Update 24 suggestions

[Monkey-Boy]

I would hope that would not be the order of class updates because that chart is not a very good representation of class power.

Fvs the 4th most powerful class? That's a joke.
Monk being the 2nd most powerful class? No. Monkchers are incredibly powerful, but that is not a very good indication of melee monks overall.

I was thinking the same thing, yes bards and paladins were the weakest but after that it's looking questionable. Artis more powerful than rangers?

But it is the result of a players survey, which is why it's always best to vote early and vote often.

[janave]

1. Improved game stability, the last hotfix, u23p1 pulled the last leg the client stood on

2. Barbarian and Fighter trees built so that 12+ levels of the class are increasingly attractive, as a viable alternative to multiclassing them.

2.1. Leave 1 tree open/class for more multiclassy oriented in both above classes.

3. Barbarian Occult Slayer should be effective from lvl6, increasingly more effective vs caster type mobs at the trade of less physical resistances. Consider adding stances similar to mediation of war, that have meaningful tradeoffs to balance attractive abilities.

4. Review loot to support the revised class trees.

5. Improve random loot, open up communication for both randgen and cannith crafting.

6. Fix some old features.

7. Add some storage space for everyone.

***
As an unrelated response, we casters can spam low sp 3-4-6-8 spells for crazy amounts of damage from range, often critting for 2k+, ranged, aoe, etc.. people who still think Fighters are DPS need to take a good journey thru the other classes, get some free metas on those low hanging SLAs, some randgen stick with high spell power, and rethink.

Fighter DPS is meager since it does not scale, everyone can produce big numbers when critting on helpless mobs using destiny clikies.

Heck, even Harper is a better melee tree than Fighter ones, at least it scales on every hit, not just criticals.

One day they need to stop buffing casters, and caster hybrids with pretty much any change they introduce....

[Ghlitch]

Go play a low level Rogue with deception items and then fight undead, see what happens.

Pick up precision as a feat. It allows you to crit practically everything including undead.

[Gloomfall]

Pick up precision as a feat. It allows you to crit practically everything including undead.

I've got precision. I'm on my 6th life as a Rogue and I find it harder and harder to justify getting the Rogue levels.

[Monkey-Boy]

As an unrelated response, we casters can spam low sp 3-4-6-8 spells for crazy amounts of damage from range, often critting for 2k+, ranged, aoe, etc.. people who still think Fighters are DPS need to take a good journey thru the other classes, get some free metas on those low hanging SLAs, some randgen stick with high spell power, and rethink.

Fighter DPS is meager since it does not scale, everyone can produce big numbers when critting on helpless mobs using destiny clikies.

Heck, even Harper is a better melee tree than Fighter ones, at least it scales on every hit, not just criticals.

One day they need to stop buffing casters, and caster hybrids with pretty much any change they introduce....

Does anyone agree with this assessment?

[Gloomfall]

Does anyone agree with this assessment?

I do.

[patang01]

Does anyone agree with this assessment?

Sounds about right, but the casters are what they are today because they're not limited by resources anymore. I hate spell drain features btw and things like intercession, but there has to be other way to limit or at least have casters be more careful with their resources.

[Monkey-Boy]

Sounds about right, but the casters are what they are today because they're not limited by resources anymore. I hate spell drain features btw and things like intercession, but there has to be other way to limit or at least have casters be more careful with their resources.

I don't agree, of course that's assuming people aren't chugging pots obtained questionably.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Does anyone agree with this assessment?

I used to agree with it. In heroic it's true. In epic hard it's true. In low level EE, it's also true. In high level EE, doing 2k damage on a crit to mobs that have 8k hp you suddenly don't feel so godmode. Then you see a hill giant with 400k hp and someone says up here there's a safe spot, so you all go up there and keep casting and keep casting. and 7 or 8 min later he finally dies, and you are out of sp with no shrine in sight.

Then you come back at some point on a melee dps, and the same fight takes about a min, and you say to yourself, oh that's what DPS means.

Rangers on the other hand would finish that fight in 20 seconds, because they have such high burst dps. But all those 8k hp mobs take much longer to finish, because you end up saving the burst DPS for a worthy target.

[Inoukchuk]

What I'm hoping (and expecting) from the healing amp in barb trees statment is that barbs will continue to NOT have any self-healing and no casting abilities while raged - and in return will be compensated with by far the best melee DPS in the game - barb rage needs a significant buff. Also dodge, nice PRR and huge HP so they can stay alive in EE. The big heal amp will allow them to easily be healed from outside sources. Should give them nice synergy with divines.

Speaking as someone who primarily plays clerics, I think this game needs to see the classic triangle of group play become a viable playstyle again. Me and a lot of others are sick of this forced 100% BYOH environment all the time.

I'm not for nerfing BYOH, but BYOH should not be the only viable way to play the game. The classic triangle should not be forced on those who want to play a BYOH game, but it should be a viable option in DDO for those who want to play that way. Right now it just isn't viable as there is there is practically nothing to be gained by giving up self-healing on any toon - a buffed barb rage could finally be a reason to do so.

Giving barbs reliable self-healing or taking away the rage penalties would be a mistake as it would make them too much like fighters. Lets keep barbs unique. I want to see more class diversity in DDO, not just a slightly different version of a fighter.

Realistically a barbarian is just a fighter without any actual training, and barbarian bodies littered historical battlefields like popcorn. So really I'm fine with them sucking, as I always disliked the class from a lore perspective and see no need for it in the game. It exists primarily because of Conan as far as I can tell.

That said, there is no game-mechanic inspiration to play the class either right now. Making armor better put them even further behind I think. They'll need some love if they're going to be playable. I'm just not sure what kind of love at this point.

[Arlathen]

He's actually had that title since he joined the DDO team. I wouldn't read too much into it. U24 will focus on the Barbarian, in regard to class updates.

Is there any news on if Rangers will get a look? We (gratefully, I might add) had some polish to two melee abilities with U23, but they could definitely do with a 'once over'......

[Gloomfall]

Realistically a barbarian is just a fighter without any actual training, and barbarian bodies littered historical battlefields like popcorn. So really I'm fine with them sucking, as I always disliked the class from a lore perspective and see no need for it in the game. It exists primarily because of Conan as far as I can tell.

That said, there is no game-mechanic inspiration to play the class either right now. Making armor better put them even further behind I think. They'll need some love if they're going to be playable. I'm just not sure what kind of love at this point.

Realistically Paladin and Cleric prayers went unanswered and anyone who attempted to "Cast a spell" on the battlefield was just seen as crazy. Battlefields were littered with their corpses too. Thankfully we're playing a fantasy game that isn't based on real world history.

[Oxarhamar]

I would hope that would not be the order of class updates because that chart is not a very good representation of class power.

Fvs the 4th most powerful class? That's a joke.
Monk being the 2nd most powerful class? No. Monkchers are incredibly powerful, but that is not a very good indication of melee monks overall.

That chart is a result of player feedback in the survey.

You have to remember that at the time of the survey 2Monk splash was extremely popular, considered OP and hated by many on the forums. The results reflect those opinions.

[Inoukchuk]

Realistically Paladin and Cleric prayers went unanswered and anyone who attempted to "Cast a spell" on the battlefield was just seen as crazy. Battlefields were littered with their corpses too. Thankfully we're playing a fantasy game that isn't based on real world history.

Fair enough...

I just never saw a need for a barbarian class. Who asked the question "if we made a fighter illiterate, impulsive, and untrained, what upside would he get?" and then decided this was significantly different than accomplishing the same thing with feats as a fighter? But....it's old school and for some reason I fail to comprehend people like playing it (okay, I do comprehend it, I just don't like calling people I don't know munchkin gamers).

[PuppiesAndRainbows]

1. Finish the airship changes/fixes (three finger Thads needs a jewelry broker) I wish there was a gift shop like the one in Ataraxia's Havenn in Thads.

2. Update Reaver's Refuge Prey on the Hunter so that if the dragon dies it is only a lost of XP, and not a quest failure. Take timer off Stealer of Souls.

3. Some sort of lighting. I'm still bummed about losing Archon light.

4. A follow option for players and mules. If a hireling can follow so can a client.

5. Different top decks for airships. The smaller ships top decks are easier/faster to move around on.

6. Some way to save appearance settings and quick bar assignments when TR or LR.

7. Bring back the fun Update 14 Weapon prefixes/suffixes.

8. Do something about the unique items that don't stack and clutter up inventory. Like with Reaver's Refuge - some items go into bags, others do not. No clear rhyme or reason as to why some items going into bags and others into inventory.

9. Something to entice new players to try the game.

[Oxarhamar]

Realistically a barbarian is just a fighter without any actual training, and barbarian bodies littered historical battlefields like popcorn. So really I'm fine with them sucking, as I always disliked the class from a lore perspective and see no need for it in the game. It exists primarily because of Conan as far as I can tell.

That said, there is no game-mechanic inspiration to play the class either right now. Making armor better put them even further behind I think. They'll need some love if they're going to be playable. I'm just not sure what kind of love at this point.

historically speaking Barbarians was just a term used to describe those raiders outside the Roman Empire

The Gauls, Visigoths, Franks, Saxons, etc... to say they were untrained is inaccurate while they likely had less org ibises training than the Roman Army.


Still Historicly speaking DnD Barbarians are more closely based on Viking Berzerkrrs who had much training in thier clans where some duels could lead to death of both combatants. berzerkers would go into battle with no Armor working themselves into a trance live frenzy before battle some times cutting themselves.

[Oxarhamar]

9. Something to entice new players to try the game.

First they would need to know the game even ex sister which means adverts (not just being featured on MMO blogs from time to time.

Warner Brothers owns Turbine now don't see why there are no commercials for any games on thier channels. It seams like it would be self severely to advert a company you own.

[Dagolar]

Realistically a barbarian is just a fighter without any actual training, and barbarian bodies littered historical battlefields like popcorn. So really I'm fine with them sucking, as I always disliked the class from a lore perspective and see no need for it in the game. It exists primarily because of Conan as far as I can tell.
.

This is false. Barbarians [in D&D] are generally based on the Gallic Tribes of Western Europe, down to the animism belief structure. These tribes were 'feared and respected' by the Roman Empire.

Other notable historic barbarians include:
Mongols.
Huns.
Vikings.


Even Gladiators often fall under the umbrella of 'Barbarian', despite having often having sophisticated combat techniques, due to their rough manner of combat.


Furthermore, you're incorrect about the assumption that barbarians were incapable fighters.

Barbarians typically could out-fight any knight or common soldier [a benefit of being raised in a society dedicated to combat], and were feared for their ability to do so [this far most notably for Vikings- though given that Vikings generally targeted villagers, it's sort of an unreliable element. (They were at least capable enough to claim Normandy, at least). Luckily, in the fiction of D&D, we can assume reality without having to worry about how much historically was just stories to generate fear].

What they LACKED was a grasp of overall military tactics, and the superior command structure of organized warfare was what caused them to fail time and again.


Later on, advancements in military technology also aided organized warfare against barbarians.

But in terms of raw combat ability, a barbarian generally could overtake a single cultured combatant [and, while the overall scope of wars favored the cultured- whom, naturally, further colored the events to their favor- there are numerous individual battles that emphasize the battle force superiority of barbarians].

D&D does a reasonable job of expressing this, through barbarians shrugging off damage with a grin and emphasizing ferocity, and having more hit points as a representation of their development in a warrior culture.
Meanwhile fighters benefit from technology [better armor, etc] and combat tactics [far more so in PnP], and even the ability to 'master' individual combat styles, as a representation of how culture can benefit such developments.


You can HATE barbarians all you want, there's no reason to stop you.
At the moment, however, you're doing it under a false premise.

[Scrabbler]

This is false. Barbarians [in D&D] are generally based on the Gallic Tribes of Western Europe, down to the animism belief structure. These tribes were 'feared and respected' by the Roman Empire.

Sorry, nope. The Barbarian character class was added to AD&D in the 1980s Unearthed Arcana, and it was undeniably derived from Conan, all the way down to refusing to join parties with a Wizard and bypassing creature DR without needing a magic weapon.

There is no "animism belief structure" in either the current or past D&D Barbarian class.

[Dagolar]

Sorry, nope. The Barbarian character class was added to AD&D in the 1980s Unearthed Arcana, and it was undeniably derived from Conan, all the way down to refusing to join parties with a Wizard and bypassing creature DR without needing a magic weapon.

There is no "animism belief structure" in either the current or past D&D Barbarian class.

I played with the original Unearthed Arcana, and you're accurate about that.
But those barbarians also 'ate magic', among other things.

Those barbarians are rather different from later versions.

And while the player handbook doesn't address the animism, many of their prestige classes- and most of the novels related to barbarians in the Forgotten Realms- directly address it.

Given that DDO uses 3.5 barbarians, I decided to address that perspective, rather than one from the 1980s.

Sorry :X


I do miss being able to eat magic items, though..


[Of course, then there's the Dark Sun setting barbarian cannibal halflings, if you want to go to yet another perspective on barbarians.
Likewise, most barbarians in Eberron are hallings from the Talenta plains (who ride dinosaurs, btw).
Neither of those have any real bearing on DDO barbarians (or the perspective against historic barbarians that was presented), which is why, again, I didn't reference them.]