Potential changes to healing amplification

[Qhualor]

How about creating an iconic with a racial ability that lets them cast the repair spell, where fleshie melees have to make due with cure serious wounds and give up a twist of fate slot for cocoon. This way with just a repair augment slotted in a weapon they would have been usign anyway, they can heal to full with one click. Where the fleshie has to slot heal amp and devotion item, to be able to heal 1/4 of his hp per click.

That's what I would need to do with my pure WF fighter if I want to continue playing a toaster. She repairs for ~20 from serious repair pots. TRing into BF should not be the answer.

Edit: I don't think you realize that being a BF means reconstruct will fill up your HP without investment.

[MangLord]

I'm hoping you were being sarcastic, because the person you quoted certainly was. They were commenting on how easy it is for a robot to get great levels of self healing with minimal investment, as opposed to fleshies that have to stack devotion/heal/hamp to achieve similar numbers.

I agree that playing a fleshie requires a rather substantial gear investment over going BF and having the reconstruct SLA. You can get a reconstruct ruby and call it a day. After playing both an elf cleric and WF artificer at epic levels, I'd have to say that Reconstruct is the superior spell. It seems to heal better and provides a short term speed boost. Fleshies have to completely sacrifice a gear slot with the need to have PDK Gauntlets/Iron Mitts for their entire epic career. It doesn't seem like much, but when you take into account the fact that there are only 12 gear slots, it does become important. My WF arty could easily heal himself for 500hp with only a crafted +66 reconstruct ring, while my cleric was doing similar numbers with +30% hamp and an EH Shamanic Fetish. That doesn't seem fair.

If we can be freed from PDK/Mitts with some sort of similarly functioning augments/lootgen, that would be tremendously freeing for gear switcheroo. I'm all for it if it functions at a similar level to the PDK/Mitts. Self healing and healing amp plays a large part in build viability, so be careful you don't accidentally gimp everyone not made of metal in one update.

It may be a little late for this, but Harper tree would have been nice with a 3rd or 4th tier CCW SLA for a low expenditure fleshie heal as you run for your life when you get mob aggro. Bladeforged gets a terrific, low lying healing spell as a premium race, so why shouldn't a premium tree get it? I'd suggest replacing tier 2 Heroic Companion with a SLA cure spell. I'd guess 0.000001% of the players actually put points in that enhancement. It seemed like an archaic placeholder to begin with. No one has time to target and throw that clickie on a friend in the middle of combat. We're all too busy killing stuff and healing each other. 30 sec action boosts only work for yourself, because it's generally far too iffy to throw a small boost on a pal and hope that they're in range when you're busy CCing, healing, or killing enemies. It works for a tabletop game, when you have time to think about the next round, but not so much in a realtime videogame.

[Rull]

One thing I like about this:

Old System:
dwarf/elf/etc. with 30% item / 20% item / 10% shipbuff / 5% paladinPL: 1.8x healing
going human increases this with 33% to 2.4x

New System
dwarf/elf/etc. with 30% item / 20% item / 10% shipbuff / 5% paladinPL: 2.3x healing
going human increases this with 26% to 2.9x

So I'll feel slightly less obligated to roll a human. Only slightly but hey it's something.
I really would like to see a con-based dwarf or a shortsword (elf) favored soul swashbuckler be competative, but whatever build I make human always turns out to be the better choice. hamp is one aspect in that.

[MangLord]

Interesting. I almost always play a demihuman, and I never seem to have issues self healing. Then again, I'm a gearnerd, and usually have as good of a devotion item on as possible and the rest of my gear laced up very tightly to maximize effectiveness. With my current swashbuckling Brighter (bard14/rogue2/fighter4) build, this has become somewhat trickier as I use a Treasure Hunter's Spyglass in my trinket slot, where I would normally have a Shamanic Fetish. It's not an issue after level 24, when I can equip my Devotion slotted Barnacled Buckler, but before that I use a crafted Devotion66/Heal+13 ring with colorless/yellow slots. It easily handles EH, but EE at level can be tricky if a couple enemies save against my Fascinate, and especially caster bosses with CC will save spells.

Long story short, I find it more effective to have adequate healing and terrific DPS, rather than the other way around. If the enemies are still alive and hitting you, then they're reducing the efficiency of your healing and DPS at the same time. If you can expedite an encounter, either by raw DPS, great CC, defense, party tactics or whatever, then you waste less time tossing heals on yourself, save SP in the long run, and things go smoothly.

I'm more than happy to entertain changes with healing, but IMO, they need to be geared towards streamlining the system rather than adding more junk we need to slot into overburdened gear. (more ring slots perhaps? I'd spend TP on that without thinking about it.)

[Tilomere]

Other evidence HAMP needs to be additive with spell power (1 HAMP = 3 Spell Power) instead of multiplicative with spell power.

Renewal + HAMP x Spell Power = invincible in EE.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-getting-bored

[Scrabbler]

Other evidence HAMP needs to be additive with spell power (1 HAMP = 3 Spell Power) instead of multiplicative with spell power.

Yeah, healing amp certainly should function as if the caster had higher spellpower.

It's really funny for me to see that suggested now, because I suggested it over 5 years ago...! Nobody cared then, but I guess it's the new PRR MRR stuff that really makes the problem clear.

[GeoffWatson]

With the new Barbarian Healing Amp - is that using the new system, or the old system (and will be doubled in the new)?

Geoff.

[Scrabbler]

With the new Barbarian Healing Amp - is that using the new system, or the old system (and will be doubled in the new)?

The posted descriptions of new Barb enhancements are written in the notation of the new healing amp system, which works by ratings instead of percentages.

[phillymiket]

nvm

[MangLord]

Does anyone know if Harper +10% hamp stacks with Iron Mitts or PDK Gauntlets +30% hamp, offhand? I've been feeling like it doesn't.

[Zzevel]

how will warforged be handled? If they become additive as well, they will become a prime heal amp race:
50 base +20 +20 +20 enhancements => 1.1, third best after humans and half elfs.

I recommend they keep their x 0.5 multiplicative penalty. So that they will be at 0.5 * (100+ 3x20 enhs + gear + stuff).
Bladeforged should be then 0.45 * (100 + stuff).

Why not just make the WF equation (100 + rating / 125) or (100 + rating / 150) and keep everything else the same, that way you still have 1 system for everyone, but WF is lowered automatically due to their equation.

[Rull]

Why not just make the WF equation (100 + rating / 125) or (100 + rating / 150) and keep everything else the same, that way you still have 1 system for everyone, but WF is lowered automatically due to their equation.

Because it would be nice if the enhancement line to make yourself more healer friendly would change the modifier, not the value.

0.5 * (100 + rating) / 100, or the equivalent (100 + rating) / 200
would become
0.8 * (100 + rating) / 100, or the equivalent (100 + rating) / 125

Changing healer's friend to just give healing amp scales differently and healing amp feels weird on a construct.

If it just gave amp 20/40/60 you still heal so much worse than a fleshy. Given a reasonable 200 from items and class:
(100 + 60 + 200) / 200 = 1.8
where a fleshy would get
(100 +200) / 100 = 3.0

If you change this to 40/80/120 you run into the problem that a low level a construct heals even better than a (nonhuman) fleshy.

So the only way would indeed be going with the (100 + rating) / 125 and effectively giving the healer's friend thing for free to everyone.
Less diversity between the constructs who do want to take it and those who don't.

(note that you can't ALSO keep a healing amp line, along with the / 125, because than the WF would also actually heal better than flesh at lower level)

[matezzo]

I don't like this new system,just makes the game easier for almost every one. I miss the old days when a balanced party was required to run heroic elite-s. Stop buffing up the characters, the game is easy enough already-except epic elite, but then the jump from EH is way too big.

If you must change it then think it more through. An easily acquirable item like the PDK gloves should not have 60% heal amp.. Let these items stay where they were (30) and give some high level items and class abilities a buff. 8-900 heal amp was ridikulous, I don't care how hard it is to achieve.

I'd alsolike if ac-prr-mrr thing would be revisited

[Oxarhamar]

I don't think you realize that being a BF means reconstruct will fill up your HP without investment.

This is completely untrue.

Unless of course your HP falls somewhere ~300-400.


To fill an average Epic BF HP with Communion of Scribing (Reconstruct) requires investment.

AP investment in Repair amp in BF tree?
Skill point investment in Repair?
Spell power item?
Red augment slot?
Sacrafices of posative healing options?

This is not equal to No investment, though it's a popular opinion it's completely false.

[Qhualor]

This is completely untrue.

Unless of course your HP falls somewhere ~300-400.


To fill an average Epic BF HP with Communion of Scribing (Reconstruct) requires investment.

AP investment in Repair amp in BF tree?
Skill point investment in Repair?
Spell power item?
Red augment slot?
Sacrafices of posative healing options?

This is not equal to No investment, though it's a popular opinion it's completely false.

yeah I know. read the context of the conversation. we were talking about how to balance out repair amp to boost melee WF while not boosting casters with repair.

[Oxarhamar]

yeah I know. read the context of the conversation. we were talking about how to balance out repair amp to boost melee WF while not boosting casters with repair.

the context very much reads as if there is not investment needed weather that is the intent or not.

[Gempoult]

No time to read all the replies (sure someone mentioned it already) - another great idea with horrible implementation - you "doubled the healing amp from enhancements" but not ALL enhancements, monk's shintao cores are not changed which is further nerf to that class, not as big as with u23 but a nerf which is adding insult to injury pretty much. Paladin past lives are not doubled also, which makes them quite useless, if you can get 60 from an item, another 40 from different bonus type item and 20-50 for few action points would you bother with a TR for added 5 more?

[Krelar]

No time to read all the replies (sure someone mentioned it already) - another great idea with horrible implementation - you "doubled the healing amp from enhancements" but not ALL enhancements, monk's shintao cores are not changed which is further nerf to that class, not as big as with u23 but a nerf which is adding insult to injury pretty much. Paladin past lives are not doubled also, which makes them quite useless, if you can get 60 from an item, another 40 from different bonus type item and 20-50 for few action points would you bother with a TR for added 5 more?

The paladin past life is double but the description was not changed.

I currently have 170 healing amp on my bard mix.

100 from equipment (60 item and 40 item)
20 from Divine Crusader
20 from Ship buff.

The only place the additional 30 could be coming from is my 3 paladin past lives.

Also the monk not being changed is is already listed as a bug.

[Cruxader]

1. The healing amp changes are a nice pivot on an old system and provide more flexibility and balance going forward- great job!

2. Why on earth nerf Holy Sword?? In case none of the Devs noticed, very few serious players were playing pallys as their primary character before the U23 Holy Sword improvements, (which was a nice bit of work, and very long overdue- thank you!).

Now after giving Pally's a taste of competitive play, they nerf it yet again back to mediocrity and thereby banish Pallys again to obscurity?? Everyone will simply HTR out of them yet again, is that the intention? Why not simply revert Holy Sword back to how it was originally implemented in U23- when it was well balanced and well thought out as originally designed! Its not like Pallys were OP just because of Holy Sword, give me a break, rather they were finally at long last *competitive* which is what you want in a balanced game, someone to play the role of Knight in Shining armor leading the charge, not just a watered down hate-tank that can't kill their way out of a wet paper bag as you seem intent on reverting them back to. Please change them back soon before everyone dumps their Pally builds (again).

[Scrabbler]

Now after giving Pally's a taste of competitive play, they nerf it yet again back to mediocrity and thereby banish Pallys again to obscurity?? Everyone will simply HTR out of them yet again, is that the intention?

What substantial nerf do you refer to?.

Why not simply revert Holy Sword back to how it was originally implemented in U23- when it was well balanced and well thought out as originally designed!

The U23 design was terrible and not anywhere close to balanced.
The U24 design is... also massively unbalanced, because it is barely any different.