Potential changes to healing amplification

[FestusHood]

How will items stack? In your currently on live example you mention two separate items, one with 20%, and one with 30%. These would become 40 and 60 in the new system, and still stack?

Currently only items with different values stack. What would happen if i have two different items each with (currently) 30% heal amp on them? Would they be able to stack, or would they become redundant as they are on live now?

[EllisDee37]

Just to throw this out there:

A healing amp pass would be a great time to introduce healing amp augments, don't you think? Ideally yellow.

[Archangel666]

If I copied everything into my excel spreadsheet correctly----

That will be going from 1.2*1.1*1.2*1.25*1.15*1.1*1.34=4.3
To (100+40+20+40+30+50+30+20+60)/100=3.9

Thank you.

Quite a bit of a nerf then. I know people will point out that it's only 40% ish, but that 40% means the difference between hitting 400% or not and 400% means numbers increasing by 1 per hit or 2 on crits (I think it's crits, but not sure I just know that the numbers alternated between say 6 and 12 for example, muddled brain so if I've got numbers wrong, meh).

[Systern]

Our first build has two Paladin past lives (currently 10%), healing amplification from Vigor of Life (currently 10%), a 30% healing amplification source, and a 20% healing amplification source.

On live this would be 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.3 * 1.2 for a total multiplier of ~1.887.

I was under the impression that the pally past lives multiplied independently because of the way that past life stacking occurred: 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.1 * 1.3 * 1.2 = 1.89189. (But maybe that got changed with the Healer's Friend changes a year+ ago... I can't recall)



The times when I was most concerned about healing amp were when leveling a lowbie monk, and mainly using fists of light to keep the hp up. Getting over the threshold of gaining +1 hp per hit to +2 and +3 will be more difficult.


I'd also really like to see a yellow augment be made available since the result of this is that "average" characters will need to itemize for it more than they previously had.

[Severlin]

Somebody who understands this . . .

Would a 3 pally-PL human with 30%, 20% items and 30% racial see a buff or a nerf?

That's 290% versus 235% on live?

Right?

Current system is 1.15 * 1.3 * 1.2 * 1.3 = 2.33

New system is 30 + 60 + 40 + 60 = 190 = (100 + 190)/100 = 2.9

Sev~

[Severlin]

Will the Healing Amp and Repair Amp now show on the character sheet like SP/MP/RP? (YES it should be there)

A character sheet update is not slated for this update. (Though we agree it should be there.)

Will new sources be available as an augment? Color?
Will new sources be named items? (of course)
Will new sources be in the random loot gen?
How will this affect Greensteel and existing (sounds like doubling existing into integers)?

Existing items won't be retrofitted, but new items and systems can now include healing amplification.

Sev~

[Severlin]

Will existing items with specific exceptions be classified as an enhancement bonus?

No, because if we did that they wouldn't stack. We want current items to have the same stacking in the new system as they do on live.

Will we be able to get whatever bonus it is through augments at any point?

Having a healing amplification augment is the type of item we envisioned when we were looking at changes.

Will we be able to get an equivalent "Insight" bonus to Healing Amplification Rating through either other special items or augments?

What ever we call the bonus type they should still allow things to stack as they do on live.

Sev~

[Gloomfall]

Answers.
Sev~

Thanks Sev!

Looking forward to the awesome Barbarian changes coming through the pipeline after this!

I think that it will open up a ton of new possibilities for fleshy characters.

[Wizza]

A character sheet update is not slated for this update. (Though we agree it should be there.)

Of course it's not.

Existing items won't be retrofitted, but new items and systems can now include healing amplification.

Sev~

Wait wait, am I reading this correctly? This change will only work on NEW items but old items such as GS Heal Amp Weapon, Finger of Necklace, PDK gloves, Iron Mitts will NOT have the new Healing Amp rating? Will we have to farm them AGAIN?

[Vellrad]

I don't really care, as long as I won't have to reaquire items to have better version (imagine someone farming 20 mods to see his/her necklace be 30% where newly aquired will be 60), but I think paladin past life should be exceptiona and stack as it does now (no I don't have any pal PLs).

[Bargol]

Existing items won't be retrofitted, but new items and systems can now include healing amplification.

Sev~

Clarify please....

So old items remain multiplicative? or they remain 10, 20, or 30?

Also please tell us we will see yellow augments with fleshmakers and heal amp.

[Zzevel]

Existing items won't be retrofitted, but new items and systems can now include healing amplification.

Sev~

translation everything you now own will be junk, go out and grind for the new stuff and when we introduce the 500th different crafting/upgrade system you might see healing amp included...


This is poo.. always half way with your stupid changes. If you want to make a change do it right or don't waste our time. There is so much in the game that is junk because you didnt spend the time to get it right.. ug this is frustrating.

[Severlin]

If I copied everything into my excel spreadsheet correctly----

That will be going from 1.2*1.1*1.2*1.25*1.15*1.1*1.34=4.3
To (100+40+20+40+30+50+30+20+60)/100=3.9

Hmm my numbers are different:

20% Human, 10% and 20% DT vestments, 30% PDK Gloves, 25% Jidz, 3x Pally PL's, 10% Ship Buff All Tiers of Shintao (can't remember what that equals).

On live this build has 1.2 * 1.1 * 1.2 * 1.3 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.3 (all 6 core of Shintao) = 4.232943
Under the new system you will have 40 + 20 + 40 + 60 + 50 + 30 + 20 + 60 = 320 = (100 + 320)/100 = 4.2

A 100 hit point heal will do 420 instead of 423 on live.

Sev~

[Archangel666]

*deleted because Sev just posted and my question may have been pointless.*

[UurlockYgmeov]

A character sheet update is not slated for this update. (Though we agree it should be there.)

Good. And much more like spell critical chance etc.

Existing items won't be retrofitted, but new items and systems can now include healing amplification.

Sev~

So items like Purple Dragon Gauntlets that have 30% won't be converted to +60? Same goes for Greensteel healing amp items?

The current percentage values would be converted into a rating and then, to keep Healing Amplification competitive, the rating would be doubled. 10% Healing Amplification would become a rating of 20. 20% Healing Amplification would become a rating of 40.

just probably a miscommunication on my part.

[Impaqt]

Existing items won't be retrofitted, but new items and systems can now include healing amplification.

Sev~

This really needs clarification...

I'm assuming it means existing items wont get healing amp added to them.. but all existing items that already have HA will be adjusted to the new system.

Also: Please get the Character sheet revision in sooner than later... Still missing Spell Crit chance as well.

[Vargouille]

We expect many sources of existing Healing Amp to gain explicit bonus types, mostly to make it more obvious and work like other effects in DDO, (but not with a goal of making them all the same bonus type). By and large we're expecting most things that currently stack to continue to stack, but with new bonus types that make this clear. This also means that current 30% items won't suddenly start stacking. They're likely to become +60 Healing Amp of a specific bonus type. Some sources of Healing Amp, such as Jidz-Tet'ka, already have explicit types.

Somebody translate this into and Excel formula for me? Thanks.

Old Healing Amp: Generally meant mutiply all the numbers together. 10% healing amp meant multiply by 1.10, so if you had three stacking sources of 10, 20, and 30% you're overall healing was 1.1 * 1.2 * 1.3 => 1.716 => 71.6% more healing.

New Healing Amp is just add up all the numbers as bonus healing. If you had 20 + 40 + 60, that's +120% more healing. The other way to look at the formula is (100 + HealingAmp) / 100 => (100 + 120) / 100 => 220 / 100 => 2.2 is the multiplier (which of course still means +120% healing).

Fleshmaker (AKA: Finger Necklace) has always been trying to do addition, not multiplication, which is why it was a bit ... squirrelly when mixed up in other things that did multiplication.

This change will only work on NEW items but old items such as GS Heal Amp Weapon, Finger of Necklace, PDK gloves, Iron Mitts will NOT have the new Healing Amp rating? Will we have to farm them AGAIN?

No. Old items will change. We won't be automatically changing old stuff into augments or whatnot; this isn't a pass for making many new items or new healing amplification sources (other than Barbarian).

[Severlin]

translation everything you now own will be junk, go out and grind for the new stuff and when we introduce the 500th different crafting/upgrade system you might see healing amp included...


This is poo.. always half way with your stupid changes. If you want to make a change do it right or don't waste our time. There is so much in the game that is junk because you didnt spend the time to get it right.. ug this is frustrating.

I'm sorry, I totally wrote something easily misunderstood. My bad. All existing items with healing amplification will be converted to a rating (and doubled) so they fit into the design.

I meant that we won't be adding healing amplification to existing items that don't already have it. Existing random loot tables or crafting systems won't as part of this update have a new healing amplification option added.

If healing amplification currently exists, however, it will be updated to rating and doubled as described in the OP.

Sev~

[mna]

... oh, never mind then.

[Severlin]

So items like Purple Dragon Gauntlets that have 30% won't be converted to +60? Same goes for Greensteel healing amp items?

See my previous reply (and apology) - Purple Dragon Gauntlets would be converted to +60.

Sev~