An Idea for Helping Barbarian Healing Problems

[bennyson]

NEW Heroic Class Barbarian Feat: auto-granted at level 10 Barbarian

Restless Spirit:
Spend a Restless Charge to immediately heal yourself for 1d6 points of positive energy per level of Barbarian and for the next 12 seconds, you heal 1d2 points of positive energy per character level. Anything that grants you extra Barbarian Rage will also affect this ability.

[JOTMON]

NEW Heroic Class Barbarian Feat: Requires level 10 Barbarian

Restless Spirit:
Spend a charge to immediately heal yourself for 1d6 points of positive energy per level of Barbarian and for the next 12 seconds, you heal 1d2 points of positive energy per character level. Anything that grants you extra Barbarian Rage will also affect this ability.

Change Vicious and all other self inflicted damage so that it also has equal amount of vampirism of temporary HP..
have the Temporary HP stack with no cap. just a timer and don't apply against any self inflicted damage.. so the Barbarian could have -500hp and +200 Temporary HP and still keep going.. until the temp HP run out..

Has to keep melee up to maintain the buffed temporary HP, when melee stops.. the temp HP drop. and so does the Barbarian if he cant get a heal quick enough.
Let diehard prevent them from death when temp hp drop.. endcap barbarian with -500hp waiting to see if he gets a heal or a mob walks over for the 1shot finisher... or a long wait to regen with no mobs or healers around.

[bennyson]

Change Vicious and all other self inflicted damage so that it also has equal amount of vampirism of temporary HP..
have the Temporary HP stack with no cap. just a timer and don't apply against any self inflicted damage.. so the Barbarian could have -500hp and +200 Temporary HP and still keep going.. until the temp HP run out..

Has to keep melee up to maintain the buffed temporary HP, when melee stops.. the temp HP drop. and so does the Barbarian if he cant get a heal quick enough.
Let diehard prevent them from death when temp hp drop.. endcap barbarian with -500hp waiting to see if he gets a heal or a mob walks over for the 1shot finisher... or a long wait to regen with no mobs or healers around.

I don't think people want temp HP...

Also am being serious in this thread -_-

[JOTMON]

Well from a serious perspective..

Barbarians are resilient to mundane attacks and shrug off most melee injuries.
Barbarians are supposed to be tough as if they are wearing armor.

Barbarians should receive 10PRR and 1DR/-magic per level just for being a barbarian. same bonus type as armor, so it does not stack with armor, but wearing armor does not negate inate, (best applies.)
x1 crit multiplier added to the Barbarian capstone. (stacks with everything). x2 crit multiplier with great clubs... just cause.. greatclubs need some love.

Barbarians are supposed to be the heavy hitters of the melee classes.. pure base damage at the cost of defenses.. Their damage output from enhancements needs to be stacking with all other forms of buffs.
It needs to be worth taking additional attention from a healer to make it worth the healers time to watchover/heals on Barbarian focus. not screw it I will just kill mobs myself on my cleric because this barbarian is a waste of sp.

[Qhualor]

help me with the math, but why would i spend a feat on 1d6 hp per level (positive energy no less, leaving out robots) immediately and than another 1d2 positive energy per level for 12 seconds when i can just drink a CSW or SF pot or use a hire that i bought for plat?

oh and also, I don't understand what you mean by "Anything that grants you extra Barbarian Rage will also affect this ability."
extra barb rages affects the positive healing?

[bennyson]

help me with the math, but why would i spend a feat on 1d6 hp per level (positive energy no less, leaving out robots) immediately and than another 1d2 positive energy per level for 12 seconds when i can just drink a CSW or SF pot or use a hire that i bought for plat?

oh and also, I don't understand what you mean by "Anything that grants you extra Barbarian Rage will also affect this ability."
extra barb rages affects the positive healing?

You do not spend a feat, it is given to you at level 10 as a Class feat, just like Rage or Uncanny Dodge.

Also at level 20 Barbarian, you would heal between 20 and 120 HP and for 12 seconds afterwards, you heal 28 to 56 HP, for a total of 356 to 792 HP over the course of 12 seconds at maximum level.

The feat uses the Charge system like the Barbarian Rage feat and if you have any affects that grants more usage of your Barbarian rage feat per rest, it will also affect Restless Spirit.

Although if the immediate healing affects of the are too low I could increase it to 2d6 instead or higher, just trying to keep things balanced for a potentially powerful class.

Edit: Changed the OP from saying "requires" to "auto-granted at" to fix further confusions, sorry.

Edit2: Fixed the OP again to clearly state that its a "charge" ability.

[droid327]

This is just LOH for Barbs? Barbs aren't a healing class...that's part of their design. They're supposed to have unparalleled DPS and some damage mitigation (DR), in exchange - that, of course, is not how it works right now, but lets wait until the barb overhaul is on preview so we can see if they fix that.

I think the answer is to make Barbs better fighters, rather than make them some kind of ersatz Druids with a heal+HOT. If they make Barb DPS more palatable, and change their mitigation scheme from DR to something more practical like PRR, I think that goes a long way towards increasing Barb's overall survivability, even without innate self-healing ability.

Ultimately, though, pure Barb is always going to be a bit of a glass-cannon melee nuker, perhaps better suited for group play with a healer than soloing - that's just what the class is for. If you want a tankier, healier melee class, mix in some Paladin.

[bennyson]

This is just LOH for Barbs? Barbs aren't a healing class...that's part of their design. They're supposed to have unparalleled DPS and some damage mitigation (DR), in exchange - that, of course, is not how it works right now, but lets wait until the barb overhaul is on preview so we can see if they fix that.

I think the answer is to make Barbs better fighters, rather than make them some kind of ersatz Druids with a heal+HOT. If they make Barb DPS more palatable, and change their mitigation scheme from DR to something more practical like PRR, I think that goes a long way towards increasing Barb's overall survivability, even without innate self-healing ability.

Ultimately, though, pure Barb is always going to be a bit of a glass-cannon melee nuker, perhaps better suited for group play with a healer than soloing - that's just what the class is for. If you want a tankier, healier melee class, mix in some Paladin.

No, because unlike LOH, it will ONLY affect YOU and not any other member of your party, just you the Barbarian. This ability is also not Warforged friendly, but it might become Warforged friendly if you build your toon with extra heal amp and reduce the 50% penalty.

The reason why I came up with this idea is for when you need a heal, you can do it yourself in the middle of battle and saving the cleric some precious time and mana.

We all know that barbs are mana suckers for Clerics and my intent was to end that horrific cycle and to bring some survival ability to Barbarians without relaying on hard-to-acquire potions.

Edit: Also, whats wrong with brainstorming ideas in the Suggestion section for a future update? I don't see the point of that.

[Qhualor]

Also at level 20 Barbarian, you would heal between 20 and 120 HP and for 12 seconds afterwards, you heal 28 to 56 HP, for a total of 356 to 792 HP over the course of 12 seconds at maximum level.

for heroics and for a melee class that is not known for self healing outside of pots in DDO, this would be too OP. barbs in DDO are a class reliant on pots to self heal and would totally replace the need or desire for SF pots, which are the best source of healing for barbs. at level 20, my barb can heal for ~650 hp with a SF pot and that's with some investment in heal amp. im not against something to replace SF pots, but this just isn't it.

this would also replace the EDs Fast Healing and Fury Made Placid. your suggestion actually fits better for Fast Healing because it sounds like something similar. when the thread starts on barb improvements by Sev, I would put your suggestion in there for improving Fast Healing. FMP is a terrible ED, imo, and it looks more like a barb making fun of monks.

[stoopid_cowboy]

looks more like a barb making fun of monks.

Hey now, it is always acceptable to make fun of monks!

[Stinging_Bee]

This is just LOH for Barbs? Barbs aren't a healing class...that's part of their design. They're supposed to have unparalleled DPS and some damage mitigation (DR), in exchange - that, of course, is not how it works right now, but lets wait until the barb overhaul is on preview so we can see if they fix that.

I think the answer is to make Barbs better fighters, rather than make them some kind of ersatz Druids with a heal+HOT. If they make Barb DPS more palatable, and change their mitigation scheme from DR to something more practical like PRR, I think that goes a long way towards increasing Barb's overall survivability, even without innate self-healing ability.

Ultimately, though, pure Barb is always going to be a bit of a glass-cannon melee nuker, perhaps better suited for group play with a healer than soloing - that's just what the class is for. If you want a tankier, healier melee class, mix in some Paladin.

well said

[bennyson]

for heroics and for a melee class that is not known for self healing outside of pots in DDO, this would be too OP. barbs in DDO are a class reliant on pots to self heal and would totally replace the need or desire for SF pots, which are the best source of healing for barbs. at level 20, my barb can heal for ~650 hp with a SF pot and that's with some investment in heal amp. im not against something to replace SF pots, but this just isn't it.

this would also replace the EDs Fast Healing and Fury Made Placid. your suggestion actually fits better for Fast Healing because it sounds like something similar. when the thread starts on barb improvements by Sev, I would put your suggestion in there for improving Fast Healing. FMP is a terrible ED, imo, and it looks more like a barb making fun of monks.

I don't think you understand.

Barbs are forced to use pots, pots should not be the primary source of healing for any class, they should only be used as a last resort or if one desires to perverse resources. Also, SF pots reduces all ability cores but Con by 10, if you play a Barbarian as you said, would you really want to loss DPS in the middle of battle while trying to stay alive?

Also, for when Sev does his thread on barb improvements, I'll repeat my idea there, but the reason why I posted it here so that a dev could possibly come up with an early idea of their own, possibly influenced by my own idea.

[Qhualor]

I don't think you understand.

Barbs are forced to use pots, pots should not be the primary source of healing for any class, they should only be used as a last resort or if one desires to perverse resources. Also, SF pots reduces all ability cores but Con by 10, if you play a Barbarian as you said, would you really want to loss DPS in the middle of battle while trying to stay alive?

Also, for when Sev does his thread on barb improvements, I'll repeat my idea there, but the reason why I posted it here so that a dev could possibly come up with an early idea of their own, possibly influenced by my own idea.

I actually fully understand, but if you are trying to change a core class into a Shamanic Barbarian, than I disagree and ill disagree in the future barb thread too. Fast Healing is the only thing a barb has outside of pots in DDO. the problem with barb self healing isn't the class and the fix for improvements shouldn't be focused there. the better fix is making improvements to enhancements, EDs and pots.

I know the penalties for SF pots and the penalties for them are no longer required as the game has changed into "be self sufficient" and actual "healers" are rare. despite the penalties, they are the best source of healing in DDO for a barb. I do plan on discussing this in Sevs thread when it comes up. because barbs rely on pots to self heal, they are the only class in DDO that get penalized for comparable healing.

[bennyson]

I actually fully understand, but if you are trying to change a core class into a Shamanic Barbarian, than I disagree and ill disagree in the future barb thread too. Fast Healing is the only thing a barb has outside of pots in DDO.

Am not "insisting" on changing a core class, am merely "suggesting" a way to let Barbarians selfheal without the need of those pots. I really don't care how they implement it. Enhancements, Destinies, I don't care how they do it. All am "suggesting" is a way, it doesn't have to be a core class ability. Its only a idea, nothing less and nothing more.

Also, Fast Healing isn't the only thing, you have FMP (don't get me started on that "oh but FMP is a terrible ability!" attitude) Cocoon and Healing Spring. Also, wouldn't Barbarians with Magical Training make them Shamanic? Hmmm...

[doubledge]

Other solutions could be "Vampirism boost" (heal 1d4/1d6/1d8) hp per hit) as an enhancement, or give them an ability that heals them whenever they are near an enemy that dies.


Another one of my favorite ideas for this would be "Bloody Rage", an ability granted at level 6 barbarian (Augments rage: While raged, you heal Xd6 positive energy per swing, where X = enhancement bonus of weapon. Two handed weapons heal double.

The #1 thing to improve barbarians is to remember: Barbarians should have absolutely >0< healing when running away, or out of combat, that'd just make them another cookie cutter.

[Qhualor]

Am not "insisting" on changing a core class, am merely "suggesting" a way to let Barbarians selfheal without the need of those pots. I really don't care how they implement it. Enhancements, Destinies, I don't care how they do it. All am "suggesting" is a way, it doesn't have to be a core class ability. Its only a idea, nothing less and nothing more.

Also, Fast Healing isn't the only thing, you have FMP (don't get me started on that "oh but FMP is a terrible ability!" attitude) Cocoon and Healing Spring. Also, wouldn't Barbarians with Magical Training make them Shamanic? Hmmm...

I know that you are suggesting, but I just cant agree with finding more ways for a class that is not known to self heal without pots. is your suggestion coming from PnP or did you just make it up? all of the self sufficiency suggestions I have made in the unofficial barb thread started by Silver are rooted from PnP or already existing in DDO.

like I said, FMP sucks. its an enhancement that seems thrown into the ED just to give barbs self healing without any thought of the penalties involved. Fast Healing is good and can be very good if the devs make it into a heroic autogranted feat and scale it better. Cocoon you cant use while raged and twisting Healing Spring is 1 use per rest with none of the added benefits like /DR (not that it stacks with barb /DR anyways). besides, I thought this was about heroics or was this about a heroic feat that is still viable in epics?

to be honest, CSW pots is usually enough when I play my barb or just grab a hire in heroics. its epics where they need more love with self healing, but it goes beyond that. scaling their inherent /DR better, some boosts to dps and other overall defenses to work better in epics would make them a lot more survivable. potions are in dire need of tweaking and/or adding something similar like SF pots without the severe penalty because they never were upgraded as the game grew.

[Silverleafeon]

Read and cannot comment due to NDA, pulling a quote out.
Thanks....

[Lonnbeimnech]

I still think 'deathless frenzy', straight out of core d&d, is the way to go.

Deathless Frenzy (Ex): At 4th level and higher, a frenzied berserker can scorn death and unconsciousness while in a frenzy. As long as her frenzy continues, she is not treated as disabled at 0 hit points, nor is she treated as dying at —1 to —9 hit points. Even if reduced to —10 hit points or less, she continues to fight normally until her frenzy ends. At that point, the effects of her wounds apply normally if they have not been healed. This ability does not prevent death from massive damage or from spell effects such as slay living or disintegrate.

[droid327]

Other solutions could be "Vampirism boost" (heal 1d4/1d6/1d8) hp per hit) as an enhancement, or give them an ability that heals them whenever they are near an enemy that dies.

Another one of my favorite ideas for this would be "Bloody Rage", an ability granted at level 6 barbarian (Augments rage: While raged, you heal Xd6 positive energy per swing, where X = enhancement bonus of weapon. Two handed weapons heal double.

The #1 thing to improve barbarians is to remember: Barbarians should have absolutely >0< healing when running away, or out of combat, that'd just make them another cookie cutter.

While that thought on "bloody rage" sounds a little overpowered - in Epic you'd be getting 20d6 healing every swing for only 6 Barb, before heal amp even - the general principle is right.

Barbs should not have *elective* self healing. Ie, no push-button heals or OOC heals (outside what's available to everyone, ie Cocoon and pots). Their healing should be tied to being in combat, and heal proc-on-hit (Vampirism) or proc-on-crit or proc-on-death is a good way to implement that. Combined with meaningful innate and stacking damage mitigation (PRR or Dodge+Dodge cap), that will offset the net damage they take to make them more comparable to other melee classes in terms of survivability and being a blue-bar drainer for healer classes.

[Uska]

No!!!