Buidl Request: 1st life Elven Tempest Bard with Trapper skills, viable?

[Calenglir]

Hi guys, pretty new to the game, got a level 6 elven bard based on the Count of Monte Cristo (it was the closest thing to a Bladesinger) and I was hoping to recreate a character I had back in my NWN PW days: a Wood Elf Ranger/Bard/Harper Agent. Obviously the iteration for DDO would be way different but I'm looking to get as close as possible.... basically, must-have are stealth, bard buffing and TWF (willing to give archer a try too), trapper skills would be nice, but not having UMD would hurt so I'm willing to give that up. Any way to make it viable, at least for friendly guild member endgame?

And oh, not to further make this harder but 28-pt build is all I have working for me.... so you know...

Any help is appreciated!

[Emizand]

Hi guys, pretty new to the game, got a level 6 elven bard based on the Count of Monte Cristo (it was the closest thing to a Bladesinger) and I was hoping to recreate a character I had back in my NWN PW days: a Wood Elf Ranger/Bard/Harper Agent. Obviously the iteration for DDO would be way different but I'm looking to get as close as possible.... basically, must-have are stealth, bard buffing and TWF (willing to give archer a try too), trapper skills would be nice, but not having UMD would hurt so I'm willing to give that up. Any way to make it viable, at least for friendly guild member endgame?

And oh, not to further make this harder but 28-pt build is all I have working for me.... so you know...

Any help is appreciated!

Count of monte cristo build is a swashbuckler. Single weapon fighting style. Range is two weapon fighting style. So, can you see where this is going?

I would sugest you could make a bard/ranger rogue build. Would want 2 rogue for evasion and maybe 6 ranger for two weapon fighting and improved twf, tou would need to take gtwf as a feat with a dex requirement of 17 (i think), which wpould leave you 12 lvls of bard.

So yes it would be possible to build what you want, but would be tght on build points as you would need to invest in int for ap's, dex for GTWF, con for health, str for obvious reasons and need a nod towards cha. this would be tight on a 32 point build and even tighter, if possible at all, on 28 point build.

You couldnt do this with the ount of monte cristo and would need to take first lvl as a rogue.

Sorry was at a wedding last night and feeling a tad delicate at the moment, am sure others will come along and offer beter insight.

Happy hunting

Emi

[Calenglir]

Count of monte cristo build is a swashbuckler. Single weapon fighting style. Range is two weapon fighting style. So, can you see where this is going?

I would sugest you could make a bard/ranger rogue build. Would want 2 rogue for evasion and maybe 6 ranger for two weapon fighting and improved twf, tou would need to take gtwf as a feat with a dex requirement of 17 (i think), which wpould leave you 12 lvls of bard.

So yes it would be possible to build what you want, but would be tght on build points as you would need to invest in int for ap's, dex for GTWF, con for health, str for obvious reasons and need a nod towards cha. this would be tight on a 32 point build and even tighter, if possible at all, on 28 point build.

You couldnt do this with the ount of monte cristo and would need to take first lvl as a rogue.

Sorry was at a wedding last night and feeling a tad delicate at the moment, am sure others will come along and offer beter insight.

Happy hunting

Emi

No actually, I should apologize. I'm currently playing a Monte Cristo build... I plan on creating a new toon with the criteria I laid out... should've been clearer with that sorry :P

[Seikojin]

Whenever I make a build, the first question I answer is: What difficulty do I want this guy to play in?
If you are looking epic elite, I would suggest a few lifes ground out. This will give you gear and past lives that really help.

If you just want to play; 12/6/2 Bard/ranger/rogue will work fine.

With 28 points, you will want a 14 in int and cha. If you can manage it, 14 in con too. Then dex next, all levelups into dex. You will not be a crowd controller with spells. Just some songs. Buy the harper tree.

Why int @ 14? I don't recall the base skillpoints per level, but when doing all the non rogue levels, you will need double the points to raise disable device, open locks, and most of the time double points for search (bard) and umd (ranger).

Why cha @ 14? Bardly duties. LOL Spells mainly. Sp. Some dc's.

Skill dominance: perform, disable device, umd, search, and open lock. Heal will help with self healing spells, but you generally wont have enough points to get it to 20+. Also jump is very useful since bards and I think rangers, don't get that spell, and consumable items only offer +10, and finding a best in slot item with jump is neigh impossible.

Level progression: Rogue/rogue/Ranger/Ranger/Ranger/Ranger/Ranger/Ranger/Bard remaining. Why bard last? Well you can pull ranger/rogue twf really well to level 8, then from there, the work of getting to 20 starts and having all the utility buildup being done in bard helps at that time. Anytime before and you will feel melee weak.

Now trees and enhancements. I would take tempest from ranger and plan to get its tier 5's. You can use them frequently enough that they are vital for epic hard survival and even heroic elite dominance. While working towards bard, put some points in Harper to get some utility from it (+1 to skills and +1 melee/ranged power). When you start digging into bard, get anything from swash that does not require you to be swashbuckling. Most of the perks you will take will be from warchanter though. Passive buffs, dr buffs, etc.

All in all, you would be fine for most, if not all heroic content, and be pretty solid to work in epic hard content as well.

[Calenglir]

Whenever I make a build, the first question I answer is: What difficulty do I want this guy to play in?
If you are looking epic elite, I would suggest a few lifes ground out. This will give you gear and past lives that really help.

If you just want to play; 12/6/2 Bard/ranger/rogue will work fine.

With 28 points, you will want a 14 in int and cha. If you can manage it, 14 in con too. Then dex next, all levelups into dex. You will not be a crowd controller with spells. Just some songs. Buy the harper tree.

Why int @ 14? I don't recall the base skillpoints per level, but when doing all the non rogue levels, you will need double the points to raise disable device, open locks, and most of the time double points for search (bard) and umd (ranger).

Why cha @ 14? Bardly duties. LOL Spells mainly. Sp. Some dc's.

Skill dominance: perform, disable device, umd, search, and open lock. Heal will help with self healing spells, but you generally wont have enough points to get it to 20+. Also jump is very useful since bards and I think rangers, don't get that spell, and consumable items only offer +10, and finding a best in slot item with jump is neigh impossible.

Level progression: Rogue/rogue/Ranger/Ranger/Ranger/Ranger/Ranger/Ranger/Bard remaining. Why bard last? Well you can pull ranger/rogue twf really well to level 8, then from there, the work of getting to 20 starts and having all the utility buildup being done in bard helps at that time. Anytime before and you will feel melee weak.

Now trees and enhancements. I would take tempest from ranger and plan to get its tier 5's. You can use them frequently enough that they are vital for epic hard survival and even heroic elite dominance. While working towards bard, put some points in Harper to get some utility from it (+1 to skills and +1 melee/ranged power). When you start digging into bard, get anything from swash that does not require you to be swashbuckling. Most of the perks you will take will be from warchanter though. Passive buffs, dr buffs, etc.

All in all, you would be fine for most, if not all heroic content, and be pretty solid to work in epic hard content as well.

Wow, thanks, this looks solid!

[unbongwah]

I sense a great disturbance in the forums, as if someone had lit the Gimp Build Signal...

a Wood Elf Ranger/Bard/Harper Agent. Obviously the iteration for DDO would be way different but I'm looking to get as close as possible.... basically, must-have are stealth, bard buffing and TWF (willing to give archer a try too), trapper skills would be nice, but not having UMD would hurt so I'm willing to give that up.

I can do that; and for extra gimp factor I can go DEX-based w/out tomes!

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 28 True Neutral Elf Female
(1 Rogue \ 12 Ranger \ 7 Bard \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 292
Spell Points: 540 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 23
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             11                    11
Dexterity            19                    26
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               8                    20
Bluff                -1                     7
Concentration         1                    32
Diplomacy            -1                     7
Disable Device        6                    32
Haggle               -1                     7
Heal                 -1                     7
Hide                  8                    25
Intimidate           -1                     7
Jump                  4                    12
Listen               -1                     9
Move Silently         8                    24
Open Lock             8                    20
Perform              n/a                   30
Repair                2                    10
Search                6                    35
Spellcraft            2                    10
Spot                  3                    22
Swim                  0                     8
Tumble                8                    20
Use Magic Device      3                    30

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Perform (+8)


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Perform (+8)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Enchantment Lore (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Greater Dragonmark of Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Grace (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Skill (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Graceful Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Deflect Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Bleed Them Out (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Bleed Them Out (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Bleed Them Out (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Elaborate Parry (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Elaborate Parry (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Elaborate Parry (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Evasive Dance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Evasive Dance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Evasive Dance (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Dance of Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Dance of Death (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Dance of Death (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Corrosive Arrows (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Watchful Eye


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: First Blood

Build features:

• DEX to dmg from Aerenal Grace
• Full Shadow DM line - partly for flavor, partly for something to spend APs on to unlock higher-tier Aerenal enhs, partly to save SPs and get Displacement ASAP (since I backload the bard lvls)
• TWF w/rapiers - 100% offhand procs from Tempest, Dance of Death, Evasive Dance
• Full set of ranged feats, inc. Combat Archery
• not listed: Know the Angles provides INT-to-dmg bonus (set aside 8 APs for it)
• Max skills: UMD, Concentration, Perform, Search, and Disable; 13 ranks of Spot; 8 ranks of Move Silently

I started STR 11 so you have the option of adding Power Atk after taking a +2 STR tome. [Rage effects disable Precision, which means it doesn't play nice with FotW if you choose to make it your primary ED.] That would require some feat rearrangement, though.

Truth be told, in the long run STR-based rather than DEX-based would make more sense; it saves a bunch of APs from the elf tree to spend elsewhere. But all new chars get a free LR +0, so it's easy enough to switch someday.

[Calenglir]

I'm guessing the Tempest enhancement to make scimitars finessable doesn't work with the elven grace? Or is it redundant with Graceful Death? Maybe I can skip Valenar/Aerenal and use kukris?

[Mercureal]

You don't need Elven enhancements to get Dex to-hit and damage with scimitars, the Tempest level 3 and level 6 cores give you that. If you want to use scimitars you still get value from using the Elf enhancements, as you can get an additional +4 to hit and damage.

[Calenglir]

You don't need Elven enhancements to get Dex to-hit and damage with scimitars, the Tempest level 3 and level 6 cores give you that. If you want to use scimitars you still get value from using the Elf enhancements, as you can get an additional +4 to hit and damage.

Ah yes, but Tempest enhnacements also give dex damage correct? So theoretically, I can use any finesseable weapon, get the Weapon Finesse feat and not worry about getting elven racial enhancements correct? Like daggers, short swords or kukris?

[Emizand]

Valenar Grace: You may use Dexterity to determine the damage you deal with Scimitars, Falchions, and Shortbows.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 15 Requires: Elven_Weapon_Training IV

Its expensive, but take scimmie route and you can get dex for damage with shortbows.


Would prob have to ditch elf dragonmark for AP's.

Nice as always Unb. Have played a dex built dagger wielding halfling with 5 rog, 3 pal and 12 ranger. It can work and not as gimped as gimpy McGimp from the isle of gimpedness.

[unbongwah]

I'm guessing the Tempest enhancement to make scimitars finessable doesn't work with the elven grace? Or is it redundant with Graceful Death? Maybe I can skip Valenar/Aerenal and use kukris?

The purpose of Aerenal Grace on my build is to get DEX-to-dmg with rapiers, longswords, and longbows; in particular, Aerenal Grace is currently the only way to get DEX to dmg with longbows. [Why Turbine didn't add a DEX-to-ranged-dmg enhancement to AA or DWS when they redid the PrEs is beyond me, but so it goes.] Note that if you want DEX to-hit with rapiers as well, you need to take Finesse feat; but with Precision & bard buffs, I wouldn't worry about it.

EDIT: when you get to lvl 20, you may prefer to use a pair of Oathblades rather than rapiers, since it has the same crit specs as a rapier or scimitar while benefiting from Aerenal Grace. Plus it's keen, so you don't even need to swap out IC:Pierce.

And yes, Tempest lvl 3 & 6 cores already give you DEX to-hit & dmg with all light weapons plus scimitars, so you can use those instead; although there's not really an incentive to do so, considering Aerenal enhs provide +4 to-hit & dmg to rapiers.

Its expensive, but take scimmie route and you can get dex for damage with shortbows.

The problem is there aren't any good named shortbows, whereas there are a ton of named longbows (Silver bow, Bow of Sinew, Pinion, etc.). Since Aerenal wins by default on a DEX-based archer.

[Emizand]

The purpose of Aerenal Grace on my build is to get DEX-to-dmg with rapiers, longswords, and longbows; in particular, Aerenal Grace is currently the only way to get DEX to dmg with longbows. [Why Turbine didn't add a DEX-to-ranged-dmg enhancement to AA or DWS when they redid the PrEs is beyond me, but so it goes.] Note that if you want DEX to-hit with rapiers as well, you need to take Finesse feat; but with Precision & bard buffs, I wouldn't worry about it.

EDIT: when you get to lvl 20, you may prefer to use a pair of Oathblades rather than rapiers, since it has the same crit specs as a rapier or scimitar while benefiting from Aerenal Grace. Plus it's keen, so you don't even need to swap out IC:Pierce.

And yes, Tempest lvl 3 & 6 cores already give you DEX to-hit & dmg with all light weapons plus scimitars, so you can use those instead; although there's not really an incentive to do so, considering Aerenal enhs provide +4 to-hit & dmg to rapiers.

The problem is there aren't any good named shortbows, whereas there are a ton of named longbows (Silver bow, Bow of Sinew, Pinion, etc.). Since Aerenal wins by default on a DEX-based archer.

Rapiers are not light weapons, so if dual weilding you will get a larger penalty than dualing Scim's. Depend it comes down to if you are going to range mostly with some melee support Aerenal may be best, if mostly melee with bow as and when needed maybe the other route. Comes to personal choice i suppose and the fact my rogue is a rapier short sword dual wieleder pushed me to scims. ;-)