Steel Shrine

[BigErkyKid]

I'm testing a build that doesn't require PDK. Starting stats are 16 Str /12 Dex /16 Con /10 Int /8 Wis /14 Cha. All levelups in Strength. I'm seeing crits in the 2500 range on my 15-20/x5 heavy pick.

Human will do just fine if you go Strength. PDK is only for divine grace junkies. I'm actually liking strength build more than charisma. The DPS is very nice.

Heavy pick is tasty, but basically outperformed by a khopesh.

Comparison

Without crit effects it is a wash. Now if you add on crit effects clearly khopesh wins.

[Infiltraitor]

Heavy pick is tasty, but basically outperformed by a khopesh.

Comparison

Without crit effects it is a wash. Now if you add on crit effects clearly khopesh wins.

I could be wrong, but Khopesh only gains me about 5 slashing damage and 3 bleeding damage per hit.

Heavy Pick profile is:
2-14/x1 and 15-20/x5.
13 regular hits per 20
6 x5 hits per 20.
13 + 30 = 43


Khopesh profile is:
2-12/x1 and 13-20/x4
11 regular hits per 20
8 x4 hits per 20.
11 + 32 = 43

43 vs 43.

Khopesh has the 5.5[1d8] damage dice while Heavy Pick has 5.5[1d6] damage dice.
The 5 extra slashing damage and 2 extra procs of Dragon's Edge seems like a big deal, until you consider the extra feat cost for khopesh.

Not only do I have to spend an extra feat, but I have to use improved critical: slashing. It leaves me unable to instantly swap a Celestia shortsword for DR bypass. That's a deal breaker for EE Mark of Death or anything with undead in it. And there is a bunch of undead in current endgame.

Regardless, thank you for pointing that out. Khopesh does do about 5% more damage.

[BigErkyKid]

I could be wrong, but Khopesh only gains me about 5 slashing damage and 3 bleeding damage per hit.

Heavy Pick profile is:
2-14/x1 and 15-20/x5.
13 regular hits per 20
6 x5 hits per 20.
13 + 30 = 43


Khopesh profile is:
2-12/x1 and 13-20/x4
11 regular hits per 20
8 x4 hits per 20.
11 + 32 = 43

43 vs 43.

Khopesh has the 5.5[1d8] damage dice while Heavy Pick has 5.5[1d6] damage dice.
The 5 extra slashing damage and 2 extra procs of Dragon's Edge seems like a big deal, until you consider the extra feat cost for khopesh.

Not only do I have to spend an extra feat, but I have to use improved critical: slashing. It leaves me unable to instantly swap a Celestia shortsword for DR bypass. That's a deal breaker for EE Mark of Death or anything with undead in it. And there is a bunch of undead in current endgame.

Regardless, thank you for pointing that out. Khopesh does do about 5% more damage.

I had both khopesh and IC:blunt in my vanguard for DR reasons.

Here I attach the comparison for both, including only dragon's edge (if you got crippling or what not it will also favor khopesh)

Take out the extra threat with DC and you end up with this comparison:

Comparison 2

So the pick falls behind enormously.

Now if you go back to DC, this is the comparison:

New comparison

[Infiltraitor]

I had both khopesh and IC:blunt in my vanguard for DR reasons.

Here I attach the comparison for both, including only dragon's edge (if you got crippling or what not it will also favor khopesh)

Take out the extra threat with DC and you end up with this comparison:

Comparison 2

So the pick falls behind enormously.

Now if you go back to DC, this is the comparison:

New comparison

To start, that chart says I should be doing ~200 dmg per hit and ~350 damage per crit. To which I must protest, I have screenshots of 3000+ damage crits. I'm not nearly as gimped as that chart says that I am.

Secondly, I would never run outside of Divine Crusader except in heroic levels. So I would always be using that extra critical threat range because this is a crit-heavy build.

The crit profile is the same. 15-20/x5 does the same damage over 20 hits as 13-20/x4, which I proved in my previous post.

Here as a more accurate picture of my unboosted damage.

More Accurate Calculation
*Not counting ~24% doublestrike and 61% melee power.

As you can see, it barely amounts to 7%. Far less when I factor in overwhelming critical. It really does come to about 5% extra dps, to which I must decline. Losing the option of using Celestia is a deal breaker.

[BigErkyKid]

To start, that chart says I should be doing ~200 dmg per hit and ~350 damage per crit. To which I must protest, I have screenshots of 3000+ damage crits. I'm not nearly as gimped as that chart says that I am.

Secondly, I would never run outside of Divine Crusader except in heroic levels. So I would always be using that extra critical threat range because this is a crit-heavy build.

The crit profile is the same. 15-20/x5 does the same damage over 20 hits as 13-20/x4, which I proved in my previous post.

Here as a more accurate picture of my unboosted damage.

More Accurate Calculation
*Not counting ~24% doublestrike and 61% melee power.

As you can see, it barely amounts to 7%. Far less when I factor in overwhelming critical. It really does come to about 5% extra dps, to which I must decline. Losing the option of using Celestia is a deal breaker.

Hi! Well first of all, we have already established that ceteris paribus the extra crit range of the khopesh is exactly compensated, in terms of raw damage, by the larger multiplier of the pick. Nothing to argue.

The issue is that, similarly to the comparisons falchion vs gaxe, TF have very rich on crit effects. From dragon;s edge to crippling flames, those on crit effects favor, duh, weapons with more crits. How much of a difference will depend on how many effects do you have. With dragon s edge, you say it is 5%. You could easily add crippling flames and check.

So if you ever use a non mortal fear tier 3 on your pick you are going to be doing far less DPS than on a khopesh. Those are the raw numbers, if you are completely tied to the pick for whatever other reason, that is obviously your call.

The build looks quite fun. I was wanted to comment on this detail.

[Infiltraitor]

Hi! Well first of all, we have already established that ceteris paribus the extra crit range of the khopesh is exactly compensated, in terms of raw damage, by the larger multiplier of the pick. Nothing to argue.

The issue is that, similarly to the comparisons falchion vs gaxe, TF have very rich on crit effects. From dragon;s edge to crippling flames, those on crit effects favor, duh, weapons with more crits. How much of a difference will depend on how many effects do you have. With dragon s edge, you say it is 5%. You could easily add crippling flames and check.

So if you ever use a non mortal fear tier 3 on your pick you are going to be doing far less DPS than on a khopesh. Those are the raw numbers, if you are completely tied to the pick for whatever other reason, that is obviously your call.

The build looks quite fun. I was wanted to comment on this detail.

You are correct about the extra crit effects that do not scale with crit multiplier.
1) Dragon's Edge does about 3 more bleed damage on a khopesh, but I have it on my offhand and my mainhand 2nd tier has the option of being a purple augment.
2) Crippling Flames will deal 23 more fire damage per hit on a Khopesh than a Pick
3) Seeker will deal 1 more damage per hit on a Khopesh than a Pick

But it isn't about the 27 extra damage per hit. The deal breaker here is Celestia, Brightest Star of Day. She bypasses any DR and does twice as much DPS as any other weapon when running EE MoD. The heavy pick setup allows me to instantly swap to Celestia in any situation and bypass DR. You are going to have to trust me on this one.

[BigErkyKid]

You are going to have to trust me on this one.

I trust you. You are basically saying that the on crit effects from TF are not really worth it :P

They are so not worth it that you prefer to stack 2 toughness instead of taking the feats for khopeshes.

Anyway, it looks like an interesting build. You are the same person from the uber healing wolf, aren't you?

[Infiltraitor]

Second Overhaul complete

Changes: More enhancements in Sacred Defender, Less enhancements in Harper, Swapped Optics with Mentau Goggles for 12 Seeker.
Net Result: 20% More Dps, 30 More PRR and MRR, 19 more AC, 1 more Fort, Reflex, and Will.

Thanks to my guildies in Omnipresence being unknowing guinea pigs for my field tests.

You are the same person from the uber healing wolf, aren't you?

Yes. Weird builds is my thing.

They are so not worth it that you prefer to stack 2 toughness instead of taking the feats for khopeshes.

Actually, it is looking like I might drop 1 monk level and its corresponding feat for another paladin level so I can grab zeal for an extra 6% DPS. I'm getting dangerously close to 4000* DPS.

*Quad Boosted with full stacks of vulnerability

[Eth]

Any reason why you took 2 toughness feats?

What about feats like Quicken, Empower Healing (free 75 spellpower for cocoon) or Power Attack (for quest where fort bypass is irrelevant)?

[Infiltraitor]

Any reason why you took 2 toughness feats?

No reason, actually. It's leftover from a previous setup when I was using bastard swords. I'm considering grabbing an extra paladin level for zeal. I'm literally starting to foam at the mouth at the possibility of bursting to 4k dps for short durations.

Think I'll need to swap it out for Student of the Sword. The extra 1% dodge and AC and +2 intim. A little bit more DPS doesn't matter as much as being slightly more indestructible.

What about feats like Quicken, Empower Healing (free 75 spellpower for cocoon) or Power Attack (for quest where fort bypass is irrelevant)?

Most of my healing is from AOE abilities such as Consecration or Ameliorating Strike. As for Power Attack, I like Precision's 5% hit bonus far too much.

Edit: Also Thanks for BigErkyKid for pestering me about that toughness feat.

[Eth]

No reason, actually. It's leftover from a previous setup when I was using bastard swords. I'm considering grabbing an extra paladin level for zeal. I'm literally starting to foam at the mouth at the possibility of bursting to 4k dps for short durations.

Think I'll need to swap it out for Student of the Sword. The extra 1% dodge and AC and +2 intim. A little bit more DPS doesn't matter as much as being slightly more indestructible.

Edit: Also Thanks for BigErkyKid for pestering me about that toughness feat.

Right, going 15 pally is probably the best choice then. 10% Doublestrike, hell yes. What exactly is the purpose of 2 monk? Just the 2 feats or do you swap to light armor for evasion when necessary?
If you change to 15/4/1 I'd really suggest swapping to 1 fighter lvl instead of 1 monk.
Free 4 AP somewhere, pick up fighter haste boost, drop the Haste Boost Twist and take Grim Precision or Sense Weakness.

[Infiltraitor]

Right, going 15 pally is probably the best choice then. 10% Doublestrike, hell yes. What exactly is the purpose of 2 monk? Just the 2 feats or do you swap to light armor for evasion when necessary?
If you change to 15/4/1 I'd really suggest swapping to 1 fighter lvl instead of 1 monk.
Free 4 AP somewhere, pick up fighter haste boost, drop the Haste Boost Twist and take Grim Precision or Sense Weakness.

I swap for evasion once in a while.

Mostly, 2 feats, 3 saves, 10 devotion, 5 healing amp. My reflex saves are just high enough now that I save on Lady Vol's 1600 dmg breath attacks and only take 800 whenever I tank her.
I would lose that if I went fighter.

[Skavenaps]

hey,

I'm playing a similar build from sometime now. Mine is dragon knight 15 pal/4 FvS/1 fighter.
Self healing is a bit worst cause the HA difference, but my PPT and MPT is higher.

My feats are something like

PA,Cleave,GC, Bastard, ISB, SM, ISM, IC:Slashing, Empo Heal, Completionist, OC and THF
(I don't dig deep into CK, only for the 2 first core for the extra light dmg).

Most points are spend into Vanguard for pew pew, enuff into warpriest for AS, some into SD for the 20% extra hp.

Also, im always with holy sword and zeal as lvl 4 pal spells (lvl 15 is 2 slots)

Im pretty happy with it tbh.

[Infiltraitor]

hey,

I'm playing a similar build from sometime now. Mine is dragon knight 15 pal/4 FvS/1 fighter.
Self healing is a bit worst cause the HA difference, but my PPT and MPT is higher.

My feats are something like

PA,Cleave,GC, Bastard, ISB, SM, ISM, IC:Slashing, Empo Heal, Completionist, OC and THF
(I don't dig deep into CK, only for the 2 first core for the extra light dmg).

Most points are spend into Vanguard for pew pew, enuff into warpriest for AS, some into SD for the 20% extra hp.

Also, im always with holy sword and zeal as lvl 4 pal spells (lvl 15 is 2 slots)

Im pretty happy with it tbh.

Precision would be the other thing I could never give up. Fort bypass is too useful vs all the Undead. 56% of my dps comes from crits.

[Skavenaps]

Precision would be the other thing I could never give up. Fort bypass is too useful vs all the Undead. 56% of my dps comes from crits.

You have a point. I could give up THF for precision.

[Infiltraitor]

Celebrating my completed Mortal Fear Heavy Pick with a EE Solo of WGU.

[pappo]

[QUOTE=Infiltraitor;5440653[/QUOTE]

What do you mean when you say :

(If PDK, Paladin level instead)

EDIT: Duh !!! Never mind, I figured it out.

[Infiltraitor]

What do you mean when you say :

(If PDK, Paladin level instead)

EDIT: Duh !!! Never mind, I figured it out.

Lol. You should see the number of mistakes I made. The first 20 replies were people pointing out the errors in my math. My thanks to people like them, and you.

[pappo]

Lol. You should see the number of mistakes I made. The first 20 replies were people pointing out the errors in my math. My thanks to people like them, and you.

NP.. I definitely will try this build. I have a Pally at lvl 28 and wanted something new to try, but still keep my pally gear.
I am not experienced in the TR process, so I had to ask my guild for help, but I want to turn my lvl 28 pure pally into this PDK version.

[Infiltraitor]

NP.. I definitely will try this build. I have a Pally at lvl 28 and wanted something new to try, but still keep my pally gear.
I am not experienced in the TR process, so I had to ask my guild for help, but I want to turn my lvl 28 pure pally into this PDK version.

Your dps would be higher if you went 15/4/1 pal/fvs/ftr
I went 2 Monk to really go overkill on the defenses.