Potential changes to healing amplification

[Severlin]

Hm. Seems like a reasonable plan, at least mostly. Just, details...


So how was that again with existing items? (Such as, say, an existing greensteel heal amp offhander, or old random-loot Convalescent bracers?) Surely items are going to autoconvert over rather than become obsolete, I hope? (Not that I have any worth mentioning yet, myself, but still.)

I don't think anyone expected to get heal amp on items that didn't have it already, but since a number of items do have it... some clarification would be appreciated?

The healing amplification effects on them will be updated to rating and doubled as described in the OP.

Sev~

[Archangel666]

Hmm my numbers are different:



On live this build has 1.2 * 1.1 * 1.2 * 1.3 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.3 (all 6 core of Shintao) = 4.232943
Under the new system you will have 40 + 20 + 40 + 60 + 50 + 30 + 20 + 60 = 320 = (100 + 320)/100 = 4.2

A 100 hit point heal will do 420 instead of 423 on live.

Sev~

Thank you for the clarification.

I'll stop sharpening the pitchfork (for now).

I'll be honest. I was expecting the worst.

Not your fault, it's just a Turbine past record thing with me and completely subjective.

*Edit* You know what? If this is the way you intend to implement it then I'm actually going to say Thank You.

The last week or so I've been working a lot and haven't had much play time, and when I have, I've had a kinda disappointed "What's the point" feeling. I've been working my way through my final Pally Life on my Monk which I started doing because of HAmp, and then this came up and I was starting to feel like I'd put in the effort to get those three Past Lives and it was going to be made pointless.

[FestusHood]

This really needs clarification...

I'm assuming it means existing items wont get healing amp added to them.. but all existing items that already have HA will be adjusted to the new system.

Also: Please get the Character sheet revision in sooner than later... Still missing Spell Crit chance as well.

That's how they did it with dodge and exceptional skills when they changed them. All the old items were adjusted.
I assume it's not that hard to do, not to mention they will probably have to meddle with their effects anyway to change them from a % to a power rating.

P.S. Never mind, answered while typing.

[Qhualor]

1. any chance we will see an improvement to repairs as well? im not talking BF Paladins or toaster casters. im talking about WF melees and to an extent BF melees. take my WF pure Fighter for example. i mentioned this in the other thread too, but unless there is improvements for WF who rely on repair pots to survive, i have no choice but to TR into BF just to get reconstruct. that means taking feats and equipping an sp item i otherwise would not be doing. right now a serious repair pot heals my WF at level 17 for ~20 hp. i have to think not only about my own self healing, but also the positive healing i would get from other party members. that means choosing between Healers Friend or Mechanist. that also means having to rely on SF pots that will do ~300 per pot. in epics i would have to twist Sacred Ground or Cocoon or something while also having sp and taking feats to help boost it. repairs for WF melees is long overdue and i think its pretty bad that if i want decent repair healing that i cant play a WF and have to TR into a class that can give my character that.

2. any insight on barbarian heal amp in the trees? is this the "answer" we have been asking about for better self sufficiency? please note that if that is the case than the heal amp would have to be equivalent to a SF pot to be worth it in epics.

3. please add heal amp in higher level items on other items besides bracers and gloves for more options while gearing a character.

[FestusHood]

So only items with different values will continue to stack? Sorry i'm still not completely clear about this.

Wondering if it's time to have a yard sale with some of my older convalescent bracers or not, since i have them in 10,20,and 30.

[EllisDee37]

My assumption is that items won't stack with each other. Either they stack, or they're doubled. Not both. Much like the dodge pass. It should still work out about right.


Worst case scenario, or at least a very unfavorable one for non-stacking, let's say a character with...
- nine 10% sources of non-item amp (3 human, 3 paladin, 1 divine crusader, 1 ship buff, 2 pally past lives)
- all three basic items (30%, 20% and 10%)

On live, that character has 1.1^9 * 1.1 * 1.2 * 1.3 ~ 4.046 amp

Under the new system, assuming non-stacking items, meaning the 30% item gives 60 and the 10% and 20% items literally do nothing, that works out to:

(100 + 20*9 + 60)/100 = 3.4 amp (4.0 if items stacked)

That's a bit of a nerf if the items no longer stack, so I can see why the initial idea has them stacking. Seems weird, though, since it would be the only item effect in the entire game that stacked with itself, right?



Now to consider an "average" amp build, let's say:
- four 10% sources of non-item amp (2 enhancements, 1 divine crusader, 1 ship buff)
- the "big two" items (30% and 20%)

On live, that character has 1.1^4 * 1.2 * 1.3 ~ 2.284 amp

Under the new system, assuming non-stacking items, meaning the 30% item gives 60 and 20% item literally does nothing, that works out to:

(100 + 20*4 + 60)/100 = 2.4 amp (2.8 if items stacked)


Despite being a devout healing amp guy, I'm thinking that items shouldn't stack. But of course you could introduce different types of amp that does stack. So say +60 competence on PDK gloves, iron mitts and eClaw, and +40 insightful on levik's bracers.

[btolson]

In general I think this is fine, but you should do something to help the extreme hamp builds.

For instance, maxing out the monk healing amp enhancements could grant you a passive "Master of Light" buff.
Master of Light: for every 10 points of healing amp you possess, you have a 1% chance to gain critical healing (double effect) from fists of light.

Thus, someone with 500 healing amp would have a 50% chance to gain 2d2 healing from fists of light instead of 1d2.

[UurlockYgmeov]

See my previous reply (and apology) - Purple Dragon Gauntlets would be converted to +60.

Sev~

+1 for fast response!
+10 for saying mea maxima culpa!
+1 for the clarification

Your fingers faster than mine!

Keep it up!

[UurlockYgmeov]

1. any chance we will see an improvement to repairs as well? im not talking BF Paladins or toaster casters. im talking about WF melees and to an extent BF melees. take my WF pure Fighter for example. i mentioned this in the other thread too, but unless there is improvements for WF who rely on repair pots to survive, i have no choice but to TR into BF just to get reconstruct. that means taking feats and equipping an sp item i otherwise would not be doing. right now a serious repair pot heals my WF at level 17 for ~20 hp. i have to think not only about my own self healing, but also the positive healing i would get from other party members. that means choosing between Healers Friend or Mechanist. that also means having to rely on SF pots that will do ~300 per pot. in epics i would have to twist Sacred Ground or Cocoon or something while also having sp and taking feats to help boost it. repairs for WF melees is long overdue and i think its pretty bad that if i want decent repair healing that i cant play a WF and have to TR into a class that can give my character that.

2. any insight on barbarian heal amp in the trees? is this the "answer" we have been asking about for better self sufficiency? please note that if that is the case than the heal amp would have to be equivalent to a SF pot to be worth it in epics.

3. please add heal amp in higher level items on other items besides bracers and gloves for more options while gearing a character.

1. Agree. Think that when you hear healing amp think repair amp as well.

2. Sure that will be many more dev diaries.

3. Am confident it will show up in augments in U24.

[FestusHood]

In general I think this is fine, but you should do something to help the extreme hamp builds.

For instance, maxing out the monk healing amp enhancements could grant you a passive "Master of Light" buff.
Master of Light: for every 10 points of healing amp you possess, you have a 1% chance to gain critical healing (double effect) from fists of light.

Thus, someone with 500 healing amp would have a 50% chance to gain 2d2 healing from fists of light instead of 1d2.

Shintao cores could scale with 200% hamp power. Capstone maybe.

[Wizza]

Okay, now that we cleared the issue with the old items:

Are you really sure you wanna buff pretty much every build out there with these changes? The changes to PRR, MRR, Vanguard tree, Melee Power etc with the latest update gave us already way too much power than we probably needed. Toons are in almost god mode, even on EE. This change will make questing and raiding, for most of us, even easier.

I'm not really sure this buff is needed at all. And still, I don't see a reason for this change. If itemization was your problem, adding more Heal amp choices would have been a better solution. But you guys at Turbine don't like easy solutions so not expecting it.

[rayworks]

Greetings,

Today we want to discuss healing amplification.

Instead of constantly modifying things that no one I know has asked to be fixed, try fixing the bugs and exploits.

[Archangel666]

In general I think this is fine, but you should do something to help the extreme hamp builds.

For instance, maxing out the monk healing amp enhancements could grant you a passive "Master of Light" buff.
Master of Light: for every 10 points of healing amp you possess, you have a 1% chance to gain critical healing (double effect) from fists of light.

Thus, someone with 500 healing amp would have a 50% chance to gain 2d2 healing from fists of light instead of 1d2.

While outside of the scope of this thread, I do have to say I would love this!

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

How about for all named non starter and non challenge items with healing/repair/negative energy amplification, you make them randomly generated between the three amplification types?

This will open up more character build options based on equipment selection.

[Certon]

Fussing with minutiae instead of dealing with REAL problems.

Check.

[FestusHood]

Okay, now that we cleared the issue with the old items:

Are you really sure you wanna buff pretty much every build out there with these changes? The changes to PRR, MRR, Vanguard tree, Melee Power etc with the latest update gave us already way too much power than we probably needed. Toons are in almost god mode, even on EE. This change will make questing and raiding, for most of us, even easier.

I'm not really sure this buff is needed at all. And still, I don't see a reason for this change. If itemization was your problem, adding more Heal amp choices would have been a better solution. But you guys at Turbine don't like easy solutions so not expecting it.

I'm starting to think i agree with this. Previously when they doubled the values on things like dodge and skills, they stopped stacking. Most builds are going to be hugely buffed by doubling and still allowing stacking. Just talking about items here. Of course enhancements and past lives should continue to stack.

[Impaqt]

I'm not really sure this buff is needed at all. And still, I don't see a reason for this change. If itemization was your problem, adding more Heal amp choices would have been a better solution. But you guys at Turbine don't like easy solutions so not expecting it.

more choices to the current system = even more ways to multiply the effects.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

I'm starting to think i agree with this. Previously when they doubled the values on things like dodge and skills, they stopped stacking. Most builds are going to be hugely buffed by doubling and still allowing stacking. Just talking about items here. Of course enhancements and past lives should continue to stack.

All will be fine in the long run, if this does make things too powerful, they can always fix it and who knows, maybe them doing it that way will bring better results than leaving it alone or handling this via another process.

The fact of the matter is that game development is a matter of trial and error, it don't simply end just because... the trial and error continues on seeking perfection.

All I can say is to believe in the trial and error process in this case as DDO does receive a lot of money to keep it all going!

[FestusHood]

All will be fine in the long run, if this does make things too powerful, they can always fix it and who knows, maybe them doing it that way will bring better results than leaving it alone or handling this via another process.

The fact of the matter is that game development is a matter of trial and error, it don't simply end just because... the trial and error continues on seeking perfection.

All I can say is to believe in the trial and error process in this case as DDO does receive a lot of money to keep it all going!

The amounts from gear will be huge, though, and overshadow the effects from past lives and enhancements, even if they are doubled.

[Toro12]

So all the work I did grinding dodge items to have a good AC went out the window. So now my AC sucks.
No worries I think , I have lots of healing amp to fall back on.
Enh pass comes and the monk gets the shaft in having to wait 20 levels to get the amp I used to have by level 11. (And a boat load of earth stance related junk I have Zero interest in)
No worries I think by the time I really need the amp I'll have it'

So running around in DT armor , jid'z (in sub optimal fire stance) and all that jazz and now I'm not even going to be able to get 4 points on a fist of light anymore? Giving up a boat load of damage to run lesser vamp wraps with tons of heal amp gear. Level 5 gear at level 28 guys.

Any puts that splashes 1 monk can get grandmaster stances by burning a couple of feats stay centered swinging a eSoS with something stupid like an x6 multiplier.
All I got was a lousy d8 base (ohh yeah and lost my freaking plus die step from past life )

Seriously guys W.T.F?

I understand you have been getting flack for the OP monk splashes but us pure monks are taking it pretty bad.

I understand this isn't slanted to hit monks but you all have been doing a bang up job of killing us with your system changes.