Update 24 suggestions

[PsychoBlonde]

I want to get these in as early as possible, so here they are:

• This would be a great time to bring on some stuff for Barbarian, Druid, and Ranger. IMO Druid is the priority tree-wise simply because they don't have a 3rd tree yet, but perhaps it'd be better to do a multi-useful desert themed tree something like Harper that's most helpful for our beloved Primal classes. Or both. I have this great 3rd edition D&D book here called Sandstorm: Mastering the Perils of Fire and Sand. Scorpion Heritor (poisons) would be a great option, as would Walker in the Waste (Drains, a type of lich form, mummy and sand golem pets). Scorpion Heritor would make a great general tree (could do it as a Vulkoor thing, which would make it a lot like Harper) and Walker in the Waste would make a great Druid tree. Or perhaps something Wind oriented. One thing which could be cool for a high-level ability on Scorpion Heritor would be allowing us to drop a Poison spell ward (on a lengthy cooldown, of course). This would bring some CC in for classes like Barbarian or Ranger and be an interesting little twist.
• The quests: please don't make them like the godawful boring slog that is Wheloon and Storm Horns. I tried to like these quests, I really did, but they are so, so boring and tedious and filled with way too many goddamn mobs. In particular PLEASE PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF SENSE don't do another "defend this room until time runs out" quest. PLEASE. There are SO MANY of these in the game and they are SOOO SOOO BORING. And let's have some INTERESTING bosses instead of a huge wad of HP. I mean bosses like Deadheart (with his dancing club) or Gentleman Glin. Give us oddball stuff that keeps us on our toes instead of "here is a mountain of HP and Damage, beat it down for 10 minutes". And please don't stud the quests with "you must kill everything in this room to open this door" stuff. Please. Let's have some stealth objectives and puzzle objectives and alternate routes and stuff. I know we're probably stuck with Spell Wards because this is a Forgotten Realms pack and APPARENTLY those people are TOO LAZY to do REAL TRAPS.
• Please don't bring back the horribly annoying "I will run away and become invulnerable periodically" broke shadows from Wheloon etc. I realize this is more Netheril stuff but ugh, those are terrible mobs. If you must have them, make it useful in that you don't HAVE to chase EVERY LAST ONE of them down and kill them to progress. Make it more like "oh, running away? Now's the time for me to try to use this lev--*chomp*--DAMMIT!"
• Druid, Barbarian, and Ranger-friendly gear plz. Also some opportunities to use Wilderness Lore in the new pack would be very nice. I would love to see a survival-esque mechanic in the wilderness area where you keep getting a stacking debuff the longer you are out there: "dehydration" that you can clear by using a water source (make the rest shrines look like fountains or wells for neato factor). Make most of the water sources require you to make a Wilderness Lore check and hey, you have a nifty little attrition mechanic. If there are Shadowfell type sections, have a similar mechanic but using Arcane Lore instead.
• Apparently people hate pits full of spikes that they actually have to make some effort to avoid instead of just charging on through. So there should be like, 30 of these. At least. And all the good loot should be at the bottom. Okay, maybe not this one.

[Drathsiddh]

I want to get these in as early as possible, so here they are:

• This would be a great time to bring on some stuff for Barbarian, Druid, and Ranger. IMO Druid is the priority tree-wise simply because they don't have a 3rd tree yet, but perhaps it'd be better to do a multi-useful desert themed tree something like Harper that's most helpful for our beloved Primal classes. Or both. I have this great 3rd edition D&D book here called Sandstorm: Mastering the Perils of Fire and Sand. Scorpion Heritor (poisons) would be a great option, as would Walker in the Waste (Drains, a type of lich form, mummy and sand golem pets). Scorpion Heritor would make a great general tree (could do it as a Vulkoor thing, which would make it a lot like Harper) and Walker in the Waste would make a great Druid tree. Or perhaps something Wind oriented. One thing which could be cool for a high-level ability on Scorpion Heritor would be allowing us to drop a Poison spell ward (on a lengthy cooldown, of course). This would bring some CC in for classes like Barbarian or Ranger and be an interesting little twist.
• The quests: please don't make them like the godawful boring slog that is Wheloon and Storm Horns. I tried to like these quests, I really did, but they are so, so boring and tedious and filled with way too many goddamn mobs. In particular PLEASE PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF SENSE don't do another "defend this room until time runs out" quest. PLEASE. There are SO MANY of these in the game and they are SOOO SOOO BORING. And let's have some INTERESTING bosses instead of a huge wad of HP. I mean bosses like Deadheart (with his dancing club) or Gentleman Glin. Give us oddball stuff that keeps us on our toes instead of "here is a mountain of HP and Damage, beat it down for 10 minutes". And please don't stud the quests with "you must kill everything in this room to open this door" stuff. Please. Let's have some stealth objectives and puzzle objectives and alternate routes and stuff. I know we're probably stuck with Spell Wards because this is a Forgotten Realms pack and APPARENTLY those people are TOO LAZY to do REAL TRAPS.
• Please don't bring back the horribly annoying "I will run away and become invulnerable periodically" broke shadows from Wheloon etc. I realize this is more Netheril stuff but ugh, those are terrible mobs. If you must have them, make it useful in that you don't HAVE to chase EVERY LAST ONE of them down and kill them to progress. Make it more like "oh, running away? Now's the time for me to try to use this lev--*chomp*--DAMMIT!"
• Druid, Barbarian, and Ranger-friendly gear plz. Also some opportunities to use Wilderness Lore in the new pack would be very nice. I would love to see a survival-esque mechanic in the wilderness area where you keep getting a stacking debuff the longer you are out there: "dehydration" that you can clear by using a water source (make the rest shrines look like fountains or wells for neato factor). Make most of the water sources require you to make a Wilderness Lore check and hey, you have a nifty little attrition mechanic. If there are Shadowfell type sections, have a similar mechanic but using Arcane Lore instead.
• Apparently people hate pits full of spikes that they actually have to make some effort to avoid instead of just charging on through. So there should be like, 30 of these. At least. And all the good loot should be at the bottom. Okay, maybe not this one.

Agreed:
1: The barbarian overhaul is next, I believe, improving their Dr, better enhancement trees and all. Then comes rouge and then druid. Not sure about the latter.
2: I liked a couple of the quests for their original ideas, What Goes Up, Through the Mirror Darkly too name a few.
3: So many boss fights are the HP things that we need a change, there is no doubt on that.
4: I have suggested something like this, with lots of weird random encounters, volcanoes, earthquakes and all......Never thought about something like that though.
5: Well to be honest, I love the spike traps.........

I would IMHO like as many nerfs as possible, without them, there is nothing to talk about, and have a good bash over it. :P

[Cordovan]

I've been looking for a thread to let folks know about this, and this thread seems to fit just fine: We are planning to post up some feedback threads later this week on our plans for the Barbarian enhancement trees (Frenzied Berserker, Occult Slayer and Ravager.) When they are posted, we'd love to get your feedback on the ideas. Thanks!

[Forul]

I've been looking for a thread to let folks know about this, and this thread seems to fit just fine: We are planning to post up some feedback threads later this week on our plans for the Barbarian enhancement trees (Frenzied Berserker, Occult Slayer and Ravager.) When they are posted, we'd love to get your feedback on the ideas. Thanks!

Keep up the good work with the updates!

[Myrddinman]

I've been looking for a thread to let folks know about this, and this thread seems to fit just fine: We are planning to post up some feedback threads later this week on our plans for the Barbarian enhancement trees (Frenzied Berserker, Occult Slayer and Ravager.) When they are posted, we'd love to get your feedback on the ideas. Thanks!

Barbarians = great!

Care to comment on Severlin's new title as "Fighter/Barbarian/Designer"? Is there some hope for some Fighter love in U24?

[Vellrad]

If barbs won't be byoh, they will still be noob trap.

Anyway, I hope boss fights are finally going to be interesting.
Each boss must have special skills and abilities, otherwise, it can as well be removed from quest.

[edrein]

I want to get these in as early as possible, so here they are:

• This would be a great time to bring on some stuff for Barbarian, Druid, and Ranger. IMO Druid is the priority tree-wise simply because they don't have a 3rd tree yet, but perhaps it'd be better to do a multi-useful desert themed tree something like Harper that's most helpful for our beloved Primal classes. Or both. I have this great 3rd edition D&D book here called Sandstorm: Mastering the Perils of Fire and Sand. Scorpion Heritor (poisons) would be a great option, as would Walker in the Waste (Drains, a type of lich form, mummy and sand golem pets). Scorpion Heritor would make a great general tree (could do it as a Vulkoor thing, which would make it a lot like Harper) and Walker in the Waste would make a great Druid tree. Or perhaps something Wind oriented. One thing which could be cool for a high-level ability on Scorpion Heritor would be allowing us to drop a Poison spell ward (on a lengthy cooldown, of course). This would bring some CC in for classes like Barbarian or Ranger and be an interesting little twist.

An interesting choice, the Scorpion Heritor could indeed fit Eberron with Vulkoor being a deity, and it would indeed fit the memo of drow Rangers, Barbarians, and Shamans (druids). However, Walker in the Waste is very 'anti-druid'. While it could fit and work and would be an interesting choice, Druids abhor the undead and find them to be the ultimate abomination. As far as I'm aware from my years of pen and paper and reading D&D lore the only undead reasonably tolerated by any druid is a Baelnorn, which is an divine undead elf type from Forgotten Realms (perhaps other settings have them as well), and even then it is more of a veneration for the services of a Baelnorn than actually allowing such a creature to exist. This is due to Baelnorn's being typically of a good alignment, while most undead are evil based, especially liches. That being said, I'd love to see Walker in the Waste as a any-class Enhancement tree, I think like Baelnorn's they would have to be given the special rules toward some positive energy healing which in my eyes would possibly be 50% base, which can be modified by the upcoming possible changes to heal amp to normal 100% ranges, while also benefiting from 50% negative energy healing.

Actually if we could get some dev comments on a Walker in the Waste tree, I'd consider doing an enhancement write up. Hey Cordovan can we get a quick shown to the dev team deal going on?

[Scrabbler]

If barbs won't be byoh, they will still be noob trap.

The Barbarian class should be the one without any healing... it doesn't make sense if every single class has healing features. Instead, they should add affordable items (sold for plat) which can provide anyone with acceptable healing (within appropriate limits)

Scorpion Heritor (poisons) would be a great option,

It would be interesting to see a poison-themed alt tree, but first they'd need to fix existing player Poison features. Currently poison effects are available to Rogue, Barbarian, Drow, Cleric, and Wizard, but it's only Monk that actually has a working system for it.

[FuzzyDuck81]

The Barbarian class should be the one without any healing... it doesn't make sense if every single class has healing features. Instead, they should add affordable items (sold for plat) which can provide anyone with acceptable healing (within appropriate limits)

They've already said barbarians will be getting some healing amp, and i suspect they'll have more healing via vampiric-type effects (occult slayer has vampiric bond for temp hp, i expect something will be added to ravager though), so that's at least in keeping with the whole "i'm crazy & drinking the blood & gnawing on my enemies" aspect

[Angelic-council]

I know you guys planning to give barbarians a lot amp.. but, which class is next. FvS?

[SirValentine]

I know you guys planning to give barbarians a lot amp.. but, which class is next. FvS?

This was included in their survey results from the Balance thread:




Notice how first they overhauled Bards, then Paladins, and next up is Barbarians?

So one might guess they're eyeing Rogue, Fighter, and Cleric next, all being sub-3.0 on their power scale.

[mezzorco]

So one might guess they're eyeing Rogue, Fighter, and Cleric next, all being sub-3.0 on their power scale.

They somewhat worked on rogues, fighters and clerics too in U23.

Fighter: introduced Vanguard, adjusted Stalwart Defender, armor+shield pass
Cleric: armor+shield pass
Rogue: sneak attack scaling with melee power

I know they didn't focus on cleric and rogue, but I don't think they'll do it in the near future. Maybe just some tweaks together with barbarian pass, then they'll focus on ranged builds in general rather than a particular class.

[Vanhooger]

They somewhat worked on rogues, fighters and clerics too in U23.

Fighter: introduced Vanguard, adjusted Stalwart Defender, armor+shield pass
Cleric: armor+shield pass
Rogue: sneak attack scaling with melee power

I know they didn't focus on cleric and rogue, but I don't think they'll do it in the near future. Maybe just some tweaks together with barbarian pass, then they'll focus on ranged builds in general rather than a particular class.

Rogue got harper tree too, that is a very nice options for assassins

[Monkey-Boy]

This was included in their survey results from the Balance thread:




Notice how first they overhauled Bards, then Paladins, and next up is Barbarians?

So one might guess they're eyeing Rogue, Fighter, and Cleric next, all being sub-3.0 on their power scale.

They should update 2 classes per update, this way it'll be done before 2017

After barbarian the rest just need minor tweaks anyway, they weren't as bad off as bards and paladins were.

[Gloomfall]

Rogue needs a lot more than Sneak Attack scaling with Melee Power. At the moment it's far too situational for reliable damage. Comparing it to other classes that can far surpass Rogues in DPS.

At the moment the most popular Rogue mix is a 2 level splash for trapping/evasion.

Going deeper than that just for the sneak attack isn't quite that popular.

I like what they did with Paladin making 20 levels pure fairly powerful and rewarding rather than pushing emphasis on multi-class builds. I hope they continue that trend with Rogues and other classes in the game. I've got a full list of Rogue enhancements I'd love to see. If the Devs would ever like it feel free to reach out in PM on the forums!

[axel15810]

They've already said barbarians will be getting some healing amp, and i suspect they'll have more healing via vampiric-type effects (occult slayer has vampiric bond for temp hp, i expect something will be added to ravager though), so that's at least in keeping with the whole "i'm crazy & drinking the blood & gnawing on my enemies" aspect

What I'm hoping (and expecting) from the healing amp in barb trees statment is that barbs will continue to NOT have any self-healing and no casting abilities while raged - and in return will be compensated with by far the best melee DPS in the game - barb rage needs a significant buff. Also dodge, nice PRR and huge HP so they can stay alive in EE. The big heal amp will allow them to easily be healed from outside sources. Should give them nice synergy with divines.

Speaking as someone who primarily plays clerics, I think this game needs to see the classic triangle of group play become a viable playstyle again. Me and a lot of others are sick of this forced 100% BYOH environment all the time.

I'm not for nerfing BYOH, but BYOH should not be the only viable way to play the game. The classic triangle should not be forced on those who want to play a BYOH game, but it should be a viable option in DDO for those who want to play that way. Right now it just isn't viable as there is there is practically nothing to be gained by giving up self-healing on any toon - a buffed barb rage could finally be a reason to do so.

Giving barbs reliable self-healing or taking away the rage penalties would be a mistake as it would make them too much like fighters. Lets keep barbs unique. I want to see more class diversity in DDO, not just a slightly different version of a fighter.

[HuneyMunster]

Rogue needs a lot more than Sneak Attack scaling with Melee Power. At the moment it's far too situational for reliable damage. Comparing it to other classes that can far surpass Rogues in DPS.

At the moment the most popular Rogue mix is a 2 level splash for trapping/evasion.

Going deeper than that just for the sneak attack isn't quite that popular.

I like what they did with Paladin making 20 levels pure fairly powerful and rewarding rather than pushing emphasis on multi-class builds. I hope they continue that trend with Rogues and other classes in the game. I've got a full list of Rogue enhancements I'd love to see. If the Devs would ever like it feel free to reach out in PM on the forums!

Assassinate defiantly needs a fix. Currently you get instant agro on any mob that is too close to your target so can no longer double assassinate unless someone else has agro on them. Also if the monster knows of you presence but cannot see you they cannot be assassinated.

Assassins trick takes about 5 secs to cast making it fairly useless.

[Monkey-Boy]

Rogue needs a lot more than Sneak Attack scaling with Melee Power. At the moment it's far too situational for reliable damage. Comparing it to other classes that can far surpass Rogues in DPS.

Nonsense, get a deception item or two and it's almost a constant.

[Gloomfall]

Nonsense, get a deception item or two and it's almost a constant.

Go play a low level Rogue with deception items and then fight undead, see what happens.

[Gloomfall]

Assassinate defiantly needs a fix. Currently you get instant agro on any mob that is too close to your target so can no longer double assassinate unless someone else has agro on them. Also if the monster knows of you presence but cannot see you they cannot be assassinated.

Assassins trick takes about 5 secs to cast making it fairly useless.

I would love to have Assassin's Trick replaced with something akin to Exposing Strike from the Ranger DWS enhancement. Possibly with some slightly better crit multipliers or chances, or maybe make the initial attack count as a sneak attack as well.