different mechanics that work best with 2hd, not with something else.

No issues with running out of rages bc there is no reason - currently - to use them. they hurt more than help.

[Severlin]

Make this the Core at level 18 and 20 and you gave Barbarians a reason to stay pure.

The vorpal ability is specifically designed to give a DPS alternative to the healing. We wouldn't want a barbarian, even pure, to get both.

The vorpal ability scales with barbarian level.

We'd rather work on the cores.

Sev~

[Wizza]

The vorpal ability is specifically designed to give a DPS alternative to the healing. We wouldn't want a barbarian, even pure, to get both.

The vorpal ability scales with barbarian level.

We'd rather work on the cores.

Sev~

I don't get why you would make such a powerful ability a T5 instead of Core level 20. As seen with the replies, pretty much everyone agrees on 2 points:

1) No reason to stay pure barb at the moment.
2) Frenzied Berserker should do way more DPS.

Making Perfect Rage the capstone and you solve both problem.

If you are telling me that you want to keep this as T5 and re-work the cores (the capstone and the passive you just added specifically) COMPLETELY, then I'll wait for the next round of cores. As they look now, they are flat out boring and it's not helping with neither issue 1) nor 2).

[lyrecono]

A few initial changes based on players feedback:

~ The capstone core ability for Frenzied Berserker will also regenerate 1 charge of Rage every 120 seconds.

~ The tier 5 ability Accelerated Metabolism will be a multi-selector. The player can choose the healing ability or another ability to do more damage. Here's what we are thinking:

The Perfect Rage: Each vorpal melee hit you deliver does additional damage equal to your Barbarian level x 20. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.


Sev~

The vorpal ability is specifically designed to give a DPS alternative to the healing. We wouldn't want a barbarian, even pure, to get both.

The vorpal ability scales with barbarian level.

We'd rather work on the cores.

Sev~

so if i understand correctly, 40X200%melee power=8000 damage
i assume this doesn't multiply with crits?
maybe ad some base dps in the cores?

[Wulverine]

Give Frenzied Berserkers the ability to use 200% of their damage modifier for THF (instead of 150%).

[Scrabbler]

The Perfect Rage: Each vorpal melee hit you deliver does additional damage equal to your Barbarian level x 20. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.

A funny consequence of that Perfect Rage is strongly encouraging SWF Barbarians, since the highest rate of Vorpal hits is achieved with the epic PSWF feat. In turn, that will encourage Barb17/Bard3 builds, as they get way better crits with a single weapon.


PS. As a matter of source-material theme, I'd prefer if the Occult Slayer tree is more favorable to SWF Barbs. But whatever.

~ The tier 5 ability Accelerated Metabolism will be a multi-selector. The player can choose the healing ability or another ability to do more damage

So the plan is for a t5 multiselector to give you either good self-healing or a pretty large damage boost. A negative consequence of that that just 1 icon in the enhancement build will totally change an FB Barb character from being solo-capable to being stronger in a group with healers. There are various downsides to freedom of party joining, etc.

Let's consider a variation:

Training the single t5 FB enhancement gives you two active icons (like how Resist Energy has 5 icons), one for Accelerated Metabolism and one for Perfect Rage. Each of those costs 1 Rage and gives you the benefit for 60 sec per Barb level. Casting one of them cancels the other. Because this version has more flexibility, the numerical strength of this Perfect Rage is lower.

[nibel]

The capstone core ability for Frenzied Berserker will also regenerate 1 charge of Rage every 120 seconds.

Change that to Ravager, and I will yay. Ravager is the tree that actually spend Rages as currency.

The tier 5 ability Accelerated Metabolism will be a multi-selector. The player can choose the healing ability or another ability to do more damage. Here's what we are thinking:

The Perfect Rage: Each vorpal melee hit you deliver does additional damage equal to your Barbarian level x 20. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.

Any word on the healing ability also being possibly a repair effect instead of positive healing? As in, a third option on this selector (Positive regen, Repair regen, Perfect Rage).

Also, on Perfect Rage, please add the conditionals: "while raging" and "while wielding a two-handed weapon". I know Turbine likes to make things as generic as possible to not limit playstyles, but without the THW limitation, it will just be an incentive to splash bard for better/faster crits.

[Violith]

so if i understand correctly, 40X200%melee power=8000 damage
i assume this doesn't multiply with crits?
maybe ad some base dps in the cores?

not sure where you got 8k (barb lvl = 20), so 20x20 = 400. at 100% melee power scaling. so 800dmg with 100% melee power. even at 28 in FOTW with adrenaline, I dont see this being above 2k.

[Scrabbler]

Also, on Perfect Rage, please add the conditionals: "while raging" and "while wielding a two-handed weapon". I know Turbine likes to make things as generic as possible to not limit playstyles, but without the THW limitation, it will just be an incentive to splash bard for better/faster crits.

Instead of a strict "THF only" restriction for Perfect Rage, they could make the damage 12 mainhand, 8 offhand, 20 both.

[PermaBanned]

Let's consider a variation:

Training the single t5 FB enhancement gives you two active icons (like how Resist Energy has 5 icons), one for Accelerated Metabolism and one for Perfect Rage. Each of those costs 1 Rage and gives you the benefit for 60 sec per Barb level. Casting one of them cancels the other. Because this version has more flexibility, the numerical strength of this Perfect Rage is lower.

I like this, make it so! It offers in-quest flexibility, and provides a use for those regenerating Rages. Total /win!

[FlaviusMaximus]

~ The tier 5 ability Accelerated Metabolism will be a multi-selector. The player can choose the healing ability or another ability to do more damage.

Very nice. Good idea making it a multiselector to give players options between self healing and extra DPS.

Make this the Core at level 18 and 20 and you gave Barbarians a reason to stay pure.

The reasons to invest heavily in Barbarian are built into the ability. It's Barbarian level x 20. If you take 20 Barbarian levels, the ability does 4x more damage than the ability if you take 5 Barbarian levels.

Give Frenzied Berserkers the ability to use 200% of their damage modifier for THF (instead of 150%).

Good idea. SWF and TWF might need a decreased but similar benefit as part of the package.

[esojiul]

I would be happy to heal a barbarian if his DPS output makes it worthwhile.
currently its better to just let him die, pickup his stone and kite the mobs through the blade barrier vs dumping a mana bar spam healing a barbarian killing himself on kobolds.

We need to see Barbarians getting big crits outdistancing every other DPS class significantly in generic situations.
I expect the rogue damage to be great as long as he is sneak attacking vulnerable mobs.
I expect the Paladin to do great DPS against Evil mobs and undead.
I expect the Fighter to do good damage to all mob types
I expect the monk to have great healing amp and do good damage , not get hit often but when they do it hurts.
I expect the Barbarian to.... Massive crits, little damage mitigation, poor self healing, but stuff dies quick..The HP sponge, but its worthit because of the DPS..

It needs to be worth someones time to heal the barbarian while he destroys stuff, otherwise its not worth having a barbarian in the party.

I agree, to balance req more dmg, more hp and instead of healing amplication give more dodge >40% and mrr

[HatsuharuZ]

A suggestion for "Storm's Eye":

I think that since FB-specced barbarians are going to take more damage than other barbarians, they should get increased physical damage mitigation. However, this is mainly a DPS tree, so.... here's a suggestion for you:

Storm's Eye: Activated Ability: When the going gets tough, you get tougher. You gain "When damaged: you gain +1 melee damage and +1 PRR. This stacks up to 25 times, and stacks fade away one at a time". [insert appropriate cooldown and timer here]


Basically, it's an activated ability with a moderate to long cooldown which can be used regardless of what your HP is. The currently-proposed "Storm's Eye" forces the player to keep himself above 50% HP, which can be very hard to do in the midst of combat.

[Aliekiller]

An interaction to keep in mind, and checking how it's supposed to work:

I see most of these trees have great scaling with melee power - This is good, since they can be relevant in epics without outshining everything else on heroics.

However, most melee-power scaling stuff so far have been attacks. Here we have heals and temporary hp buffs.

Which brings me to the point - How should this interact with Fury of the Wild's Adrenaline? Especially blood tribute. If you click the adrenaline overload for +400 melee power until your next attack, then use blood tribute, it seems like you'd get over 2500 temporary hp, which, all said and done, doesn't seem to be the intent.

Also, since you're considered raged until your next attack, accelerated metabolism might just be ticking away those heals, tough this doesn't seem too bad. As long as it isn't affected by the +400 melee power.

So... How is it intended to interact with FotW? Since it's the most 'barbarian' epic destiny it makes sense to work well with the class, but if it works like this, it might be a bit too much.

[BigJobbs]

The vorpal ability is specifically designed to give a DPS alternative to the healing. We wouldn't want a barbarian, even pure, to get both.

The vorpal ability scales with barbarian level.

We'd rather work on the cores.

Sev~

Let's consider a variation:

Training the single t5 FB enhancement gives you two active icons (like how Resist Energy has 5 icons), one for Accelerated Metabolism and one for Perfect Rage. Each of those costs 1 Rage and gives you the benefit for 60 sec per Barb level. Casting one of them cancels the other. Because this version has more flexibility, the numerical strength of this Perfect Rage is lower.

Another thought - what if the vorpal ability was active until you use the heal, which puts the vorpal ability onto a cooldown?

[Rull]

One of the problem with barbarians was that they were terrible to multiclass, except fot 18/X maybe. Partly barb doesn't make sense like 10 rogue, 13 rogue, 6 ranger, 8 fighter, 12 fighter, 9 monk, 9 druid, etc. does.
Adress this instead of focussing on more power to capstone.
There are 50,479 possible class splitd, don't reduce them to 13.