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  1. #281
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    If there were an "Endless Rage" feat given to barbarians at level 20, it would allow barbarians with the Ravager capstone to use that ability, BUT it would not increase the number of times that that ability could be used. IIRC, the devs were worried that "Visage of Terror" would be too powerful if they let barbarians regenerate rages.

  2. #282
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    Frenzy and Death Frenzy:
    It's ok. But seeing how Ravagers Pain Touch is affected by melee power I feel the bane damage to enemies from Frenzy and Death Frenzy should also scale with melee power.



    Blood Trail: (2 AP, Requires: Blood Tribute, Supreme Cleave) Supreme Cleave no longer has a hit point cost. You gain 2 Melee Power.

    Yay a meager 2 melee power. While Ravager and Occult Slayer give alot more melee power. About 5 melee power would be ok.



    Storm’s Eye: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 20). Activate: You gain +1 melee damage. --- This damage bonus gains one stack every six seconds, up to 25 stacks. This ends when you are below 50% health. Activation Cost: 100 Hit Points. Cooldown: 3 minutes. Passive: You gain +4 Constitution. You gain +150 hit points and +40 healing amplification. When Raging your melee attacks that roll a 20 do an extra 400 damage. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.



    Waste of AP imo, an extra 25 damage assuming you can keep it when fighting multiple mobs on EE that doesn't drop your HP past 50% in a few hits is not really worth it. And the extra 400 damage that scales with 100% melee power on a vorpal doesn't look that great as well especially in EE content. It doesn't make me want to go back playing a pure barb.



    Focus Wide: (2 AP, Requires: Mad Munitions) When you score a vorpal hit, you increase your chance of triggering weapon effects with glancing blows by +10% and gain +10% glancing blow damage for 12 seconds.

    Kinda missing something imo, maybe add 10 melee power when Focus Wide procs, or doublestrike. And perhaps changing the vorpal hit to a 19-20.



    Focused Wrath: (2/2 AP) While raging, increases the critical multiplier of all weapons you use by 1/2 when you roll a natural 19 or 20 that is a confirmed crit hit.

    Needs a tweek. How about for the first tier while raging, increases the critical multiplier of all weapons you use by +1 on all crits and have the second upgrade increase to an additional + 1 on a 19-20.



    Lash Out: (1/1/1 AP) Supreme Cleave has a 50%/75%/82% chance to cause bleeding to damaged enemies, inflicting up to 1/2/3 stacks. This can stack up to 5 times. Your Supreme Cleave also reduces the AC of enemies by 1/2/3 for six seconds. This stacks up to five times.

    Does anybody know how much the bleeding damage will actually tick for? And will it scale with melee power? Also why the reduction of AC to enemies? I have never met a barbarian that had trouble hitting a mob even on heroic or epic content.



    Cracking Attack: Melee Attack: Deals +1/+2/+3[W] extra damage. Damaging enemies reduces their AC by -1/-2/-3 for 20 seconds. ---(Activation Cost: 5 Hit Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds)

    Same thing I said about Lash Out about the reduction to AC to mobs.


    Body Blow: (1/1/1 AP) Damaging enemies with Cracking Attack reduces their Fortitude saving throws by 1/2/3 for 20 seconds.

    Very meager add on to an attack



    Wade In: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: Supreme Cleave) When you Supreme Cleave, you gain +1 Primal bonus to Attack --- per enemy damaged, up to 3/6/10 maximum. Lasts for 4 seconds.

    Again kinda pointless adding something that a barbarian shouldn't have problems doing. Hitting things. Imo change the +1 primal bonus to attack to one or more alternatives such as melee power/ doublestrike/ fort bypass would be a better fit and make the duration a tad longer.



    Multi-selector: (2 AP)

    Accelerated Metabolism: While raging you heal 2d6 hit points every 4 seconds. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power.

    Raging Blows: While raging your melee attacks gain +1[W] to damage.


    Accelerated Metabolism is ok I suppose. Not sure if increasing the melee power percentage on it would be necessary or not.

    Raging Blows is definitely missing something. Something that would make it worthwhile to take. Perhaps adding the passive from the capstone to it and doing something different to the passive in the capstone.



    Exhausting Blow: (1/1/1 AP) Melee Attack: Deals +2/+3/+4[W], 1d6/2d6/3d6 Strength, and 1d6/2d6/3d6 Dexterity damage. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)

    Decent in heroics not so good in epics because mobs regenerate stat damage too fast to make this worth taking into epics.



    Tantrum: (2 AP) Tactical Melee Cleave: Expend 25 hit points to activate this ability and attack enemies around you. This deals +5[W] damage and has a 50% to knock down each damage enemy briefly on a failed Fortitude save vs. 10 + Strength modifier + Barbarian Level. Abilities that trigger on Supreme Cleave also trigger on Tantrum. (Blood Trail, Wade In, Lash Out, Sundering Spin, Storm's Eye)


    The current cooldown on Tantrum is 45 seconds if I remember right which is too long for a cleave based attack while the tier 5 Paladin cleave is only 5 seconds long that's also +5[W] damage and also adds vulnerable to enemies hit by it. So what's the point in keeping the cooldown to 45 secs? I just don't see it. And will the fort save to knockdown be able to benefit from items that increase tactical feats? I say lower the duration to 6 seconds.
    Last edited by XxJFGxX; 10-29-2014 at 05:17 PM.

  3. #283
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    We are considering changes based on player feedback:


    ~ The final core of Frenzied berserker would lose the Rage regeneration. Instead it would gain, in addition to the passive abilities and Storm's Eye, the ability:

    "When Raging your melee attacks that roll a 20 do an extra 400 damage. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power."


    ~ The tier 5 Mutli-Selector would lose "The Perfect Rage" and gain the following as an alternate choice to Accelerated Metabolism.

    "Raging Blows: While raging you gain +1[W] damage."

    Sev~
    After putting a lot more thought into this, I'm in the camp that should have rage regeneration. It should be a tier 5 enhancement ML 12 barbarian, not character. Or in one of the capstones. They should regenerate once every 5 minutes minimum.

    Reason being is that, how can you put a limit to a barbs anger? They can get angry at any moment for any reason. In PnP they have a limit for balance reasons, but in DDO, a barb needs to rage or lose out on a lot of DPS. Obvious differences from PnP and DDO is that a barb in the game practically needs to stay raged for the entirety of the quest. There shouldn't be a limit to how often a barb can rage for. Its almost like rage should be a toggle, but that's just going too far.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  4. #284
    Community Member Axeyu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Reason being is that, how can you put a limit to a barbs anger? They can get angry at any moment for any reason. In PnP they have a limit for balance reasons, but in DDO, a barb needs to rage or lose out on a lot of DPS. Obvious differences from PnP and DDO is that a barb in the game practically needs to stay raged for the entirety of the quest. There shouldn't be a limit to how often a barb can rage for. Its almost like rage should be a toggle, but that's just going too far.
    It makes perfect sense to me, outside of balance reasons. Rage is a state of mind, the body still has it limits.

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axeyu View Post
    It makes perfect sense to me, outside of balance reasons. Rage is a state of mind, the body still has it limits.
    Does make sense, perhaps make it unlimited uses but have a stacking wisdom damage each time its used, which can only be reset on resting at a shrine (similiar to the con damage from Blood Tribute) so its still limited, but at higher levels where you'll need it longer you'll be able use it more by wearing wisdom gear.

  6. #286
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axeyu View Post
    It makes perfect sense to me, outside of balance reasons. Rage is a state of mind, the body still has it limits.
    A barbarian is fatigued when rage expires until level 17 when he gets Tireless Rage.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  7. #287
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    Cleaves and +[W] are so favorable to two handed weapons that it's probably okay if the other styles catch up a bit with the vorpal ability.

    Sev~
    uhm, the barb stil falls behind in damage to the paladin and bard......

    i'm, not sure if the dev's understand what the scale of things are......
    so to avoid sounding like a broken record i made a simple comparison:

    there comes a time the paladin needs real dps added to the party, when he is forced to tell the barb:
    i ask you... no, i order you help us, in this dire time of need.


    this is the power difference we expect from a barb, esp a FB vs a bard or paladin:


    but instead you make the barb look like this yellow clad guy:



    i hope this gets the message across
    Last edited by lyrecono; 10-29-2014 at 04:31 PM.

  8. #288
    Community Member Axeyu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    A barbarian is fatigued when rage expires until level 17 when he gets Tireless Rage.
    Not being fatigued =/= being enraged.

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    i hope this gets the message across
    I really can't tell if he's supposed to be a Chevy or a Volkswagen.

  10. #290
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    volkswagen, michael bay can suck on an exhaust pipe for all i care, it's so sad to see that a movie franchise called transformers features them so little and still gets blown out of the water by a non related video game in action, emotion, acting, sound etc

    i wonder if the dev's actualy played Fall of cybertron and got the refrence?

  11. #291
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    How about we stick to the topic at hand.

  12. #292
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    that was on topic, but since the dev's don't seem to understand that the barb is lagging behind a paladin and a bard in terms of dps. since words weren't getting us their i thought big pictures might.
    to be honnest:
    after being vocal for a whille and being ignored (as many others were here) during the U19 lam period i was suprised, no downright pumped to see what they had in store for the barbarian.
    After all the good work and dps increase on what in pnp and ddo have been known as the tank and bufbot classes i couldn't wait to see what was in store for barbarians.
    looks like most fun is to be had on heroics for the poor old barb, still no propper EE type of dps
    kinda sad for a class that is supposed to be for melee what sorcerer is for arcane classes, raw damage output still can't do the only thing it was designed for in the first place
    even a paladin can fall back to defences, healing, diplomacie, umd etc when his dps isn't needed/working.
    even a bard can fall back to spelcasting, healing, buffing, crowdcontrolling, a plethora of skills, a good defence when his dps fails
    The barbarian has nothing to fall back on when his dps wil fail

  13. #293
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    that was on topic, but since the dev's don't seem to understand that the barb is lagging behind a paladin and a bard in terms of dps. since words weren't getting us their i thought big pictures might.
    to be honnest:
    after being vocal for a whille and being ignored (as many others were here) during the U19 lam period i was suprised, no downright pumped to see what they had in store for the barbarian.
    After all the good work and dps increase on what in pnp and ddo have been known as the tank and bufbot classes i couldn't wait to see what was in store for barbarians.
    looks like most fun is to be had on heroics for the poor old barb, still no propper EE type of dps
    kinda sad for a class that is supposed to be for melee what sorcerer is for arcane classes, raw damage output still can't do the only thing it was designed for in the first place
    even a paladin can fall back to defences, healing, diplomacie, umd etc when his dps isn't needed/working.
    even a bard can fall back to spelcasting, healing, buffing, crowdcontrolling, a plethora of skills, a good defence when his dps fails
    The barbarian has nothing to fall back on when his dps wil fail
    ^This^

    I suspect the Devs feel painted into the corner a bit. They took two of the worst Melee DPS classes & made them the best, instead of just good while also amplifying what they already did well.

    • Pre-pass, Bards were highly versatile but were only moderately survivable and on the low end of DPS. Post-pass they're still highly versatile, have good survivability and great DPS.

    • Pre-pass, Paladins had strong defense (mitigation + spells) and good self heals but poor DPS. Post-pass they have still have good self heals, and awesome defense (mitigation + spells) + potentially the highest (noncaster) DPS in the game.

    • So now what can they do with Barbarians? They can't give them much versatility (nor should they). They can't give them self healing comparable to a Bard or Paladin (nor should they). They don't seem inclined to givie them much stronger mitigation though they should, as total defense would still be inferior to a Fighter's and Paladins (as it should be), nor do they seem inclined to give them "the best defense is a good offense" level of DPS superiority (but that's how it should be); just having "an edge in AoE DPS" is totally, utterly insufficient.

    Let me repeat that part, for the Dev's benefit. When it comes to Barbarians: "The best defense is a good offense." That notion has been at the core of Barbarian functionality for as long as Dungeons and Dragons has had a Barbarian Class. There is no good reason for it not to be true in Dungeons & Dragons Online. Make it so.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 10-29-2014 at 08:23 PM.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  14. #294
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    someone is notecing, awesome, thanks!



    edit:

    @ `sev, let barbarians do what they were created for, doing massive amounts of damage and with massive i mean massive for EE.
    Last edited by lyrecono; 10-29-2014 at 08:43 PM.

  15. #295
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    I posted a few things that could make the FB reliable if you care to look and offer feedback because the more we speak out about it the more likely they will do something about it. Thank you.

  16. #296
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxJFGxX View Post
    Frenzy and Death Frenzy:
    It's ok. But seeing how Ravagers Pain Touch is affected by melee power I feel the bane damage to enemies from Frenzy and Death Frenzy should also scale with melee power.



    Blood Trail: (2 AP, Requires: Blood Tribute, Supreme Cleave) Supreme Cleave no longer has a hit point cost. You gain 2 Melee Power.

    Yay a meager 2 melee power. While Ravager and Occult Slayer give alot more melee power. About 5 melee power would be ok.



    Storm’s Eye: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 20). Activate: You gain +1 melee damage. --- This damage bonus gains one stack every six seconds, up to 25 stacks. This ends when you are below 50% health. Activation Cost: 100 Hit Points. Cooldown: 3 minutes. Passive: You gain +4 Constitution. You gain +150 hit points and +40 healing amplification. When Raging your melee attacks that roll a 20 do an extra 400 damage. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.



    Waste of AP imo, an extra 25 damage assuming you can keep it when fighting multiple mobs on EE that doesn't drop your HP past 50% in a few hits is not really worth it. And the extra 400 damage that scales with 100% melee power on a vorpal doesn't look that great as well especially in EE content. It doesn't make me want to go back playing a pure barb.



    Focus Wide: (2 AP, Requires: Mad Munitions) When you score a vorpal hit, you increase your chance of triggering weapon effects with glancing blows by +10% and gain +10% glancing blow damage for 12 seconds.

    Kinda missing something imo, maybe add 10 melee power when Focus Wide procs, or doublestrike. And perhaps changing the vorpal hit to a 19-20.



    Focused Wrath: (2/2 AP) While raging, increases the critical multiplier of all weapons you use by 1/2 when you roll a natural 19 or 20 that is a confirmed crit hit.

    Needs a tweek. How about for the first tier while raging, increases the critical multiplier of all weapons you use by +1 on all crits and have the second upgrade increase to an additional + 1 on a 19-20.



    Lash Out: (1/1/1 AP) Supreme Cleave has a 50%/75%/82% chance to cause bleeding to damaged enemies, inflicting up to 1/2/3 stacks. This can stack up to 5 times. Your Supreme Cleave also reduces the AC of enemies by 1/2/3 for six seconds. This stacks up to five times.

    Does anybody know how much the bleeding damage will actually tick for? And will it scale with melee power? Also why the reduction of AC to enemies? I have never met a barbarian that had trouble hitting a mob even on heroic or epic content.



    Cracking Attack: Melee Attack: Deals +1/+2/+3[W] extra damage. Damaging enemies reduces their AC by -1/-2/-3 for 20 seconds. ---(Activation Cost: 5 Hit Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds)

    Same thing I said about Lash Out about the reduction to AC to mobs.


    Body Blow: (1/1/1 AP) Damaging enemies with Cracking Attack reduces their Fortitude saving throws by 1/2/3 for 20 seconds.

    Very meager add on to an attack



    Wade In: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: Supreme Cleave) When you Supreme Cleave, you gain +1 Primal bonus to Attack --- per enemy damaged, up to 3/6/10 maximum. Lasts for 4 seconds.

    Again kinda pointless adding something that a barbarian shouldn't have problems doing. Hitting things. Imo change the +1 primal bonus to attack to one or more alternatives such as melee power/ doublestrike/ fort bypass would be a better fit and make the duration a tad longer.



    Multi-selector: (2 AP)

    Accelerated Metabolism: While raging you heal 2d6 hit points every 4 seconds. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power.

    Raging Blows: While raging your melee attacks gain +1[W] to damage.


    Accelerated Metabolism is ok I suppose. Not sure if increasing the melee power percentage on it would be necessary or not.

    Raging Blows is definitely missing something. Something that would make it worthwhile to take. Perhaps adding the passive from the capstone to it and doing something different to the passive in the capstone.



    Exhausting Blow: (1/1/1 AP) Melee Attack: Deals +2/+3/+4[W], 1d6/2d6/3d6 Strength, and 1d6/2d6/3d6 Dexterity damage. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)

    Decent in heroics not so good in epics because mobs regenerate stat damage too fast to make this worth taking into epics.



    Tantrum: (2 AP) Tactical Melee Cleave: Expend 25 hit points to activate this ability and attack enemies around you. This deals +5[W] damage and has a 50% to knock down each damage enemy briefly on a failed Fortitude save vs. 10 + Strength modifier + Barbarian Level. Abilities that trigger on Supreme Cleave also trigger on Tantrum. (Blood Trail, Wade In, Lash Out, Sundering Spin, Storm's Eye)


    The current cooldown on Tantrum is 45 seconds if I remember right which is too long for a cleave based attack while the tier 5 Paladin cleave is only 5 seconds long that's also +5[W] damage and also adds vulnerable to enemies hit by it. So what's the point in keeping the cooldown to 45 secs? I just don't see it. And will the fort save to knockdown be able to benefit from items that increase tactical feats? I say lower the duration to 6 seconds.
    qft

    the FB barbarian tree needs a lot of work dev's, esp in the dps department
    whille bard and paly scale well in epics, the barb doesn't, mostly because he can't do what he is designed for

  17. #297
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    Firstly thank you for the much needed revision of the Barbarian class. Really like the work going on here.

    Secondly I have two suggestions that I think would really make a big difference to the class while maintaining the flavour.

    1) As has been mentioned before the Barb needs top tier DPS and reduced ability for them to destroy themselves in combat, so what about....

    a) Scale the damage from vicious with melee power significantly - say 200% to 400%
    b) have the barbarian damage reduction apply to vicious inflicted self damage.

    2) Introduce a PRR boost based on the % hitpoints damaged while raging so that as the barbarian gets damaged he becomes tougher and tougher to kill. Something like +50PRR at 50% health +100PRR at 25% health +200PRR at 10% health and +400PRR at 5% health.

    this would give the barbarian more survivability and lessen the frustration of constantly being low on HP, more time for any helpfully inclined healer to drop a helpful heal, less reliance on non flaviour Hamp and increased usefulness of easy to purchase low healing pots, as well as great synergy with the half orc cores.

    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post

    Blood Tribute: (1/1/1 AP) Gain +50/+100/+150 Temporary Health for one minute. This scales with 400% Melee Power. You have a stacking -1 penalty to constitution until you rest or die. (Cooldown: 3 seconds)
    Really like this, gives an alternative method of prolonging the HP pool of the Barb without healing


    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post

    Multi-selector: (2 AP)

    Accelerated Metabolism: While raging you heal 2d6 hit points every 4 seconds. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power.

    Raging Blows: While raging your melee attacks gain +1[W] to damage.
    Again love the trickle healing, If used in conjuction with my suggestions above could really make playing a barbarian an enjoyable build when played skillfully.

    Cheers for listening.

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Golden View Post
    Firstly thank you for the much needed revision of the Barbarian class. Really like the work going on here.

    Secondly I have two suggestions that I think would really make a big difference to the class while maintaining the flavour.

    1) As has been mentioned before the Barb needs top tier DPS and reduced ability for them to destroy themselves in combat, so what about....

    a) Scale the damage from vicious with melee power significantly - say 200% to 400%
    b) have the barbarian damage reduction apply to vicious inflicted self damage.

    2) Introduce a PRR boost based on the % hitpoints damaged while raging so that as the barbarian gets damaged he becomes tougher and tougher to kill. Something like +50PRR at 50% health +100PRR at 25% health +200PRR at 10% health and +400PRR at 5% health.

    this would give the barbarian more survivability and lessen the frustration of constantly being low on HP, more time for any helpfully inclined healer to drop a helpful heal, less reliance on non flaviour Hamp and increased usefulness of easy to purchase low healing pots, as well as great synergy with the half orc cores.
    /signed

  19. #299
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Golden View Post
    Firstly thank you for the much needed revision of the Barbarian class. Really like the work going on here.

    Secondly I have two suggestions that I think would really make a big difference to the class while maintaining the flavour.

    1) As has been mentioned before the Barb needs top tier DPS and reduced ability for them to destroy themselves in combat, so what about....

    a) Scale the damage from vicious with melee power significantly - say 200% to 400%
    b) have the barbarian damage reduction apply to vicious inflicted self damage.

    2) Introduce a PRR boost based on the % hitpoints damaged while raging so that as the barbarian gets damaged he becomes tougher and tougher to kill. Something like +50PRR at 50% health +100PRR at 25% health +200PRR at 10% health and +400PRR at 5% health.

    this would give the barbarian more survivability and lessen the frustration of constantly being low on HP, more time for any helpfully inclined healer to drop a helpful heal, less reliance on non flaviour Hamp and increased usefulness of easy to purchase low healing pots, as well as great synergy with the half orc cores.



    Really like this, gives an alternative method of prolonging the HP pool of the Barb without healing




    Again love the trickle healing, If used in conjuction with my suggestions above could really make playing a barbarian an enjoyable build when played skillfully.

    Cheers for listening.
    1)a 400% melee power over such a smal amount of damage is peanuts, a barb needs the same boost a bard or palading got, i dare even argue he should get more, due to lack of any other abileties (as stated in a earlier post of mine)
    1)b the vicious damage realy isn't the problem for a barb, the 800 damage per blow is. the dev's won't reduce the damage of vicious either due to the flavor.

    2) they fudged the prr progression, a barb can manage 100 prr already, 500prr total at 5% health means nothing.
    on EE dropping below 50% is a bad idea thats why the half orc enhancements that give str below a certain amount of hp have such a bad rep
    noone wants to run around with half hitpoints, everyboddy complained about the horrible decision to implement it.
    if somone wants to spend enh points on broken mechanics be my guest, just put it far away from usefull stuf and core abileties

  20. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    1)a 400% melee power over such a smal amount of damage is peanuts, a barb needs the same boost a bard or palading got, i dare even argue he should get more, due to lack of any other abileties (as stated in a earlier post of mine)
    1)b the vicious damage realy isn't the problem for a barb, the 800 damage per blow is. the dev's won't reduce the damage of vicious either due to the flavor.

    2) they fudged the prr progression, a barb can manage 100 prr already, 500prr total at 5% health means nothing.
    on EE dropping below 50% is a bad idea thats why the half orc enhancements that give str below a certain amount of hp have such a bad rep
    noone wants to run around with half hitpoints, everyboddy complained about the horrible decision to implement it.
    if somone wants to spend enh points on broken mechanics be my guest, just put it far away from usefull stuf and core abileties
    The devs actually said that they would look into reducing vicious damage by barbs innate DR.

    barbarians have defensive abilities too, and they're getting more in the proposed changes. They are getting a few abilities that grant temporary HP (which while not ideal since it does get chipped away easily) is still something when its as high as they can get (chance on hit for 150 (scales with 100%mp) (similiar to lich form, though thats only 30hp), and a clicky for 150 (scales with 400%MP)) Plus they are getting onhit/kill healing (or HOT while raged). and will be getting alot more healamp then paladins (nearly 100% more then paladins even after hamp change), which will allow their self healing to be more effective, not to mention their innate high HP, (which while its possible for defenders to get close to, they're giving up DPS to do so) and there is nothing stopping a barbarian from wearing heavy armor. (sure it costs a feat, but it also costs a bladeforge a feat for any armor). nont to mention Barbarians get improved uncanny dodge (a 50% dodge clicky)

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