Steel Shrine

[Caprice]

Could you explain what you are doing with the Monk 1 variant?

I am having a hard time figuring out what in Monk 1 gets you "much more DPS", compared to say Fighter 1. Riddle of Fire would give you a tiny bit more damage from Consecration, but I can't imagine that makes all that much of a difference. You could drop Heavy Armor and Defensive Stance in favor of being Centered and investing feats into Master of Rocks or something like that, but then you can't use a Heavy Pick, and the default centered weapons aren't as good. It's also a lot less PRR/MRR. It won't matter as much for you with all those PLs though. So I'm just confused and curious.

[samsonov]

About weapons, did you use Deathnip in epics too? TF weapons of course, but those comes at level 24 earliest. Fighter variant is going to be my next life and while i'm going through my present life i'll collect some good loozor for late heroics and mid-epics. Thanks for sharing your build for us.

[jalont]

Light Armor for evasion, although I've been experiencing some bugged out evasion even while wearing heavy armor. (Lightning traps in Cannith Research Facility seems to allow evasion even in heavy armor)

Shhhh

[Caprice]

About weapons, did you use Deathnip in epics too? TF weapons of course, but those comes at level 24 earliest. Fighter variant is going to be my next life and while i'm going through my present life i'll collect some good loozor for late heroics and mid-epics. Thanks for sharing your build for us.

Earlier in the thread Infiltraitor estimated that Deathnip is still as good as a ML:24 TF (see post #151). Presumably the ML:26 TF would come out ahead then. YMMV.

[Sehenry03]

With the "fix" to SWF do you still find weapon and orb a higher DPS version then a 2hf? Other then your action boost recharge from the 3rd tier orb what else do you get from it that's significant? I am deciding whether a 2h version might be better for my style. Can you do the pro's and con's of each? I plan on doing an iconic TR into a PDK for this to try it out in a day or so.

[Infiltraitor]

Could you explain what you are doing with the Monk 1 variant?

I am having a hard time figuring out what in Monk 1 gets you "much more DPS", compared to say Fighter 1. Riddle of Fire would give you a tiny bit more damage from Consecration, but I can't imagine that makes all that much of a difference. You could drop Heavy Armor and Defensive Stance in favor of being Centered and investing feats into Master of Rocks or something like that, but then you can't use a Heavy Pick, and the default centered weapons aren't as good. It's also a lot less PRR/MRR. It won't matter as much for you with all those PLs though. So I'm just confused and curious.

Nope. You are correct and I am mistaken. There is no DPS difference between Monk 1 and Fighter 1. I was thinking of Kensei for the Tier 1 Attack Speed Boost but those 4 action points will stop me from utilizing Exalted Smite. Instead, it is just better to twist in Dreadnought Speed Boost in both cases.

With the "fix" to SWF do you still find weapon and orb a higher DPS version then a 2hf? Other then your action boost recharge from the 3rd tier orb what else do you get from it that's significant? I am deciding whether a 2h version might be better for my style. Can you do the pro's and con's of each? I plan on doing an iconic TR into a PDK for this to try it out in a day or so.

THF gives 50% Strength bonus, 10 Melee Power, and 50% base damage from glancing blows.

SWF gives 50% Strength bonus, 10 Melee Power, and 30% attack speed.

Because glancing blows dont crit, which is an essential part for Holy Sword, SWF ends up doing about 12% more damage. Then you consider the extra mortal fear procs and it isn't even close. SWF wins by a landslide.

EDIT: Also, regenerating Action Boosts and Smite Evil is a pretty important bonus. 2 Extra slots doesn't hurt either. Nor the +150 Positive Spellpower. Did I mention it regenerates SMITES? It has so much synergy with my current Smite-friendly setup.

I just did a 4 man von 5-6 on heroic, with BB!! This build is awesome.
(i took some screenshots, but i don't know hot to post them)

Thank you for the feedback. Credit goes to all the people who helped me refine the build and point out my mistakes.

[Szordrinn]

Hello guys,

Thanks for sharing this build !!

Do you think it would be possible to make a Pal 15 / FvS 5 version thus giving up some defense from tier 5 SaD and gaining some offense with Warpriest tier 5 ?

Maybe the use of the religious weapon would break all the synergy around piercing etc...

What do you think ?

[Caprice]

Hello guys,

Thanks for sharing this build !!

Do you think it would be possible to make a Pal 15 / FvS 5 version thus giving up some defense from tier 5 SaD and gaining some offense with Warpriest tier 5 ?

Maybe the use of the religious weapon would break all the synergy around piercing etc...

What do you think ?

You lose a lot of damage from the reduced critical profile because of the way the numbers stack. OP's Heavy Pick with all the bonuses is 15-18 x5 and 19-20 x6, for +130% extra damage added to the base due to crits. If I am calculating correctly then using a Longsword (any race) or Shortsword (Drow only, lost a feat) would be 13-18 x3 and 19-20 x4, which is only +90% damage added from crits. Scimitars (Elf, HElf only) would be 11-18 x3 and 19-20 x4, for a slightly better +110% contribution from criticals (but you lose a feat and possibly Human Damage Boost). Heavy Mace (PDK only) would be 15-18 x3 and 19-20 x4; that's an abysmal +70% extra damage from criticals, Using the OP's numbers (e.g. 466 damage per hit w/crits factored in) dropping from 230% to 190% base damage is a loss of about 81 damage per hit, or 186 DPS (unboosted).

The extra enhancement bonus from using a faith weapon is another +5 base damage (over the 96.63 in the OP) and +15 spellpower, and you will get a bit more damage from the better base damage die on a Longsword versus Heavy Pick. Trying to mimic the OP's math I see that translating into something like +38 damage per hit once the criticals, doublestrike, MP, etc. factors in. So that's still about 43 damage per hit lower. You also get a little extra flat damage from the T5 WP effects that do not scale with criticals. You should be able to keep the Wrathful Weapons buff up almost all the time because of the high attack speed, but it only adds a flat average 7 points per hit. Divine Vessel is probably going to hit for 500ish AoE damage every 25 seconds.

So it looks to me like a net DPS loss compared to the OP, alongside the survivability loss, but maybe someone else can check to verify?

[Monkey-Boy]

Nope. You are correct and I am mistaken. There is no DPS difference between Monk 1 and Fighter 1. I was thinking of Kensei for the Tier 1 Attack Speed Boost but those 4 action points will stop me from utilizing Exalted Smite. Instead, it is just better to twist in Dreadnought Speed Boost in both cases.

THF gives 50% Strength bonus, 10 Melee Power, and 50% base damage from glancing blows.

SWF gives 50% Strength bonus, 10 Melee Power, and 30% attack speed.

Because glancing blows dont crit, which is an essential part for Holy Sword, SWF ends up doing about 12% more damage. Then you consider the extra mortal fear procs and it isn't even close. SWF wins by a landslide.

EDIT: Also, regenerating Action Boosts and Smite Evil is a pretty important bonus. 2 Extra slots doesn't hurt either. Nor the +150 Positive Spellpower. Did I mention it regenerates SMITES? It has so much synergy with my current Smite-friendly setup.

Have you considered going up to 18 pally for the 500 Light damage on a vorpal? With PSWFing that's 10% of the time.

[Infiltraitor]

Hello guys,

Thanks for sharing this build !!

Do you think it would be possible to make a Pal 15 / FvS 5 version thus giving up some defense from tier 5 SaD and gaining some offense with Warpriest tier 5 ?

Maybe the use of the religious weapon would break all the synergy around piercing etc...

What do you think ?

Thank you for your feedback. Your question was answered perfectly by Caprice. The celestial champion + heavy pick synergy is probably one of the strongest in the game and giving that up will cause a loss of DPS and a loss of defense.

You lose a lot of damage from the reduced critical profile because of the way the numbers stack. OP's Heavy Pick with all the bonuses is 15-18 x5 and 19-20 x6, for +130% extra damage added to the base due to crits. If I am calculating correctly then using a Longsword (any race) or Shortsword (Drow only, lost a feat) would be 13-18 x3 and 19-20 x4, which is only +90% damage added from crits. Scimitars (Elf, HElf only) would be 11-18 x3 and 19-20 x4, for a slightly better +110% contribution from criticals (but you lose a feat and possibly Human Damage Boost). Heavy Mace (PDK only) would be 15-18 x3 and 19-20 x4; that's an abysmal +70% extra damage from criticals, Using the OP's numbers (e.g. 466 damage per hit w/crits factored in) dropping from 230% to 190% base damage is a loss of about 81 damage per hit, or 186 DPS (unboosted).

The extra enhancement bonus from using a faith weapon is another +5 base damage (over the 96.63 in the OP) and +15 spellpower, and you will get a bit more damage from the better base damage die on a Longsword versus Heavy Pick. Trying to mimic the OP's math I see that translating into something like +38 damage per hit once the criticals, doublestrike, MP, etc. factors in. So that's still about 43 damage per hit lower. You also get a little extra flat damage from the T5 WP effects that do not scale with criticals. You should be able to keep the Wrathful Weapons buff up almost all the time because of the high attack speed, but it only adds a flat average 7 points per hit. Divine Vessel is probably going to hit for 500ish AoE damage every 25 seconds.

So it looks to me like a net DPS loss compared to the OP, alongside the survivability loss, but maybe someone else can check to verify?

The easy way to calculate it is by percentages. Since the major categories multiply each other, you can count it that way.

You gain 5 damage from going from 1d6 to 1d8. You gain 6 more damage from 5 tiers of favored weapon and 1 innate feat. (96+11)/96 = 11% more dps
You lose damage from criticals, going from 230% to 190%. 190/230 = 17% less dps.

0.826 * 1.114 = 0.92.
You end up losing 8% of your dps, 25 PRR, 25 MRR, 3 Lay on Hands, 6 Constitution from Sacred Defender Stance, ect.

Have you considered going up to 18 pally for the 500 Light damage on a vorpal? With PSWFing that's 10% of the time.

Slayer of Evil III: You now gain +3 to hit evil and undead creatures. Your attacks now deal 5d6 additional Light damage. You resist evil influences particularly well, gaining a +4 bonus to saves against spells and effects produced by evil creatures. Your vorpal hits against undead do an additional 500 damage.

10% chance of doing an extra 500 damage only against undead only comes to 50 damage per hit and doesn't scale with damage boost.

Smite Weakness adds up to 20% vulnerability. Which amounts to over +90 damage per hit, and it totally scales with damage boost.

Thank you for your suggestion nevertheless. I reserve the right to steal your ideas posted here and pass them off as my own.

[Caprice]

Well you did mention wanting competitive raid performance, and almost all the mobs in the raids that are worth tweaking a build over are undead.... ;-) That's not a suggestion, but "just sayin'", as they... uhh... say.

[Sehenry03]

Have you considered going up to 18 pally for the 500 Light damage on a vorpal? With PSWFing that's 10% of the time.

I thought a "vorpal" was always a roll of 20 and confirmed crit. That would be 5% wouldn't it? Or am I way off base lol

[Infiltraitor]

Well you did mention wanting competitive raid performance, and almost all the mobs in the raids that are worth tweaking a build over are undead.... ;-) That's not a suggestion, but "just sayin'", as they... uhh... say.

That's not considering the fact that going 18 Paladin would be a completely different build. Giant bursts of AOE healing from Ameliorating Strike is the central component of the build. We've all tried to order hamburger at Chinese restaurants at one time or another. Let's leave it at that.

I thought a "vorpal" was always a roll of 20 and confirmed crit. That would be 5% wouldn't it? Or am I way off base lol

Perfect Single Weapon Fighting Feat will give you vorpal hits on 19 as well.

[Ancient]

Well you did mention wanting competitive raid performance, and almost all the mobs in the raids that are worth tweaking a build over are undead.... ;-) That's not a suggestion, but "just sayin'", as they... uhh... say.

The same raid target has me wondering if taking AoV core 2 would be worth it. I know AP are very tight, but 50% vulnerability to light damage does scale with boosts and melee power and it also reduces fortification.

[Phanes]

Just a few questions.

When leveling do you go full DPS and use a two hander?

After 20 is that when you go into the more tank spec and use Deathnip until you can get Thunder Forged?

Can you do this build as a bladeforged?

I just happen to like big clunky robots but if they don't work they don't work.

[Caprice]

That's not considering the fact that going 18 Paladin would be a completely different build. Giant bursts of AOE healing from Ameliorating Strike is the central component of the build.

I agree. My comment was entirely tongue in cheek.

[Infiltraitor]

Just a few questions.

When leveling do you go full DPS and use a two hander?

After 20 is that when you go into the more tank spec and use Deathnip until you can get Thunder Forged?

Can you do this build as a bladeforged?

I just happen to like big clunky robots but if they don't work they don't work.

Bladeforged are better off as pure 20 Paladins. You don't need ameliorating strike when you have communion of scribing.

I ran my most recent playtest as human, I used Carnifex until I had my sword of shadows at 10, then switched to heavy picks at level 12, and got my Deathnip at level 14.

[samsonov]

My next life is going to be a fighter variant. What feat do you recommend at first level, since I'll be pdk I have a three feat at lvl1. Shield Mastery doesn't work with orbs, doesn't it?

[Infiltraitor]

My next life is going to be a fighter variant. What feat do you recommend at first level, since I'll be pdk I have a three feat at lvl1. Shield Mastery doesn't work with orbs, doesn't it?

Toughness, Force of Personality, and Precision.

Shield mastery would be overkill and it doesn't work with orbs. You also won't want to give up 30% attack speed and draconic reinvigoration.

[Phanes]

Bladeforged are better off as pure 20 Paladins. You don't need ameliorating strike when you have communion of scribing.

I ran my most recent playtest as human, I used Carnifex until I had my sword of shadows at 10, then switched to heavy picks at level 12, and got my Deathnip at level 14.

I am still pretty new and started a PDK followed your leveling 1 - 15 then used a lesser heart and she is almost 20. The build has been able to handle all content solo from 15 to 20, I am currently in Eveningstar farming tokens, but I am missing some stuff like a 36 point build and completionist etc. Will that gimp out the build in the end?