Acoylyte of the Skin [Lost Trees Project]

[harry-pancreas]

looks pretty good, though i'm gonna say i'd like to see a sorc that can self-hjeal without being a robot. From a new player perspective is too hard (i know, UMD, heal scrolls, cocoon, blah blah. That's for an average/vet player, not a new one).

This one could have a toggle SLA that toggles a regen effect, it would be the same as the PM aura.
Maybe 3rd core (lvl 6) for a lesser regen aura and the 4th core (lvl 12) for a regen aura. These effects should be gained at higher lvls than PM's, because sorcs have some advantages over a wizard (spell points, and if you're not a robot DC casting becomes viable with less gear/PL's/etc)

granted i don't like to be a robot, may be not urgent but i'd still like to see that. Probably not a popular opinion though.


Edit: i skipped by accident one page of the post. Looks more popular than i thought. Regen fits with the hellish flavour me thinks, better than FL prolly.

edit 2: i skipped a lot, i'd give good feedback and not an idea just thrown there later overall, the tree is a good idea

[Wizza]

An excellent question. And now is good time to look at it.

What is it?

Hmm... DR = defense ; +1 universal spell crit = universal tree ; think of it as a defensive archmage type in its own way.

Is it a defensive or an universal tree? Not sure it can be both. See below.

The tree probably needs review to not be underpowered, but I am trying not to make it overpowered.
Savant is a tough act to follow and balance beside.

It could easily be considered a huge splash for a single savant.
Taking core 18 and tier 5 from Savant then taking capstone and tier 4 from this tree might be a good combo.
Will have to look at the points spent to see.
You gain 0.25 USP per AP along with +4% USC right off the bat and that is definitely attractive to some Sorcerers.

This is not going to happen. For me, even to gain that 4%, I'd have to give up my Secondary element. This WON'T happen, ever. So, what should have this tree to make me give up my second element? That's the question that you should answer. I'm not giving up 8% fire crit chance and fire spell power to get a mere 4% USC and a minor USP or a few DR (again, I wouldn't take your capstone so I'm not counting that DR 20/- ). I simply won't. And I won't even because at the lower tiers, this tree is not offering much in terms of Defense either.

Compared to the Savant capstone, especially if you are warforged/bladeforged it is actually pretty good.
{Ever go into elemental form as a warforged sorcerer There are reasons why we hardly ever see pure sorcerers.}

Is it? Savant capstone is:

+2 Charisma
+10 Electric and Sonic Spell Power
+1 Caster Level when casting Electric, Sonic, and Air spells.
+1 Maximum Caster Level when casting Electric, Sonic, and Air spells.

Yours is:

DR 20
+2 Cha

Now, if you put in the Elemental form of savants, you understand why I would never take this over my primary element form.

Dominate differs greatly from Mass Charm monster in two fold ~ it turns on monster against the rest, and that monster follows your thru the quest till it dies or saves while doing damage and pulling agro along the way. Its not for every play style, but it definitely ranks up there among the best heroic SLA in game for the right player. Just like Hypno can give you that extra second or two needed, this sla will have its moments.

I know how the spell works but it simply is not good. You never wants a mob following you that you absolutely have no control over, which is why summons are weak in this game and should just be left where they are.

The DR stacks with fiendish DR so in epic levels that is DR 26. Bluff also adds 25% threat reduction during it's duration.

Threat reduction worked before MotU. Right now, noone cares about them. Not even Rogues probably. For sure not Sorcerers who just blow up things so quickly.

Acid absorption represents part of the defensives package. Combined with an item and Energy Sheath it comes into its own nicely. For someone who is not player a 2 pally / XX Sorcerer / ? monk toon, saving throw vs magic is going to start looking interesting again when Divine Grace no longer offers uber uber saves anymore. {A patch or two after update 23 and divine grace will be limited to {2 + (pally level * 3)}

Whoever is not splashed to pally, will not have enough saves on a Sorcerer. Simple as that. It's still a nice enhancements that fits into the theme. I'd lower it in tier anyway.

For heroics, false life + DR / half Sorcerer level is pretty good. For Epic Normal or Epic Hard combined with DR 20, it actually might help. Yes we could consider more than once per minute.

Problem is not False Life itself, which can act as a DR. It's how much it's going to be up or not.

How many level 4 sorcerer spells will Daze opponents effectively on EE. Order's Wrath fits that bill nicely. Again, yes its a defensive option as much of this tree feature such. Holy Smites blinds and blindess on EE is a game changer. I agree compared to running thru a dungeon trigging off mass hold monster and energy burst this is a very different playstyle, but one cannot think we should buff that playstyle.

It doesn't matter. The damage and the daze of those spells are really weak. If you want blidness, you have Incendiary cloud on a Sorcerer.

There are cheap SLAs and a cost factor to gain Ablative Armor toggle.
The ability to cast a fully metamagiced curse or blindess is interesting.
Perhaps I should drop the poison/contagion or make it a multi-select with more choices?
Perhaps Poison and Contagion should be cheaper.

Perhaps, but I still think noone ever used and will ever use neither Poison nor Contagion.

This is the only sorcerer heroic enhancement place in the game to gain a non evocation DC bonus. And its actually +3 not +1 look at core three six: Aura of Fiendish Fear: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Fiendish Fear, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2. Cooldown: 1 second

Yeah, you have that +1 DC but nothing to go with it.


Anyway, my 2c.

[Silverleafeon]

Thanks Wizzy for the honesty, I APPRECIATE IT. I will look things over some more.

I can think of a few changes already:

Core 18 multi-select SLA: chose one:

Devil: Order's Wrath as a level 4 SLA.

Demon: Chaos Hammer as a level 4 SLA
Hmm...better...still weak but better.


Or other...and move the Fire/electric absorbtion to tier 3 in its place.
Maybe we could make the aborbs be 5/10/15% each.



I agree no one will probably use the Poison or Contagion.
Curse as an SLA could be interesting.

False Life toggle while not bad is weak.


What about instead of Posion, Contagion, Curse, or Blindess being an SLA how about your spells have a X% chance of applying these to a target?
X= 5% chance to trigger once per two seconds.

[harry-pancreas]

Hey, i hope you don't mind, i redesigned some stuff (it's still a colaboration, maybe you wanna mix some of this stuff with yours). I left some of your names so you can find what i replaced (some names like the path of heresy probably don't make any sense with my changes in a flavour point of view).



Flavour text i found: Acolytes of the skin seek to gain power by replacing their skin with that of a demon's.



Core 1
Planar Power: For each point spent in this tree you gain +1 Universal Spell Power.
Choose a path: Devil or Demon; this will be your choice for multi-selections later on.
Requires: Any non good alignment.


Core 3

Defense of the Pit Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +10% profane bonus to fire, acid and cold absorption

Demon: You gain +10% profane bonus to electricity, acid and cold absorption


Passive: Fiendish DR: You gain DR 5 / Good.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Planar Power, Sorcerer level 3



Core 6
Your fiendish skin gain a regeneration effect. Toggle: You regen 1-4 hp every 2 seconds, and this ability costs 15sp every (24 secs + 3 per caster level) while active. This is affected by your alignement spell power (aka light). If you drop below 0 HP but are not dead, this effect can bring you back to consciousness
passive: +2 PRR and MRR

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Shield of Blasphemy, Sorcerer level 6


Core 12
Your fiendish skin's regeneration effect is now better. Toggle: You regen 2-8(+1 per 2 caster levels) hp every 2 seconds, and this ability costs 25sp every (24 secs + 3 per caster level) while active.
Passive: +3 PRR and MRR (total +5)

Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now You gain DR (Sorcerer Level divided by 2) / Good.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requires: core 6, Sorcerer level 12


Core 18

Devil Path: Magic of Blasphemy: Toggle: Your offensive spells have a 3% chance of triggering a paralyzing supernatural poison on the enemy, unless they save against FORT. This stuns enemies for 6 secs (Rendering them helpless). This effect can trigger every 30 seconds. DC: 20+CHAR bonus + half character level

Demon Path: Magic of Blasphemy: Toggle: Your offensive spells have a 3% chance of triggering a paralyzing fear effect on the enemy, unless they save against WILL. This stuns enemies for 6 secs (Rendering them helpless). This effect can trigger every 30 seconds. DC: 20+CHAR bonus + half character level




Capstone Glare of the Pit:
Devil: +2 cha and +2 con. +10% to fire, acid and cold absorbtion and
Demon: +4 con and+10% to electricity, acid and cold absorbtion
Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now DR 20 / Good.





Tier One

Skills of the Pit I: Bluff +1/+2/+3 ; 3rd Rank: You gain +25 spell points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture switches to red, green, or grey (you pick). Your fiensish skin gains +4 profane bonus to armor (stacks with robe/armor/spells)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements

Resistance of the battleground : +2/+4/+6 Spell resistance

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1


Power of the Pit I: Some of your spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit (devil: fire, acid, alignement // demon: elec, acid, alignement)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements



Tier Two

Skills of the Pit II:

Sowing Confusion: Your enemy's confusion galvanizes you. Whenever you use bluff, or use an ability that triggers an bluff check, you gain a stacking [2/4/6] bonus to universal spell power for the duration of the bluff effect, whether or not the bluff succeeds, or indeed if there is anything present to be bluffed.
(i changed DR for spellpower because, i think, if i bluff something is too blast it away, need no defense. Granted there might be a lot of enemies around and not only 1, but i think it makes more sense)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skill of the Pit I


Skin adaptation II: You gain +10% fire(devil) or electricity (demon) absorption. +2 armor bonus for a total of +6

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skin adaptation I


Profane Resistance: You gain +1/+2/+3 profane( or unique/whatever stacking with most stuff) bonus to all saves

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 No requirements


Power of the Pit II: Some of your spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit (devil: fire, acid, alignement // demon: elec, acid, alignement)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Power of the Pit I





Tier Three

Piercing magic: +1/+2/+3 spell penetration

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3 Progression: 10 No requirements




Heretical hardness: +5/+10/+15 PRR and +5/+7/+10 MRR

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No Requirements


Skin adaptation III: Gain +10% fire(devil)/electricity (demon) absorption. +2 Armor bonus for a total of +8

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Skin adaptation II


Power of the Pit III: Some of your spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit (devil: fire, acid, alignement // demon: elec, acid, alignement)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit II


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


Tier Four

Battleground's soldier: You gain a permanent heroism effect (+2 bonus to all attacks, skills checks and saves)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Efficient metamagic: maximize/empower/enlarge/quicken

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3 Progression: 10


Path of Heresy II: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Bestow Curse Spell Like Ability: Bestow Curse (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Contagion Spell Like Ability: Contagion (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy II


Power of the Pit IV: Some of your spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit (devil: fire, acid, alignement // demon: elec, acid, alignement)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit III


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier Five

Battleground's hero: You gain a permanent greater heroism effect (+4 saves, skills, fear inmunity)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 No requirements


Skin adaptation III: You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons
You have racial immunity to natural poisons, sleep. You gain +10 PPR and +10 MMR

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Skin adaptation IV


Power of the battleground: Spell Like Ability:
Devil: binding chain (Activation Cost: 25/23/20 Spell Points. Cooldown: 60/50/40 seconds. Considered a level 6 spell.)
Demon: Telekinesis (Activation Cost: 25/23/20 Spell Points. Cooldown: 40/50/40 seconds. Considered a level 6 spell.)
Metamagic: no.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements


Heretical magic: +2 INT, +1/3/5 spellcraft, +15/20/25 spell points
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 No requirements


Path of Heresy III:

Gain 5+CHA bonus+half character level racial bonus to spell resistance (plus tier 1) (I put "racial bonus" so it doesn't stack with drow's SR for obvious reasons. The lower tier does stack.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Path of Heresy II


------------------------------------------------------

What i tried to do (based on your ideas) is to make a defensive tree with some self-hjealing, some unique bonuses with fiendish flavour (in the case of Selfhjeals i copied the PM aura because i think it's perfect for this game).
I added some bonuses every caster tree has, like efficient meta and spell penetration.

I'm out of ideas for the SLA's (though they're weak, i think contagion and poison are fine tbh, not everything has to be uber)

One of the strong points of my designed tree would be the SR, but to make it so it needs to stack with SR gear. IF that's not possible because of the coding, it could be changed to 5+chabonus+full character level for a max of 63 assuming charisma 70.

It's a cheap tree, Total cost if you get everything is 65 ap's if i'm not misstaken so it's possible to mix with other(s)(i changed a few things after calculation, but i think at the same cost).

My favourite things are the regen effect of the 6 and 12 cores and the tier 5 SLA's. I'm not sure how the SR would scale on heroics, it might be OP instead of SR's current state (completely worthless).
Alignement spells suck, but i didn't know what to use to pump up the regen effect. It could be positive spellpower but it's still useless for a sorc. The SLA's could be replaced by order's wrath and chaos hammer (you added them previously)

This what you'd gain if you take everything on the tree:

absortion: 50% elec/fire + 30% cold and acid
AC: +8 profane
Spower: 65 universal
skills: +3 bluff +5 spellcraft
PRR/MRR: +30/+25
saves: +3 profane
SR: tons, even if you're a drow. I'm fairly sure this tree as it is would make it possible to build for SR, even on EE (assumig CHA 70* you can get, at cap, 55+item (base5+30 CHA bonus+14 Half character level at cap+6 full lower tier ) . And it can be better adding completionist and some other stuff. This would be building for it, thus making a heavy investment and that's why i added 6 from destinies)
unique: +2 int, little stacking spower, paralyzing effects, self-hjealing
And some coolness with the binding chain/telekinesis

http://ddowiki.com/page/Binding_Chain
http://ddowiki.com/page/Telekinesis

*cha 70: (18 base + 11 (item) + 1 (exceptional) +3 (insight) +4 (enhancements) +5 (tome) +7 (lvl up) +2(ship) +1 (litany) +6 (destinies) + 2 (capstone)





I hope it helps.

Cheers-

[Silverleafeon]

Reread Wizzy other thread and all the comments there.


While I don't have any access to white boards or the like, I do try to get a feeling of what the Devs are thinking.

I sort of get the impression that a third druid+arty+favored soul set of trees would be much more desirable to them than a new Sorcerer tree, perhaps.


So, I ask myself why would this be so?

And then myself answers, look at your last two Sorcerer projects ~ Warmage and AotS.


Both of them sooner or later ran into the situation of competing with or buffing Savant.

Now look at EK ~ it neither competes with nor buffs the Savant trees.

So we have the offensive Savant tree, the defensive EK tree, what is left to build?


I am more used to divines/bards and the like the immediate answer would be buffing allies.
The inverse of buffing allies is debuffing foes.

What do devils in Amarath do a lot ~ they constantly curse us including healing curses.
Or more simply put they debuff us.

Now all the brainstorm so far is good and helpful to the Devs, if you look closely at the Harper tree you will find some ideas from round X of the Warmage project within it.


So, Acolyte of the Skin rerolled might have new goals and ideals.

• Avoid Buffing Savant Trees
  
  
• Avoid competing with Savant Trees
  
  
• Consider implementing ways to buff the EK Tree
  
  
• Focus this new version on Debuffing Foes
  
  
• Focus this new version on a school of magic other than evocation
  
  
• Consider granting SLAs and effects that duplicate the Sorcerer Past life SLA's random energy effect.
  
  
• Consider Wildmage type effects that are random.

[Silverleafeon]

i hope it helps.

Cheers-

great stuff thanks very much!

[Silverleafeon]

I guess the basic problem is that Savant is possible the most power tree set in the game, especially when combined with the Draconic ED.

The Savants do have a weakness ~ one must choose carefully what energy one casts.
As already mentioned in this thread, Devils do not exclusively cast fire, they cast a variety of spells.

So I intend to exploit the Savant's Weakness with AotC rerolled.

[HatsuharuZ]

Reread Wizzy other thread and all the comments there.


While I don't have any access to white boards or the like, I do try to get a feeling of what the Devs are thinking.

I sort of get the impression that a third druid+arty+favored soul set of trees would be much more desirable to them than a new Sorcerer tree, perhaps.


So, I ask myself why would this be so?

And then myself answers, look at your last two Sorcerer projects ~ Warmage and AotS.


Both of them sooner or later ran into the situation of competing with or buffing Savant.

Now look at EK ~ it neither competes with nor buffs the Savant trees.

So we have the offensive Savant tree, the defensive EK tree, what is left to build?


I am more used to divines/bards and the like the immediate answer would be buffing allies.
The inverse of buffing allies is debuffing foes.

What do devils in Amarath do a lot ~ they constantly curse us including healing curses.
Or more simply put they debuff us.

Now all the brainstorm so far is good and helpful to the Devs, if you look closely at the Harper tree you will find some ideas from round X of the Warmage project within it.


So, Acolyte of the Skin rerolled might have new goals and ideals.

• Avoid Buffing Savant Trees
  
  
• Avoid competing with Savant Trees
  
  
• Consider implementing ways to buff the EK Tree
  
  
• Focus this new version on Debuffing Foes
  
  
• Focus this new version on a school of magic other than evocation
  
  
• Consider granting SLAs and effects that duplicate the Sorcerer Past life SLA's random energy effect.
  
  
• Consider Wildmage type effects that are random.

How about a mix of necromantic and enchantment effects? Debuffs are also a good idea. Sorcs don't currently have any enhancements that let them improve enchantment or necromancy DCs.

[harry-pancreas]

Reread Wizzy other thread and all the comments there.


While I don't have any access to white boards or the like, I do try to get a feeling of what the Devs are thinking.

I sort of get the impression that a third druid+arty+favored soul set of trees would be much more desirable to them than a new Sorcerer tree, perhaps.


So, I ask myself why would this be so?

And then myself answers, look at your last two Sorcerer projects ~ Warmage and AotS.


Both of them sooner or later ran into the situation of competing with or buffing Savant.

Now look at EK ~ it neither competes with nor buffs the Savant trees.

So we have the offensive Savant tree, the defensive EK tree, what is left to build?


I am more used to divines/bards and the like the immediate answer would be buffing allies.
The inverse of buffing allies is debuffing foes.

What do devils in Amarath do a lot ~ they constantly curse us including healing curses.
Or more simply put they debuff us.

Now all the brainstorm so far is good and helpful to the Devs, if you look closely at the Harper tree you will find some ideas from round X of the Warmage project within it.


So, Acolyte of the Skin rerolled might have new goals and ideals.

• Avoid Buffing Savant Trees
• Avoid competing with Savant Trees
• Consider implementing ways to buff the EK Tree
• Focus this new version on Debuffing Foes
• Focus this new version on a school of magic other than evocation
• Consider granting SLAs and effects that duplicate the Sorcerer Past life SLA's random energy effect.
• Consider Wildmage type effects that are random.

you reminded me i wanted to add a healing curse SLA...though it might be worthless if it doesnt work with bosses, and nothing work with bosses...lol

because of all the above is why i focused on SR and some unique abilities (binding chain, telekinesis). AotS could be that "unkillable" guy who can make the killing easier for his group with some debuff/CC (binding chain, telekinesis on that mob hiting the squieshie of the party, the fear/poison paralyzing effects etc).
I'm not sure if i accomplished my goal, but that was the objective, lol

[Silverleafeon]

How about a mix of necromantic and enchantment effects? Debuffs are also a good idea. Sorcs don't currently have any enhancements that let them improve enchantment or necromancy DCs.

Sounds like a good place to start.

you reminded me i wanted to add a healing curse SLA...though it might be worthless if it doesnt work with bosses, and nothing work with bosses...lol

Aye, but it would be cool anyway.

I ran across an enhancement somewhere in my projects (Ravager?) that reduced healing amp of foes.

[harry-pancreas]

How about a mix of necromantic and enchantment effects? Debuffs are also a good idea. Sorcs don't currently have any enhancements that let them improve enchantment or necromancy DCs.

that could enter the PM's terrain. I have always seen devils as conjuration and abjuration specialists, and demons as transmutation (demorgorgon) and necromancy specialists.

Conjuration (Except for web and PW's) and abjuration are kinda meh in DDO but, maybe, it would be interesting (if not OP) to add power word SLA's, or some enhancements that reduce the cooldown.
More i think about it, more i like the globe of invul SLA i saw thrown there in this thread too.

[Silverleafeon]

Ok here is what I am thinking.


For say a third druid/fvs/arty tree ~ its a seller's market {in other words, the Devs want this someday}, so they look and lurk and ponder in their spare time.

But for a Sorcerer tree ~ its a buyer's market {in other words, we need to sweeten the deal}, so they look and lurk but with a convince me I need this type attitude.

This is all very much guess work, please don't take this as known stuff.


So what I want to do is sell them a package deal.

To this project I am adding:

I want to build 2~3 planar ED, ideas for a planar sphere, and an Acolyte of the Skin tree that has multi-select for Devils, Demons and Mind Flayers.

That way we can sell the whole thing as a possible Planar Update {insert cool name here}.
(I know its a lot more work, but in the end I think it will be worth it.)


First thing on my list ~ kill Savant fans with this:

AotS Core 1

Planar Madness I: Everytime you cast a spell or spell like ability that uses Acid, Cold, Electric or Fire as an energy type there is a 25% chance that the type of energy will be changed to another type of energy randomly choosen from this list: Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, or Sonic.

(The day that we can prove we can create a tree that does not buff Savant is the day the Devs sit up and take notice of the possibility of a new sorcerer tree. This day has now come.)

[harry-pancreas]

First thing on my list ~ kill Savant fans with this:

AotS Core 1

Planar Madness I: Everytime you cast a spell or spell like ability that uses Acid, Cold, Electric or Fire as an energy type there is a 25% chance that the type of energy will be changed to another type of energy randomly choosen from this list: Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, or Sonic.

(The day that we can prove we can create a tree that does not buff Savant is the day the Devs sit up and take notice of the possibility of a new sorcerer tree. This day has now come.)

mmm i like random stuff, and i really really don't wanna be negative, but i'm not sure if they playerbase like this kind of randomness. It is true necro/enchantment is PM's terrain, BUT instead of DC's you can add massive spellpower bonuses (negative) and, for enchantment, either DC focus or some debuff to the mob's will save everytime you cast an enchantment spell (kinda like hyptonism...maybe -1 to will save per level of the spell cast).

I love your "planar expansion" idea, too bad they will never give us a planescape setting, sighs. :P

I think putting fleshie sorcs close to WF/BF is a good focus as well. Anyways, just throwing some ideas.

You said debuffing too...i suggest devil/demons/beholder (they're outsiders of xoriat in eberron). Antimagic

[HatsuharuZ]

that could enter the PM's terrain. I have always seen devils as conjuration and abjuration specialists, and demons as transmutation (demorgorgon) and necromancy specialists.

Conjuration (Except for web and PW's) and abjuration are kinda meh in DDO but, maybe, it would be interesting (if not OP) to add power word SLA's, or some enhancements that reduce the cooldown.
More i think about it, more i like the globe of invul SLA i saw thrown there in this thread too.

PM's terrain is being able to self-heal while doing necromancy. Fighters, barbarians and paladins all have the terrain of being able to do melee damage. So what? That's no reason do deny sorcerers the ability to specialize in something other than evocation.

And it's not like you'd have to create all-new spells for necromancy or enchantment, as you would for abjuration and conjuration that make use of DCs.

[harry-pancreas]

PM's terrain is being able to self-heal while doing necromancy. Fighters, barbarians and paladins all have the terrain of being able to do melee damage. So what? That's no reason do deny sorcerers the ability to specialize in something other than evocation.

And it's not like you'd have to create all-new spells for necromancy or enchantment, as you would for abjuration and conjuration that make use of DCs.

ok what you said about is not exactly the same terrain it's true, though i think it would be pretty simillar.

Fighter, barbarian and paladin are all melees but fighters are supossed to be the masters of tactics, barbs the kings of DPS, and pallys the masters of defense (that's the idea, whether it happens or not right now it's another issue), so they're not in the same terrain, they're all melees but different. It's like saying sorcs and wizards are the same because they're terrain is arcane magic.

Wizard terrain is DC casting, versatility
Sorc terrain is fast casting, tons of sp, damage.

Another post of mine states that adding huge spellpower bonuses for neg energy would be good idea for a sorc (it's on their terrain, direct damage)

A sorc using DC's for necromancy, even without self hjealing, would strike me PM with lack of self hjealing, not as a sorc, but that might be just me.


And as i too said, you can work conjuration and maybe abjuration with cooldowns or whatever rather tan DC.


oh, and self healing while doing something else is everyone's terrain now, except fleshie sorcs and barbarians.

[Silverleafeon]

mmm i like random stuff, and i really really don't wanna be negative, but i'm not sure if they playerbase like this kind of randomness.

True and it might be very hard to code as well.

It is true necro/enchantment is PM's terrain, BUT instead of DC's you can add massive spellpower bonuses (negative) and, for enchantment, either DC focus or some debuff to the mob's will save everytime you cast an enchantment spell (kinda like hyptonism...maybe -1 to will save per level of the spell cast).

Aye, just think if an AotS could easily drop a curse on a foe ~ that is -4 to saving throws which is a significant advantage without ever uttering the words school of necromancy.

I love your "planar expansion" idea, too bad they will never give us a planescape setting, sighs. :P

Yes I am very keen on a planar update! Sounds like fun.

I think putting fleshie sorcs close to WF/BF is a good focus as well. Anyways, just throwing some ideas.

You said debuffing too...i suggest devil/demons/beholder (they're outsiders of xoriat in eberron). Antimagic

Love that, how about Mind Flayer or Beholder or Devil or Demon That should be a keen tree when we are don.

PM's terrain is being able to self-heal while doing necromancy. Fighters, barbarians and paladins all have the terrain of being able to do melee damage. So what? That's no reason do deny sorcerers the ability to specialize in something other than evocation.

And it's not like you'd have to create all-new spells for necromancy or enchantment, as you would for abjuration and conjuration that make use of DCs.

ok what you said about is not exactly the same terrain it's true, though i think it would be pretty simillar.

Fighter, barbarian and paladin are all melees but fighters are supossed to be the masters of tactics, barbs the kings of DPS, and pallys the masters of defense (that's the idea, whether it happens or not right now it's another issue), so they're not in the same terrain, they're all melees but different. It's like saying sorcs and wizards are the same because they're terrain is arcane magic.

Wizard terrain is DC casting, versatility
Sorc terrain is fast casting, tons of sp, damage.

Another post of mine states that adding huge spellpower bonuses for neg energy would be good idea for a sorc (it's on their terrain, direct damage)

A sorc using DC's for necromancy, even without self hjealing, would strike me PM with lack of self hjealing, not as a sorc, but that might be just me.


And as i too said, you can work conjuration and maybe abjuration with cooldowns or whatever rather tan DC.


oh, and self healing while doing something else is everyone's terrain now, except fleshie sorcs and barbarians.

Listens with interest.


THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!
GREAT JOB, YOU FOLKS ARE FANTASTIC.

[Silverleafeon]

As we reroll, a little brainstorming.

The devil crew


Succubus ??? thought this was a demon?


Orthon


Pit Fiend


Horned Devil


Bezekira


Bearded Devil



The demon crew



Bebilith


Draegloth


Dretch


Hezrou


Fire Reaver


Flesh Render


Glabrezu


Goristro


Ice Flenser


Jarilith


Marilith sub-race




And the Aberrations team:


Mind Flayer


Beholder


Dream Reaver


Will O Wisp (not an outsider??)


Shadow Beholder


Ancient Nightmare


Ancient Flayer


Rust Monster (not an outsider ??)


Drow Scorpion (not an outsider ??)


Mimic (not an outsider ??)


Chaos Beholder


Drider (not an outsider ??)


Evil Eye


Eye Horror

[HatsuharuZ]

I'd take driders and scorrow off of that list. They're abberations, but they're homegrown ones.

Also, lets assume that succubi are devils. I think that the lore has changed what they are a few times... and in one case, I think they changed from being demons to devils due to some divine shenanigans on the part of Asmodeus.

[Silverleafeon]

Sounds wise.

Ok Succubi are devils, Scorro and driders are scrubbed.

She is a bit too cute to fall into the demon team, looking at the pictures.


Someone suggested bringing back the Globe of Invulnerability for a possible Beholder anti-magic sla direction, and I like that a lot.

Mind Flayers are into mind control and like, maybe they could pick up the domination routine.

Those demons look like brutes to me, hmm... a possible boost to EK.

We know the devils curse like mad...hmm....

[Drathsiddh]

Sounds wise.

Ok Succubi are devils, Scorro and Driders are scrubbed.

She is a bit too cute to fall into the demon team, looking at the pictures.


Someone suggested bringing back the Globe of Invulnerability for a possible Beholder anti-magic sla direction, and I like that a lot.

Mind Flayers are into mind control and like, maybe they could pick up the domination routine.

Those demons look like brutes to me, hmm... a possible boost to EK.

We know the devils curse like mad...hmm....

Core One
Choose one of the following paths, Mind Flayers, Devils, Demons.
Mind Flayer You gain charm person as an SLA and deal 1d6 un -typed damage to the target whenever you cast an Enchantment spell.
Demons You gain Nightsheild SLA and gain 5 DR when you cast an Abdjuration spell for 1 minute.
Devils ?

Also, another idea for a tree; "Arcane Forged" basically you have the soul of a dead construct who slowly turns your skin into a construct, which like the PM's will have forms:
Iron Defender Soul: Your soul is slowly turning you into a machine, gain x dr, +2 con, -2Cha and are healed from repair spells, damaged by rust but take a -50 penalty to incoming positive spells and gain the Grease as an SLA.
Then your form slowly increases, giving you that healing option XD.