Barbarian - Frenzied Berserker Changes

[lyrecono]

at ~sev

i know this is a huge wall of text but please take the time to read it

When i came of 3 fighter lives and tr-ed into my first barbarian(in ddo) oh so many years ago i was pleased with all the dps they could generate, sure their defences were pretty bad but their dps made sure the enemy died before he could take to much damage.
Sure, past lv 16 any caster easely out killed him (dc based) and no healer wanted me in the party, implosion cost less sp then healing me.
i came back to barbarian after 20 odd lives with game experience, the half orc race, a stack of gear, tomes and 2 inventory pages filled with silver flame pots.
raidmembers enjoyed having me onboard, even choosing me over the warforged tank during VoD and the optional in ToD, often i heard that heals were centred on me, they trusted me to hold agro by brute dps and being able to survive long enough for the next mass cure/heal to arive.
I enjoyed the barb for it's dps, the abilety to take something out before it took my barb out.

after the level cap went up to 25 (Update14) healers in the party hinted that i was taking too much damage, the same healers i trusted with my life in the hardest pre u14 content. melee's were having a hard time in general though, atleast a barb still brought dps to the table, something a bard or paladin simply didn't match (unless vs undead). A good barb was still a rational trade of to have in the party. I saw many sub par and moderate build barbs fall of, no longer were they played
updates 15 and 16 gave us more and more enemy damage in EE, i saw myself play eh instead of EE, not that i couldn't do it anymore but out of sheer boredom, killing mobs and bosses just took too long and healers started complaing instead of hinting. i saw a decrease in people wiling to play a healer in general (not just with me :P) i also see an increase in ranged toons
Update 17, mobs began hitting harder and harder (EE giants in tor for example), playing of the barbs strength, 2 handed fighting was becomming harder , no longer could you be surounded by mobs and mass cleave them
without risking a sured death.
Update 19 was the final drop for my barb, for a few reasons:
1, The damage output of mobs was of the scale, opening a door in wheloon with 4 assasins swinging their chain........ding
2, Mob hp, too much hp meant that the advantage of a barb is negated, you can't kill mobs fast enough anymore.
3, The enhancement pass, not only was it too weak on it's ownit was too weak for the content it was made for. It also fell behind to other classes, cetus builds. monchkers, shiradi builds, all way more able to handle EE content then a barb.

Conclusion:
The trade of is gone, no longer was my barb's position in an EE party justified. and this was a end game barb, rich on ED's, pastlives, gear, etc one of the few still remaing on the server, i could no longer support my friends in ddo. I had no other option, i had to stop playing him as a barb..... Cetus-esque builds it was, for 36 pastlives and 12 iconic lives i grinded and grinded, never been able to make a decent barb

then a ray of hope apeared
Sev came around, yes you!
bards became amazingly powerfull, high melee survivability, spelcasting, healing, huge dps, crowd control, assuming you build them correctly and had the gear to go allong with it.
Paladins got boosted too, amazing dps, high allround survivability
ok, granted, the prr/mrr change was pretty nice for heavy armor users though due to the curve a shield was barrely needed, noboddy wants to gimp their dps for a 4% reduction in incomming damage.
all&all verry nice changes. i wasn't even angry for having bards and paladins more dps and survivability then a barb, because i knew you would turn to barbarians soon enough.
But intead you have seemed to turn on barbs:
again, granted: having more hp and healing amp on a barb is something he could use a lot, even if people claim it doesn't make sence on a barb, you can always declaire them to be magical ritual scaring done by the shaman(flavor text).

but what i miss here is you adressing the big elephant in the room, the dps: barbarians and especialy Frenzied berzerkers need a lot more dps to cope with the insane amount of hp the dev's have put on mobs.
A reason for party to have a barb in the party once again.
a reason to make that trade of worth it again.

As for the capstone:
Storm’s Eye: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 20). Activate: You gain +1 melee damage. --- This damage bonus gains one stack every six seconds, up to 25 stacks. This ends when you are below 50% health. Activation Cost: 100 Hit Points. Cooldown: 3 minutes. Passive: You gain +4 Constitution. You gain +150 hit points and +40 healing amplification.
why should i bother with a feature that doesn't exist? it blinks out every 10 seconds on EE, there is too much mob dps. The constitution bonus might help out thosse dwarven spell ressistance builds though.
why should i use this "capstone" instead of 2 levels of fighter for the 2 feats and the plate mail prof (and all the prr/mrr) that came from that. since the formula wasn't adapted not only do fighters and paladins have reasons to just ignore the use of a shield, multiclassing into a fighter can simply give you 100+ prr without a shred of effort just by donning a platemail 6+24bab+45 plate and a +30 sheltering item.

in short:
ways to survive
Moar!!!!! DpS!!!!!
please.........

[Violith]

ways to survive = healing. without it... barbs are going to be left behind no matter what. sure there are a select few 'healers' out there who like to heal, but I doubt anyone actually likes to babysit a character.

the whole 'DPS before your killed' works... but without some type of healing, whether its vampirism or temp hp on hit, or a HOT when your rage wears out. Then that'd only last a battle or two, which is basically what happened in pnp without a healer, they could take out lots of foes, but afterwards were basically useless until tehy were healed. I would like to see some PRR/MRR addition to make them more survivable, but even that wouldnt be good without boosting their own self survival.

as for increasing DPS yet dont want self healing, I believe they mentioned having the frenzies be boosted by MP, or atleast that they'd talk to the dev team about it. and I dont see how they can increase DPS anymore apart from having a no save instant kill or a core granted Mortal fear effect, that would effect any enemy.

at a cursory glance, they're sitting on a like a x9-X10 crit mod (x3 axe + x1 Overwhelming crit + x2 from LD (devastating crit and headsman) + x1 (death frenzy) + x2 (Focused Wrath), +x1 (Oath of Retribution). x3 of which are from frenzy barbarians, a x1 from occult slayer. so a possibility of x3-x4 just for barbarians, most classes only have a x1 in their enhancements, and some builds dont even have a x4 total with buffs. and that along wiht their 3-10W attacks, not to mention all the small stacks of damage increases and such throughout the trees, how do you see increasing dps anymore with having them survive, without allowing them to self heal, except by making them basically 1hit things from lvl1-30?

[Xianio]

ways to survive = healing. without it... barbs are going to be left behind no matter what. sure there are a select few 'healers' out there who like to heal, but I doubt anyone actually likes to babysit a character.

I think this captures the biggest problem with these updated enhancements, and the Frenzied Berserker in particular.

I like this tree, all things considered. I think there is an enormous amount of killing potential in this tree and with a heavy investment, this would make barbs the highest melee DPS toon. However, you give up critical defenses to accomplish this that nothing but a dedicated healer can potentially mitigate for.

The reason for this is that Ravager's healing is basically the only new healing effect that could be effective in high difficulty/level content. Further, a barbarians low saves make the Occult Slayers Mind Over Magic capstone incredibly important if you ever wish to solo high level content.

So what's to be done? Go Frenzied and find a healbot or go Occult/Ravager and be self-sufficient.

This seems like a decent trade-off situation, but it's really not. Why? Because so much DPS is lost when you cannot invest in the Frenzied tree. While the other trees have decent offenses, they're not stronger than the two top-dogs, Bard's and Paladins. This, in my mind, makes the Barb still a subpar choice in nearly all situations.

My suggestion:

Move the healing effects to Tier 4 and buff Occult's/Frenzied's healing potential (not as high as Ravagers, which likely needs to be toned down). While adjustments may need to be made to make the healing less synergistic, this would allow barbs to spread their points out better.

As a final aside -- while my suggestion is a big buff, it's too a class that suffers huge natural penalties. No spellcasting, no access to huge boosts to saves (e.g. paladin), no access monk (e.g. concealment, movement speed, evasion etc). I don't think it would break the class that already has a huge number of built-in deficits.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Not sure of exact numbers, but that fast metabolism scaling with melee power, combined with the innate healing amp, means it could end up being close to the equivalent of constantly sitting in a radiant servant aura or having the bard sustaining song running.. particularly if you're blitzing with the big melee power boost from that. Not too shabby but potentially a little too good.

But then, i'm busy theorycrafting a fighter/barb with vanguard, stalwart defender & FB or ravager build that doesn't even bother with rage, and with the durability from that, self-healing cocoon & now the barbarian inherent healing stuff too, that could make for a character with a great mix of durability vs. physical & magical damage, dps, tactical DCs, clicky-based healing & passive healing... so leaving them as proposed would be very nice, thank you so much

[jalont]

As a final aside -- while my suggestion is a big buff, it's too a class that suffers huge natural penalties. No spellcasting, no access to huge boosts to saves (e.g. paladin), no access monk (e.g. concealment, movement speed, evasion etc). I don't think it would break the class that already has a huge number of built-in deficits.

The simplest, easiest to balance thing to do is to decouple spell casting from rage. If barbs could act like every other class in the game and receive healing in the same exact way, everything else would be easier to balance. It would have the same healing capabilities as a fighter. Except fighters have much better defensive potential, so they have a bit less dps. So you crank up the dps option on barb. The hard one now is pally, since they have such high dps, defenses and healing capabilities. They don't have any of the three possible downsides. So.. we have to look at that some.

[Scrabbler]

Concise Consolidated feedback (new Frenzied Berserker)

I'll evaluate every enhancement, trying to give one line of critique and then one line of suggestion. Focusing more on the problems, so a blank means it's at least "fine".

Cores in general:
Bad that the most specific effects are outweighed by hp + healamp (lacking choice variety).
Bad that the hp + healamp are same for all Barb trees.
Sug- Either move hp + healamp into Barb levels, or remove hp+healamp from some trees (for example, OS could get Dodge, Max Dex, Reflex, and Reflex%Reduce instead, lowering need to be healed)



cores
Die Hard: Low low value, but it's OK for core1 to be weak.
Sug- Revamp the negative hp incap system for all players (so standing back up isn't as easy as getting back to pos hp).

Toughness: It's a laugh now that all Barb trees have hp in core3.

Frenzy:
Sug- Vicious self-damage shouldn't use Dungeon Scaling. (Maybe lower the dmg to be permanently the scaled-down version).

Death Frenzy: Description is wrong / weird text.
Sug- Fix description to mention 19-20 limit on crit bonus.

Storm's Eye: Way too easy to maintain in easy/controlled conditions, way to hard in tough/dangerous content.
Sug- Change to be more like an Action Boost, with duration of 40-60 seconds (a better version of Ranger's Growing Storm). Stack only grows if you attacked within that 6 sec. If above 50% hp, each stack gives +2 damage +1 heal amp +1 incoming physical damage. If below, +1 PRR +1 heal amp +1 Fortification.

t1
Extra Rage:

Cracking Attack: By itself, too weak to be worth 5 hp (almost too weak to be worth time clicking button)
Sug- Debuff lasts 60 sec, debuff reduces both AC and Fortifiction.

Die Harder:
Sug- Ask me sometime about how to revamp negative hp incap

Power Rage: I actually liked the AC penalty, which was increasingly irrelevant. But whatever, delete it for simplicity if you want.

Athletics:

t2
Angry Arms:

Body Blow: -3 Fort debuff is almost laughably weak.
Sug- Also, your Cracking Attack adds Consitution to hit/damage (on top of regular stat)

Blood Tribute: Pretty appealing now, kinda!
Sug- I might prefer the scaling to be with level, instead of Meleepower.

Extra Action Boost:
Sprint Boost:

t4
Mad Munitions: It'd be nice if there was a small additional bonus, so it's non-identical with a lower-tier enhancement.

Blood Trail: Everyone likes meleepower. Honestly, the Supreme Cleave cost was barely noticeable except for super-low level. (And for the sound effect)

Supreme Cleave: What to say, its old and famous.

Str/Con: Actually a little unfair to OS that the other 2 trees get Str.

t4
Crazy Strike: Good enough, I guess.
Sug- The duration is +6 on crit and +18 on vorp.

Exhausting Blow: Semi-short cooldown is unfun. Same epic problems as Ravager Cruel Cut.
Sug- Add a multiselector option to instead get a passive 3d2 str/dex damage on every vorp.
Historic note: Can you believe Exhausting Blow used to cost 1 Rage per use?!?

Wade In: +attack isn't worthless, but getting it for this small amount and duration sure is.
Sug- Change cost to flat 1 AP and duration 15. Besides +attack, also gain Fortification bypass.

t5
Focus Wide:
Focused Wrath:

Lash Out: From what I remember, the bleed damage was trivial.
Sug- Bleed damage scales with level and adds str mod.

Accelerated Metabolism: Problems with Barb healing were already covered. This is like a free Heal Scroll every minute, without needing to put it in your hand or even know how to read.
Sug- No passive healing, no meleepower mult. You gain +50 healamp for potions, potions give you HOT for 20 sec, and you can click this icon to spend a Rage for 10*level healing and 45 seconds of HOT.

Tantrum:
Sug- I think the cooldown is fairly long. It should stay long.

[Violith]

Not sure of exact numbers, but that fast metabolism scaling with melee power, combined with the innate healing amp, means it could end up being close to the equivalent of constantly sitting in a radiant servant aura or having the bard sustaining song running.. particularly if you're blitzing with the big melee power boost from that. Not too shabby but potentially a little too good.

But then, i'm busy theorycrafting a fighter/barb with vanguard, stalwart defender & FB or ravager build that doesn't even bother with rage, and with the durability from that, self-healing cocoon & now the barbarian inherent healing stuff too, that could make for a character with a great mix of durability vs. physical & magical damage, dps, tactical DCs, clicky-based healing & passive healing... so leaving them as proposed would be very nice, thank you so much

Accelerated Metabolism: (2 AP) While raging you heal 2d6 hit points every 4 seconds. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power.

2d6 with 400% healing (basically as much cores as you can get and all items in the propsed hamp changel) is still only 8d6 (48) every 4 seconds while raged. Melee power, if you build straight for that may be able to get to about 130MP, so 62hp, every 4 seconds. at end game. Despite how that seems 'too good'. when things hit for over 100 a swing, (not talking about EC/EN, and even EH for most quests dont hit that hard, but thats more about quest Design then class ability, as anyone can solo EH even on flavor builds) and swing more often then every 4 seconds, plus as a AOE DPS, you'll most likely have multiple enemies attacking at the same time, You'll still be killed if your not careful

plus, its while raging, So defender stances dont work and neither does spellcasting (not sure about cocoon, but most SLA's dont work while raged).

not sure if swashbuckling is included in defensive stances,.. so you might be able to go swashbuckler, but you'd be forced to use a single weapon, thus forgoing the .5 extra str dmg, and +5dmg from PA, which on a barb could be alot of dmg lost. and then you'd be forced into light armor (less PRR/MRR),

and vanguard,... not sure about that one either since I've never tried a S&B bard, .... barbs always seemed more of a twohander type to me.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Accelerated Metabolism: (2 AP) While raging you heal 2d6 hit points every 4 seconds. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power.

2d6 with 400% healing (basically as much cores as you can get and all items in the propsed hamp changel) is still only 8d6 (48) every 4 seconds while raged. Melee power, if you build straight for that may be able to get to about 130MP, so 62hp, every 4 seconds. at end game. Despite how that seems 'too good'. when things hit for over 100 a swing, (not talking about EC/EN, and even EH for most quests dont hit that hard, but thats more about quest Design then class ability, as anyone can solo EH even on flavor builds) and swing more often then every 4 seconds, plus as a AOE DPS, you'll most likely have multiple enemies attacking at the same time, You'll still be killed if your not careful

plus, its while raging, So defender stances dont work and neither does spellcasting (not sure about cocoon, but most SLA's dont work while raged).

not sure if swashbuckling is included in defensive stances,.. so you might be able to go swashbuckler, but you'd be forced to use a single weapon, thus forgoing the .5 extra str dmg, and +5dmg from PA, which on a barb could be alot of dmg lost. and then you'd be forced into light armor (less PRR/MRR),

and vanguard,... not sure about that one either since I've never tried a S&B bard, .... barbs always seemed more of a twohander type to me.

Ahh ok didnt notice the while raging part Was at work and multi-tasking, that's a bit more balanced then, and means my own vanguard barb will go ravager instead.

[theRolf]

ways to survive = healing. without it... barbs are going to be left behind no matter what. sure there are a select few 'healers' out there who like to heal, but I doubt anyone actually likes to babysit a character.
?

Yep. And if it happens as you say then peeps who are paying attention with the hope that barbs will once again be playable will come back. Fact and prediction.

[Rull]

Storm's Eye:
I really like it the way it is, but I seem to be one of the few.

One huge improvement would be a visual one. I would change it so that your HP bar becomes just the top half of the bar so that you and your healers will try to keep you above it.

What I mean is this:

Currently, Barb with 1500 HP goes into storm. At some point he takes 900 damage and drops below 50%. Storm is over and he's at 600 HP.

An IMO better way would be, Barb with 1500 HP goes into storm, so display shows just 750 HP. Say now he takes 900 damage, he would drop to -150 but storm instantly evaporates so he's at 600HP and the storm is over.
(The proper way to implement this seems to be to increase his unconsious range by that 750 HP, so that he isn't actually dead in the meantime. Death Pact-like coding doesn't seem to work well)

This is functionally equivalent, but the way you display information is very important and 'giving up defense' in order to gain offense fits thematically better than 'chickening out when below 50%'.

Maybe losing the storm should be at 35% instead of 50%
in other words: when such a berserker goes into the storm, his max HP shouldn't be halved but 65%, leaving him at 975 HP out of 1500HP.



edit: ... which is exactly the same idea as what scrabbler proposed which I missed somehow

[Severlin]

A few initial changes based on players feedback:

~ The capstone core ability for Frenzied Berserker will also regenerate 1 charge of Rage every 120 seconds.

~ The tier 5 ability Accelerated Metabolism will be a multi-selector. The player can choose the healing ability or another ability to do more damage. Here's what we are thinking:

The Perfect Rage: Each vorpal melee hit you deliver does additional damage equal to your Barbarian level x 20. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.


Sev~

[FestusHood]

The Perfect Rage: Each vorpal melee hit you deliver does additional damage equal to your Barbarian level x 20. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.


Sev~

That would be...a lot. More than a slayer arrow. It would be like an adrenaline hit, but stack with adrenaline. That's at least interesting and different than other classes.

When you say scales with 100% melee power, does that mean it would receive double the normal benefit? Guess i'm not clear on that.

[bbqzor]

A few initial changes based on players feedback:

~ The capstone core ability for Frenzied Berserker will also regenerate 1 charge of Rage every 120 seconds.

~ The tier 5 ability Accelerated Metabolism will be a multi-selector. The player can choose the healing ability or another ability to do more damage. Here's what we are thinking:

The Perfect Rage: Each vorpal melee hit you deliver does additional damage equal to your Barbarian level x 20. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.

1) FBs rarely have issues running out of rages in my experience. That happens farm more commonly in ravager (capstone) or occult slayer (turn rage on and off alot to do different things). With FB, so many effects require rage, its on and stays on, and generally you have enough. That said, its not an unliked idea, just one that Im not sure is necessary or fitting, to the point where youd want to do that over anything else.

2) Bad idea. Just makes swf barbs even better over 2hd. If anything, FB should focus on and support 2hd the most, if not to the exclusion of other styles. It was born of 2hd power attack in pnp, and for years in ddo has encouraged that style due to glances, aoe cleaves, etc. Concept might be ok, needs different mechanics that work best with 2hd, not with something else.

[Faltout]

The Perfect Rage: Each vorpal melee hit you deliver does additional damage equal to your Barbarian level x 20. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.


Sev~

...while raging. Don't forget rage

[Qhualor]

A few initial changes based on players feedback:

~ The capstone core ability for Frenzied Berserker will also regenerate 1 charge of Rage every 120 seconds.

~ The tier 5 ability Accelerated Metabolism will be a multi-selector. The player can choose the healing ability or another ability to do more damage. Here's what we are thinking:

The Perfect Rage: Each vorpal melee hit you deliver does additional damage equal to your Barbarian level x 20. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.


Sev~

~ at 120 seconds less incentive to spend points on extra rages. even for 5 minutes there would be less reason to spend the points. 1 rage on my FB already lasts 4-5 minutes in epics, probably longer since her gear is outdated mostly. I see no reason for this outside of long raids. pretty silly to have Extra Rages in the same tree that the capstone core will regenerate rages. I suggest putting this in Ravager where they would want to spend their rages to use Visage of Terror more often.

~ a multi-selector while in a quest? this would be a good one to use if tanking or have an actual healer in the group. have to see how well this would really be, but it sounds pretty powerful. this would proc only on a natural 20?

while I have your attention and thinking of this, can you please change Primal Scream to work while raged? right now it is just a start of the quest buff for a barb. you cant use it while raged.

there are also inconsistencies with Madstone proc, Madstone clicky, Primal Scream and barb rage. we were promised a long time ago that the shaken effect after Madstone Rage goes away would be fixed and it still is not. can we please have these looked into and fixed?

[Violith]

That would be...a lot. More than a slayer arrow. It would be like an adrenaline hit, but stack with adrenaline. That's at least interesting and different than other classes.

When you say scales with 100% melee power, does that mean it would receive double the normal benefit? Guess i'm not clear on that.

scaling with 100% melee power, means for each % of melee power you have, it'd increase by that much. so if you have 100% melee power, then yes it'd be doubled.

there are some abilities that scale up to 400% (like Blood Tribute: (1/1/1 AP) Gain +50/+100/+150 Temporary Health for one minute. This scales with 400% Melee Power. You have a stacking -1 penalty to constitution until you rest or die. (Cooldown: 3 seconds)) which means that for every % of melee power you have, its 4% better, thus with 100% melee power that t3 is 600temp hp you gain rather then 150 when used)

~ at 120 seconds less incentive to spend points on extra rages. even for 5 minutes there would be less reason to spend the points. 1 rage on my FB already lasts 4-5 minutes in epics, probably longer since her gear is outdated mostly. I see no reason for this outside of long raids. pretty silly to have Extra Rages in the same tree that the capstone core will regenerate rages. I suggest putting this in Ravager where they would want to spend their rages to use Visage of Terror more often.

~ a multi-selector while in a quest? this would be a good one to use if tanking or have an actual healer in the group. have to see how well this would really be, but it sounds pretty powerful. this would proc only on a natural 20?

while I have your attention and thinking of this, can you please change Primal Scream to work while raged? right now it is just a start of the quest buff for a barb. you cant use it while raged.

there are also inconsistencies with Madstone proc, Madstone clicky, Primal Scream and barb rage. we were promised a long time ago that the shaken effect after Madstone Rage goes away would be fixed and it still is not. can we please have these looked into and fixed?

guessing its not in quest, but when you buy it. so, its one or the other till you respec. and vorpals is nartual 20 (or 19-20 with swf), so basically anytime a manslayer effect would go off, you'd get extra dmg.

also, I agree that a regening rage would be better in ravanger.

[Standal]

First, what does this mean?

Blood Tribute: (1/1/1 AP) Gain +50/+100/+150 Temporary Health for one minute. This scales with 400% Melee Power. You have a stacking -1 penalty to constitution until you rest or die. (Cooldown: 3 seconds)

Does it mean that I get 150 * (4*MP) HP? So if MP is 50 I get 150 * (100+50*4/100) = 450 temp HP?

A few initial changes based on players feedback:

~ The capstone core ability for Frenzied Berserker will also regenerate 1 charge of Rage every 120 seconds.

~ The tier 5 ability Accelerated Metabolism will be a multi-selector. The player can choose the healing ability or another ability to do more damage. Here's what we are thinking:

The Perfect Rage: Each vorpal melee hit you deliver does additional damage equal to your Barbarian level x 20. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.


Sev~

So Perfect rage does 20*20*(100+MP/100)? So at 50 MP I would do 600 damage on a vorpal? About equal to lightning strike on a greensteel, but a 5% chance instead of 3%.
Not terrible since it comes out to about 30 per swing if my MP calcs are correct.

I'd really like to see more of the HP charges eliminated with more barb levels. It would be nice if the capstone just eliminated all HP penalties for barbarian abilities. Before you come back with vicious damage and such being the flavor of the barb class, keep in mind that that flavor was always the flavor of feces. People just put up with it because it was only a couple of points/swing and you normally had a divine babysitter of some sort.

[Severlin]

2) Bad idea. Just makes swf barbs even better over 2hd.

Fixed to be on 20.

Sev~

[bbqzor]

Fixed to be on 20.

Okay, now it makes TWF barbs better. Just use something that is actually "a good idea" on 2HD. Like make it scale like str 1.5 on 2hd kind of thing, so base 200 swf/twf 400 2hd. Sigh.

[Severlin]

Okay, now it makes TWF barbs better. Just use something that is actually "a good idea" on 2HD. Like make it scale like str 1.5 on 2hd kind of thing, so base 200 swf/twf 400 2hd. Sigh.

If it works like we imagine it to, then it will have a chance to proc on glancing blows like many on hit attacks. The idea is that will help even things out.

Sev~