U23: Worst. Release. Ever.

[Impaqt]

Not even close to worse release ever which was and still is, the original Abbot raid, mod (not update) 5 release. It was broken and unplayable and yet released. That was the last release before they stopped production for like a year before free to play went live. It was augmented by the fact that it came on the heels of possibly the greatest release ever... Gianthold, Mod 4.

Your timetable is far off.

there was over a year of releases between Necro 4 and the dark time. Highlighted by the Shroud. but Revers refuge was in there as well.


Titan was actually released in a worse state than Abbot. Abbot was beatable. and was beaten several times. just without doing the minigames.

Regardless... I've found U23 to be entertaining.
Content wise, I'd give it a "D". The 4 flagging quests are just rehashes with new mobs. no imagination went into the upgrades at all. The lack of LotD was a huge letdown as well as that was the highlight quest of od4 imo. the raid could of been a lot better as well.

that being said, Harper, PRR/MRR Changes and the loot overall make up for the bad content.

[Blackheartox]

Complaining abut drop rates for items in the newest raid after...what 2-3 weeks since it released?
Did you miss the grind to get ESOS? EThornlord? ERoSS? EE Ivy Wraps? The correct Dun'Robar seal? The correct Avithoul seal?
Have you never farmed the same quest hundreds of times to get a single item that just refuses to drop?
I have. There's noting wrong with the drop rates, we've just gotten spoiled with quick and easy loot for the last few updates.

Ransacked vol chest on ee 3 times /during 3 etrs and 5 bots for loot ransacked as well.
I have no issue whatsover to farm for a item, but i have a issue that people are reporting that they are getting it on eh/en more frequently.
I pulled so far only 2 non mythic gazes in how many loots? hmm 24 + 40 / 64 ee chest loots.
They got in around 1 ransack cycle aka 8-16 loots regulary on eh or en..
What i dont like is that really the further they go the less reason you have to do ee at all.

I got 3 sos shards so far during my ddo career, have eross, every dun ring i wanted, red dragon armors..
Im ok with farm, but im not ok with ee being utter waste of time.

I can bet all my years off ddo playing that they didnt change mythic chance drop on ee or eh, that its the same for all difficulties

[blerkington]

Are you kidding?

Hi,

Like I said, it's not a big deal.

But I would prefer being able to use fast travel to avoid combat in the wilderness area. If I want to fight, I'll run to the quest instead.

Thanks.

[Impaqt]

Hi,

Like I said, it's not a big deal.

But I would prefer being able to use fast travel to avoid combat in the wilderness area. If I want to fight, I'll run to the quest instead.

Thanks.

the Orchard teleporter dude absolutely puts you in a position where combat is NEVER required.

[blerkington]

the Orchard teleporter dude absolutely puts you in a position where combat is NEVER required.

Hi,

This is only true if your response to being attacked is to run to the quest entrance and go in without fighting your attackers.

As a little experiment, I just used the fast travel option in epic orchard.

At Ghosts of Perdition, I was immediately attacked by two doomspheres. More usually it's werewolves. Their leash is long enough that they can follow you up the hill and attack you right at the door.

At Vol, I was attacked by an Emerald Claw Scourge, an Elder Quell and a zombie. It was as soon as I loaded in, and hadn't moved yet. Fighting back can attract the attention of other creatures nearby, such as the usual spawn on the terrace level of the temple below the ramps.

At Inferno, there were two Nightshade Horror between me and the quest entrance. Due to the way they were facing, they didn't see me right away, but as I was tabbed out typing this they noticed me and attacked.

Fleshmaker's is the only quest where the spawns are normally far enough away not to notice you and attack.

Like I said in my first post, it's not a big deal. I just don't see why in the other areas where we have fast travel to quests we can usually avoid being attacked, but in the Epic Orchard we can't.

It's kind of a pain when you're waiting outside because not everyone arrives at the same time, and reduces the usefulness of the fast travel feature.

Thanks.

[bsquishwizzy]

Remember the day when running the Shroud for greensteel mats was "just the way you had to do it?"

Low-magic settings are looking more, and more attractive every day...

[Angelic-council]

Just wait for U24, new level cap with the big update.
New map: Anauroch? Most importantly, I wonder if they actually going to add high lvl spells into a spell book... Anyhow, U23 was ok.. I'm very disappointed that everyone can get awesome gear regardless of what difficulty they play, but U24 is the real concern here.

[Powskier]

so its the same as all the other updates? very rare drops for stuff u want...turbine shoots par!

[Seikojin]

OMG yes that darn right sigil frame from Inferno Multiple lives too!

True story, then I run with a group at level 28 on a whim and got the right frame last life. At L28 I went into the Litany part afterwards and got annoyed by the black dragon questions then he killed me with his bad breath :/

Annoyed I TR'ed the next day after a 1 and only 1 visit to the first part.

Now I'm back up to L19 and ran with some friends and got the right sigil again! First try too!

The funny part if over a year or more ago I lost the desire to try that silly raid due to the right sigil. I think it drops now for me, because I no longer want it : ) )

LOL, I hear ya there.

u23 doesn't disappoint me, just not having people to group with does.

[Krelar]

Just wait for U24, new level cap with the big update.
New map: Anauroch? Most importantly, I wonder if they actually going to add high lvl spells into a spell book... Anyhow, U23 was ok.. I'm very disappointed that everyone can get awesome gear regardless of what difficulty they play, but U24 is the real concern here.

Unless I missed a recent change U24 is not the level cap increase or Anaurach. It's the new event using mabar's items and some new quests that we haven't been told anything about yet.

Update 24 will round out the year with new quests, new Festivult cookies, and a new event that centers on something we can all agree on: looting chests!



We’ll be continuing our work on the Anauroch Desert (in the Forgotten Realms), planning for Sentient Weapons, and developing another Classic Dungeon like the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar. We expect these to be something you’ll see in the first half of 2015.



We’re pushing out the level cap for now to make sure we have plenty of questing to support your journey through the highest levels of DDO. Hitting level 30 will be a big milestone for DDO, and we want to put it out when the timing is right, and make sure its design keeps up with the way you, the players want to play DDO

[TheOnly_LightInDark]

Not even close to worse release ever which was and still is, the original Abbot raid, mod (not update) 5 release. It was broken and unplayable and yet released. That was the last release before they stopped production for like a year before free to play went live. It was augmented by the fact that it came on the heels of possibly the greatest release ever... Gianthold, Mod 4.

That's not true Mod 8 Way of the Monk was brought in before Free to play so at least 3 mods after 5

[Vanhooger]

I think that with Update 23 they went way to far for melee.

Just yesterday I was in vol ee with a friend.

I got red alert in a lvl 30 ee quest. Didn't had any issue while completely surrounded by like 20 + mob, and never got near death once.

Before melee where very hard to paly because of the damage spike especially if no evasion, but now is the opposite, they're god mode.

Also for Mythic elm, I already dropped 2 Mythic Emerald Gaze, and 1 Mythic Seraphim all of them on ee. Probably lot of luck this time.

[General_Gronker]

It should takes weeks - months to get good items,

No, it shouldn't. That's both bad design and lazy thinking on the part of those who think it's appropriate.

[BigErkyKid]

No, it shouldn't. That's both bad design and lazy thinking on the part of those who think it's appropriate.

So exactly what replay value would there be in DDO without character progression via loot and PLs?

[Sarzor]

I think you are in rare company indeed. Most everyone I have talked to LOVES the update.
I sure do.

Most of the people I talk to have the following thoughts:
1) Non-raid loot is really easy to get. Mythic less so, but mythic really isn't so much better.
2) Raid loot is a 'wait to 20th' thing. No-one is happy with this.
3) Quests are fairly easy for their level.
4) Wilderness is very well done.
5) Quells suck. They really were beefed up to the point of overpowered.
6) Doomspheres were overpowered to the point of absolute stupidity. Heroic quest con-draining someone for 30 per shot? And getting several of those shots in a very short timeframe? Seriously?
7) I like the teleport thing. It's convenient.
8) Quests are basically exactly the same, with slightly changed mobs. Wow, instead of mephits we get incredibly annoying air elementals! Wow, such originality!

As far as other changes:
1) People like PRR, especially since it gives paladins god mode.
2) Noone uses blitz any more. If they were trying to make people use other EDs, they succeeded. If they were trying to balance, they did a terrible job of it.

[BigErkyKid]

Most of the people I talk to have the following thoughts:
1) Non-raid loot is really easy to get. Mythic less so, but mythic really isn't so much better.
2) Raid loot is a 'wait to 20th' thing. No-one is happy with this.
3) Quests are fairly easy for their level.
4) Wilderness is very well done.
5) Quells suck. They really were beefed up to the point of overpowered.
6) Doomspheres were overpowered to the point of absolute stupidity. Heroic quest con-draining someone for 30 per shot? And getting several of those shots in a very short timeframe? Seriously?
7) I like the teleport thing. It's convenient.
8) Quests are basically exactly the same, with slightly changed mobs. Wow, instead of mephits we get incredibly annoying air elementals! Wow, such originality!

As far as other changes:
1) People like PRR, especially since it gives paladins god mode.
2) Noone uses blitz any more. If they were trying to make people use other EDs, they succeeded. If they were trying to balance, they did a terrible job of it.

I think this summarizes consensus pretty well IMO.

Personally, PRR seems low hanging ATM and I don't bother using blitz aside from on bosses.

Content wise, I would rate this expansion as a failure. Quests are easy in general and the raid has already been mastered and enslaved. Runs last now so little that it is hard not to say it has been trivialized.

The loot is very good and people like it (with exceptions), but powerful loot is not really the key point of an expansion.

Yes, it drops fast in quests and almost never in the raid, but that is a different topic.

[arkonas]

No, it shouldn't. That's both bad design and lazy thinking on the part of those who think it's appropriate.

seriously? this is what is wrong with the people today who say give me give me. this isn't a one play type game. its not one of those games that has 9hrs of game play and you're done. sorry but you need to earn stuff not be given it on a silver platter.

[Paleus]

So exactly what replay value would there be in DDO without character progression via loot and PLs?

This is not a contradiction to what you are asking. But, for me personally, DDO replay value is found in playing as different types of characters. So I personally like the update specifically because the vanguard tree gave me a new character type to play around with. I haven't tried incorporating the Harper tree yet to a character, but I hear some good things.

I don't see how this is the worst release ever. I think the OP might be conflating game fatigue overall with the release though. One thing that I find about releases is if you don't like the new quests, then a release combined with an event is going to drain the number of players doing other things, which could make the release period feel less enjoyable as there are fewer people to run with doing things you do like. Since I'm not doing Cove and only really doing Necro on the weekends, my TR life this time around has made it feel like I'm more or less stalking about three or four players because they are the only ones on doing the things in the level ranges that I want to do and I'm basically a pure pugger these days. Though I'm not complaining, its been fun.

[axel15810]

I think that with Update 23 they went way to far for melee.

Just yesterday I was in vol ee with a friend.

I got red alert in a lvl 30 ee quest. Didn't had any issue while completely surrounded by like 20 + mob, and never got near death once.

Before melee where very hard to paly because of the damage spike especially if no evasion, but now is the opposite, they're god mode.

Na, the game is much much more balanced now.

Melees are still getting pounded on 24/7, have very low dodge cap and can't use evasion.

Ranged and casters rarely get touched if played right and can use evasion and dodge.

And lets not forget that while melees got a boost in survivability, their DPS was reduced as masters blitz got a heavy nerf. I think the playing field is pretty balanced now between melee and casters. Casters should play a lot smarter now - instead of just zerging and blowing everything up, there's now a good reason to let melee grab aggro first and then start ranging things. The change did do a lot to encourage group play.

[Therigar]

What items, why is the PRR change bad and why is it a chore to play epic necro?

Don't know about the first two but as to epic necro -- it wasn't exactly a hot spot for players before it became epic.

Turbine has a tendency to take wastelands from heroic content and turn them into epic content as if that will boost player interest in those quests.

I can honestly say that I avoid Three Barrel Cove. There isn't anything there that I feel the need to run and there isn't any loot there that I feel I must have. Making it epic did not change that.

I hardly ever run anything in the Red Fens. Same thing, there isn't anything there that I need or want. That the quests there have epic options doesn't change that for me.

The last time I ran quests in the Desert of Menechtarun it was The Chamber of Raiyum and it was part of an epic XP zerg. I see LFMs from time to time for the raid but I can't be bothered to even flag. Again, there is nothing from any of the quests that I want or need.

As for Necropolis, I usually do not run any of the chains -- not the first one, not the second, not the third and certainly not the fourth. In this case it isn't because there is no loot out there that i want -- it is because it is not solo friendly. It is possible that I have never run Litany of the Dead or Ascension Chamber -- and I've been playing DDO since '06.

These areas are not compelling stories, they do not offer reasonable access to must have loot, they are just retreads of old quests and not anything new.

I did not mention Gianthold because I have always enjoyed those quests. But the same thing hold true about the epic versions. They are just a tired retread of the heroic quests.

Now, I get it that some players like each of the areas that I don't like. That's great. But be honest, look at the complexity of the quests -- their length, difficulty, loot and XP -- and look at the favor rewards for completing them. There is no reason to run any of those areas.

To be really honest, I have a L28, two L26 and a L21 character and none of them has done any of the Underdark quests or more in Eveningstar than Wheloon, the King's Forest and/or the High Road.

When you are playing for XP -- which is my main focus -- you don't really need to hit any of those areas. And, when a quest line comes out that just takes a heroic area you don't play and turns it into an epic area -- well, you continue to not play there.

I do not agree with the assessment that U23 is a bad release. I quite like the changes that were made. But, the new adventure area -- I might never play those quests because they simply are not worth my time or effort to complete and they do not offer me anything compelling to draw me to them.