Change to Epic Glimpse of the Soul

[Vooduspyce]

/signed

[Vooduspyce]

Effects that provide bonuses to saves - Such as "+X Resistance" items, or Sapphires of Resistance augments - do already stack with effects that provide bonuses to saves from individual schools (such as the +6 to Illusion and Enchantment saves found on the Epic Glimpse the Soul), even if they are the same bonus type. We'll look into a possible wording change to make this more clear.

Did not know this, very cool!

[cru121]

For saves, there are separate statistics tracked for Disease, Poison, Magic, Traps, Paralysis, Fear, Illusion, Energy Drain, and Sleep (in addition to general Reflex, Fortitude, and Will). Each of these is actually broken up by Reflex, Fortitude and Will.

It seems that you guys also have special category "Save vs Spells", because some classes gain extra saves vs spells, and since U23 we also have
Insightful Spell Save +1 (This item gives a +1 insight bonus to your saves versus spells.)
For example on Epic Death's Rampart.
This armor offers also more new effects: Insightful Will Save +2 and Insightful Fort Save +2. Of course, these two don't stack with the more common Parrying / Riposte. I wonder if that's WAI.

What remains unclear and was questioned by players before are the bonus saves vs Energy Drain (available for example for Spellsingers) - which does NOT offer a saving throw. Perhaps it offers benefit against the special attack of Wights which may bestow a neg level (not sure if that allows a save)? Are there any negleveling effects where a successful save can help you?

[Kaytis]

I just read this whole thread. I don't mean this in a snarky or unkind way - I don't think it's any clearer to me how anything stacks. It's clear that some things do. But if someone asked me what their current save vs. Hold Person is, I would very likely get it wrong if they had more than 2 or 3 of the bonuses mentioned.

I used to run around with a +5 resistance item and a Cannith +1 to will save item that I was too lazy to replace. Did I have +6 against anything ever?

[nivarch]

I am surprised that people are surprised by that.
As far as I know saves against specific spell schools stacked for a long time.

Since the introduction of Cannith Crafting I have crafted +enchantment save hats giving me virtual immunity to Hold person at low levels. I always assumed it was common knowledge since I definitely learnt it on the forums.
I however always thought it was a bug.

Parasitic breastplate (mentioned in the thread) shouldn't be stacking anymore. It is just a reflex save not a save against a specific school.
It stacked when the item was released and got fixed later iirc.

[droid327]

This is another example of where a Character Sheet revamp would be in order...

Have a flyover tooltip on each of your individual Saves that break down your Saves vs the various schools. Then you could see immediately which effects were stacking and which weren't.

Or perhaps more simplistically, just change the various school-based saves to a School type save to Will/Fort/etc. That way, it works the same, but its clear that it will stack with Resistance bonuses, but not with other similar School based saves.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

Long term we hope to clarify this more, as it's clearly caused some confusion.

The best way to clarify stuff like this is a comprehensive character sheet update that accurately shows stuff like this. And by "comprehensive" I want something that shows ALL the numbers, and the sources thereof, in a clean pop-up. (I can't tell you how many times I've looked at a number and then spent the next hour trying to figure out how I got that number, poring through all my items and feats and enhancements before finally figuring out where that last two points of diplomacy came from.)