Tower shields

[Folker]

Tower Shields need to offer more protection. At high levels it is relatively easy for a character to have more dexterity then a tower shield will allow them to use and this makes large shields offer equal or even better protection.

In order to make use of a tower shield you have to heavily spec for it and even then it offers very slight increase over large shields. The PRR and AC that tower shields give both need to be buffed.

A little math:
Starting dex of 10 +2 for a Tome +2 for ship buffs and +8 for item buff gives you a dexterity of 22 very easily doable.
A Mountain tower shield gives you damage reduction of 7 and a base AC of 10, while A large Spiritcraft shield gives you a damage reduction of 6 and a base AC of 7. With a dexterity of 22 that means that the Tower shield gives you an AC of 12 while the Large shield gives you an AC of 13!

At the highest level the AC for Tower/Large shields is only 12 and 9 and the dexterity only increases making Large shields the better choice by far.

The base AC for the 5 levels of tower shields are 4/6/8/10/12
I would suggest the tower shields AC base be increased 5/7/11/14/16 and the base damage reduction increased by a straight 2 accross all tower shields.

[General_Gronker]

With a dexterity of 22 that means that the Tower shield gives you an AC of 12 while the Large shield gives you an AC of 13!

Yes. And?

No, seriously, that's how it should be. The tower shield isn't actually designed for melee combat. No, what they need to do is give the tower shield the ability to provide Total Cover like it's supposed to be able to do.

[spindeldorf]

please note that:
- mithral shields have a max dex bonus of 4
- Templar's Bulwark/Epic Templar's Bulwark have a max dex bonus of 4 (mithral)
- Levik's Defender has a max dex bonus of 4 (mithral)
- Madstone Shield has a max dex bonus of 3 (gem AND tower shield proficiency granted)
- Skyvault Shield has a max dex bonus of 4 (mithral)

if character has 2 levels of Fighter:
Stalwart Shield Mastery: +5%/+10%/+15% Shield Armor Class and +1/+2/+3 Tower Shield Maximum Dexterity Bonus.

if character has 2 levels of Paladin:
Sacred Shield Mastery: +5%/+10%/+15% Shield Armor Class and +1/+2/+3 Tower Shield Maximum Dexterity Bonus.

if character is Dwarf:
Dwarven Shield Mastery: +5%/+10%/+15% Shield Armor Class and +1/+2/+3 Tower Shield Maximum Dexterity Bonus.

Dwarven Shield Mastery and Stalwart Shield Mastery stack
Sacred Shield Mastery and Stalwart Shield Mastery stack? (not sure)

So base 4/6/8/10/12 AC becomes: 14/16/18/20/22 (10 max dex bonus/max dodge=30 dexterity!) with
mithral shield + Stalwart Shield Mastery + Dwarven Shield Mastery
or
mithral shield + Sacred Shield Mastery + Dwarven Shield Mastery

pretty good or not?

[droid327]

Yes, Tower Shields are better in the hands of the right combatant - as they should be, they're basically the shield version of Exotic Weapons. With the class and race bonuses, they become better than Large Shields. They're supposed to be niche items, while Large Shields are the more "generalist" option for top-end shield protection/MRR boosting. There should be a place for every type of shield; no one shield should always be better than another, and an across-the-board boost to Tower would make it universally superior to Large.

[Folker]

But tower shields as the poster 2 above pointed out, are only a very little better and with a massive investment in enhancement points AND also you have to have 2 classes and a certain race. That is not a good design at all. Tower shields should be perfectly viable for all races and really should be viable for Fighter or Paladin without having to spec into both classes.

[droid327]

But tower shields as the poster 2 above pointed out, are only a very little better and with a massive investment in enhancement points AND also you have to have 2 classes and a certain race. That is not a good design at all. Tower shields should be perfectly viable for all races and really should be viable for Fighter or Paladin without having to spec into both classes.

You don't need all three. Any one of those will give you more or less the same final bonus to AC that you're asking for in your OP to make up for the MDB difference, which is the only real advantage of Large over Tower. Anything more is lagniappe. Plus AC is still a lesser defensive mod; the MDB matters more for Dodge cap, so your goal for your Tower Shield MDB isn't to hit your full DEX mod, but rather to just match your Armor MDB, which will determine your max Dodge.

Plus its not just AC and the DR. Any shield build is going to take SM/ISM, and that gives you +5 PRR while using a Tower over a Large shield, too.

Finally, its not just Tower or Large, but *which* Tower or Large you're going to use. Tower shields like Bastion or Purple Dragon shield are just better shields especially for Vanguard builds than even something like Wall of Wood.

[Enoach]

While Tower Shields do have the MDB limitation associated to them, they don't just serve characters that can maximize there MDB, but are usually good choices for characters that cannot get a lot of bonuses to MDB.

When I first started out as a human Paladin we did not get options unless you splashed fighter to extend MDB on Tower Shields so Dex investment vs MDB advantage actually made Tower Shields a better choice.

Now currently my build I can get 13 MDB with Large Shield and Full Plate and am limited to 7 MDB using a Tower Shield - But sometimes it is less about the AC/Dodge and more about the effects the Shield gives - The Purple Dragon Shield has some nice bonuses that work out quite well for a Paladin that is S&B tankish.

Now I do have one pet peeve with tower shields - Most tower shields graphically are Small to Large Shield in size and don't look like a Tower Shield. If they are not going to make them look like Tower Shields make them Large shields and then those of us can enjoy our PD Shield as a large shield and not have its MDB limitation or need to use Master Touch Scrolls to save on Feats

[Folker]

Now I do have one pet peeve with tower shields - Most tower shields graphically are Small to Large Shield in size and don't look like a Tower Shield. If they are not going to make them look like Tower Shields make them Large shields and then those of us can enjoy our PD Shield as a large shield and not have its MDB limitation or need to use Master Touch Scrolls to save on Feats

I have to admit that is very upsetting to see tower shields that look so small. Ever seen a movie with a Roman Legion in it? Those are freakin tower shields, 5 ft high and a man can stand behind them like he would a wall.