Barbarian - Frenzied Berserker Changes

[Violith]

I really don't understand how people cant read the description. its there plain as day. it costs 10 hit points to activate. you gain 30 hit points when you activate it. that's a gain of 20 hit points. you lose it eventually as you do vicious damage to yourself or other means of damage.

I actually feel like im being trolled here.

read the other core abilities,They all have a HP and healing amp addition. its not just frenzy. Thats because they are all passive abilities you get when you spend the AP for the core. Not when you use the ability

[Wulverine]

I really don't understand how people cant read the description. its there plain as day. it costs 10 hit points to activate. you gain 30 hit points when you activate it. that's a gain of 20 hit points. you lose it eventually as you do vicious damage to yourself or other means of damage.

I actually feel like im being trolled here.

Hah, I'm feeling like you're the one doing that

The 30HP gain and the HealAmp boost is permanent. It's always active. It isn't linked to activating Frenzy in any way.

(Though yes, i can see how you can read it that way)

[brzytki]

simple math is simple math. read the description and read what I wrote.

Either you are trolling or you are a dump Int barb. I have a quest for you. It's really complicated so i don't think you can handle it but please try.
1.Go to all 3 threads about barbarian enhancements, Ravager, FB and Occult Slayer.
2.Read and compare only cores in every tree.
3.Come back here and tell me again that you gain 20 hp (30-10=20 "cause simple math is simple math") from activating Frenzy.

lol

[Qhualor]

Hah, I'm feeling like you're the one doing that

The 30HP gain and the HealAmp boost is permanent. It's always active. It isn't linked to activating Frenzy in any way.

(Though yes, i can see how you can read it that way)

its only active for 1 minute. makes no sense to be active the whole time when not using it. as you take damage you lose hit points. that 20 or 30 hit points doesnt stay permanently.

[Wulverine]

its only active for 30 seconds. makes no sense to be active the whole time when not using it. as you take damage you lose hit points. that 20 or 30 hit points doesnt stay permanently.

It *does* stay permanent. It's *not* temporary HP. It is a permanent HP addition.

Do you really think all of us can't read 1 simple description? And you're the only one who can?

This is the last time I'll post about it, since I think you're trolling.


Edit: Looks like you got it.. Finally

[Qhualor]

read the other core abilities,They all have a HP and healing amp addition. its not just frenzy. Thats because they are all passive abilities you get when you spend the AP for the core. Not when you use the ability

ok thank you. finally someone made sense.

if anyone has any popcorn left, stick around because im sure ill provide more drama and not let it go to waste.

[theRolf]

Either you are trolling or you are a dump Int barb. I have a quest for you. It's really complicated so i don't think you can handle it but please try.
1.Go to all 3 threads about barbarian enhancements, Ravager, FB and Occult Slayer.
2.Read and compare only cores in every tree.
3.Come back here and tell me again that you gain 20 hp (30-10=20 "cause simple math is simple math") from activating Frenzy.

lol

This argument is ridiculous - please stop. thanks

[Qhualor]

my apologies to everyone I argued with. now that I have calmed down a bit I understand what people were saying. I took Scrabbler off from ignore. its just that I read the description wrong and assumed it meant you gain 30 hp per activation. I would like to continue this discussion civilly because I do care a lot about barbarians, want to see balanced improvements and love playing them. I swear I know what im talking about... most times

[Braegan]

Just to put this here if it's seen here more.

This is a fantastic idea! Do more of this and less of what Ravager Tree does.

Accelerated Metabolism: (2 AP) While raging you heal 2d6 hit points every 4 seconds. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power.

On an aside, things in the Barb spirit: Shrugging off Damage could be better represented, IMO.

Perhaps, more things like Action Boosts (DR) 20/40/60 (place holder numbers) would be more welcome to represent a Barbs ability to survive an encounter.

Or maybe more uses of Uncanny Dodge?

Maybe a capstone clickie where you keep fighting, even if past point of HP and when timer expires if you are neg HP you die, kind of like a Last Stand Moment.

Sorry it's late and I'm kind of rambling.

[Scrabbler]

In D&D, Barbarian is the character class with the fastest running speed (high level Monk is somewhat faster, except Monks don't gain speed from Haste).

For a long time DDO upheld the tradition of Barbarians being one of the fastest runners. But this year, both Fighters and Bards were given passive run speed improvements so they equal or exceed Barbarian speed.

Therefore, let's add a Barbarian Running Speed enhancement to one of these trees. Probably Frenzied Berserker fits the personality of a reckless runner. This enhancement might give them 1% per level, just like the Bard one, which would return Barbs to their previous relative position. Or to be more conservative it could give 1% per two class levels, giving a final speed equal to a Bard (minus Warchanter).


PS. I see that Frenzied Berserker already has the tree space filled up. No problem! Some existing or new enhancements can be shoved into multiselectors so they share the same square.

[FranOhmsford]

In D&D, Barbarian is the character class with the fastest running speed (high level Monk is somewhat faster, except Monks don't gain speed from Haste).

For a long time DDO upheld the tradition of Barbarians being one of the fastest runners. But this year, both Fighters and Bards were given passive run speed improvements so they equal or exceed Barbarian speed.

Therefore, let's add a Barbarian Running Speed enhancement to one of these trees. Probably Frenzied Berserker fits the personality of a reckless runner. This enhancement might give them 1% per level, just like the Bard one, which would return Barbs to their previous relative position. Or to be more conservative it could give 1% per two class levels, giving a final speed equal to a Bard (minus Warchanter).


PS. I see that Frenzied Berserker already has the tree space filled up. No problem! Some existing or new enhancements can be shoved into multiselectors so they share the same square.

DDO has maximums applied to run speed.

Unfortunately having different classes have different run speeds hurt the game more than helping it - The biggest problem was that Tanks who are supposed to be first into battle were now LAST into battle!
Clerics also couldn't keep up with faster characters!
Oh and Rogues were also unable to sneak as they had to get to the traps ahead of the Party!
These three things contributed greatly to the BYOH Self-Sufficiency mindset we have today!

There are Sprint Boost Enhancements in one of the proposed Barb Trees however {not sure which one right now} as there should be!

[Zerkul]

As per title.

I would never bring a Barbarian in party if I can bring a Paladin. They do more damage and have better survivability.

Barbarians should do more damage.

EDIT: I TRed into Paladin with last update.

[Scrabbler]

General Barbarian Tree feedback:

One problem with the new Barb trees is that they're not different enough. The changes are almost all fairly moderate tweaks: lowering cooldowns, removing penalties/limits, or scattering hitpoints, heal amp, and meleepower all over the place. Only 6 enhancements were added (half of them are healing), 1 merged into another and zero deleted. Aside from a Bond->Oath situation, no enhancement has been edited enough to need a new name.

It seems the new designers want to keep the approximate structure of the old trees. But the thing is that the old trees weren't good. They're not traditional and not beloved. There's not a lot of value to keeping them, aside from being able to start without staring at a blank page. It also should be emphasized these Barb trees weren't good trees that got left behind by changes to other game mechanics; they were bad trees from the start.

So what I suggest now is for the designers to go a little out of bounds, try some big or wild changes, add a weird new feature, shuffle things about, and see how it feels. Don't be afraid of not respecting the old design enough. Of course big changes might take too much time to reprogram, but you can at least think them through on paper.

[Cetus]

But this year, both Fighters and Bards were given passive run speed improvements so they equal or exceed Barbarian speed.

Fighter's were given run speed bonuses?

[depositbox]

Fighter's were given run speed bonuses?

In Stalwart tree

Swift Defense: Stalwart Defense increases your movement speed by 10%

[theRolf]

In D&D, Barbarian is the character class with the fastest running speed (high level Monk is somewhat faster, except Monks don't gain speed from Haste).

For a long time DDO upheld the tradition of Barbarians being one of the fastest runners. But this year, both Fighters and Bards were given passive run speed improvements so they equal or exceed Barbarian speed.

Therefore, let's add a Barbarian Running Speed enhancement to one of these trees. Probably Frenzied Berserker fits the personality of a reckless runner. This enhancement might give them 1% per level, just like the Bard one, which would return Barbs to their previous relative position. Or to be more conservative it could give 1% per two class levels, giving a final speed equal to a Bard (minus Warchanter).


PS. I see that Frenzied Berserker already has the tree space filled up. No problem! Some existing or new enhancements can be shoved into multiselectors so they share the same square.

Agreed, run speed is good.

[theRolf]

General Barbarian Tree feedback:

One problem with the new Barb trees is that they're not different enough. The changes are almost all fairly moderate tweaks: lowering cooldowns, removing penalties/limits, or scattering hitpoints, heal amp, and meleepower all over the place. Only 6 enhancements were added (half of them are healing), 1 merged into another and zero deleted. Aside from a Bond->Oath situation, no enhancement has been edited enough to need a new name.

It seems the new designers want to keep the approximate structure of the old trees. But the thing is that the old trees weren't good. They're not traditional and not beloved. There's not a lot of value to keeping them, aside from being able to start without staring at a blank page. It also should be emphasized these Barb trees weren't good trees that got left behind by changes to other game mechanics; they were bad trees from the start.

So what I suggest now is for the designers to go a little out of bounds, try some big or wild changes, add a weird new feature, shuffle things about, and see how it feels. Don't be afraid of not respecting the old design enough. Of course big changes might take too much time to reprogram, but you can at least think them through on paper.

Truth here. OS and maybe Ravager can be tweaked. FB is just bad design and fundamentally flawed for the game today.

[Erdrique]

I would have to agree with many in the post. The biggest problem I tend to have with my Frenzied Berserker is that hit points tend to drop rather quickly as he uses his special abilities. This is one of the reasons I tend to keep to epic normal quests with him (well, that and the fact that he is terribly undergeared...by digress). I don't understand the concept of using an ability that takes hits points away to activate but then grants you more upon its activation...just seems silly.

I do wish there was an different way to gather some type of vampirism ability or some other ability to generate self healing. One would think that once a barbarian rages, he would cause so much disarray and fear in his enemies, that he would feed off of that chaos. That "feeding" would give him more stamina and strength and there fore increase his hit points.

The capstone does look better, but I don't think I will take it with the 100 hit point cost. The healing amp is definitely nice but not sure that is what is really needed.

[Psiandron]

This is the first of these trees that I've looked at and I can't say that I'm particularly wowed.

As several people mentioned, barbarian DPS needs to be stupid, as it once was, in order for the class to attract many players. Even so, with the current paucity of healers in the game, I doubt that the class has a lot of future w/o an ability to keep itself up.

Distilled to it's essence, barbarians are a low armor class, low PRR/MRR, non-evasion class that damages itself and can't heal itself in any sort of sufficient manner. In a game with few real healers, a touch of DPS and some heal amp aren't likely to fix the problem.

Die Hard: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 1). You gain the Die Hard feat, and automatically stabilize when incapacitated.
This is total garbage. Enemies don't wander away when you're incapacitated. If you have their aggro, they will swing at you until you turn into a stone.

Completely the case. I have even had mobs follow my spirit around after I was dead until someone else manage to pull their aggro or they were killed.

Epic destiny abilities such as cacoon (particularly primal) should not be blocked by barbarian rage. The epic abilities should transcend this.

Of prime interest to me I suppose, is will a barbarian be able to use primal scream or will it remain unavailable to the class for which it was supposedly developed?






@Qhualor,

Bwahahahahahaha. Seriously dude I was rolling.

I know that you're not dumb, but that was an epic flat EEG moment you had there.

Props to those who persisted in reformulating it until a chord was finally struck and to you for owning up to it once you realized what had happened.

[FlaviusMaximus]

There was a DPS/Class poll in the forums a couple months ago and the majority of the respondents voted that Barbarians should be atop the DPS food chain.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-Pecking-Order
It seems that players, including myself, like to see a good amount of power coming from Barbarians.

I think all three Barbarian trees should do more DPS and the levels of healing amp and self-healing should be varied more based on how much DPS is added and already present. I also like the idea of one tree doing a lot more damage at the cost of any self healing to sort of follow DDO Barbarian tradition.

Something like this might work well:

The Frenzied Berserker tree gets a substantial DPS boost at the cost of any self healing other than additional healing amp, which could be scaled back a bit. Holy Sword is the new mark to beat. Frenzied Berserker needs a Tier 5 ability that at least equals it.

The Ravager tree stays as is in the proposal with a minor DPS boost.

The Occult Slayer tree gets a substantial DPS boost to where it is somewhere between Frenzied Berserker and Ravager and the self healing falls somewhere in between as well.