Order of operations . . . is it PRR then DR?

[Bridge_Dweller]

Or is it DR then PRR?

Talking Lamania, pretty sure on live it's DR then PRR.

[Eth]

Or is it DR then PRR?

Talking Lamania, pretty sure on live it's DR then PRR.

Live is DR then PRR - correct.
On lamma I suspect it to be the other way around currently.
In EE Breaking the Ranks gnoll archers hit me for 0 damage while not blocking at 180 PRR + 60 DR.
This shouldn't be possible with DR before PRR.

[Bridge_Dweller]

Live is DR then PRR - correct.
On lamma I suspect it to be the other way around currently.
In EE Breaking the Ranks gnoll archers hit me for 0 damage while not blocking at 180 PRR + 60 DR.
This shouldn't be possible with DR before PRR.

I thought the same, then I took a heavy armor toon into an EH quest and though damage was in the single-digits to maybe 13 points a shot I still took some damage. With 60 DR and 160 PRR if it worked with PRR->DR wouldn't you be invulnerable in EH?

[droid327]

Its definitely worth testing - if they changed the PRR and DR priority then DR is suddenly going to be a *very* useful mod to stack on top of all the other mitigations

[Grailhawk]

I thought the same, then I took a heavy armor toon into an EH quest and though damage was in the single-digits to maybe 13 points a shot I still took some damage. With 60 DR and 160 PRR if it worked with PRR->DR wouldn't you be invulnerable in EH?

Could be rounding errors are causing the zeros? maybe? Something like 3*.35 = 1.05 getting rounded down to zero for no reason.

But if you are seeing numbers like 14 in EH it has to be something is wonky. Maybe its only some times that the DR comes after PRR?

[Therigar]

I am nearly certain that the priority on Lama is reverse of current live. I've seen this question addressed in other threads.

I believe the reason for the reversal is exactly as has been observed here -- on live it is possible to be invulnerable to damage. By reversing it is not, you will always take some damage if hit even if it is trivial. (Edit: Which means that live might be PRR then DR. I'm far from certain on this, only that I've seen it discussed elsewhere that the sequence on Lama is reverse of what is on live.)

As an aside, it seems to me that this only applies to base damage -- extra damage due to elemental or similar effects still seem to proc presuming that a hit occurs even if the base damage is 0. As far as I can tell, this extra damage is only mitigated by protection effects. I may be 100% wrong here, but it is how it appears to me at any rate.

[Bridge_Dweller]

But if you are seeing numbers like 14 in EH it has to be something is wonky. Maybe its only some times that the DR comes after PRR?

Maybe the rules are different in EE?

A developer comment would be nice so we don't need to guess.

[Ailia]

Think I found the reason for the inconsistencies.

http://ddowiki.com/page/DR

Check the Damage Reduction Scaling section, which doesn't apply on elite, but does on other difficulties. Depending on where this is in the PRR/DR chain, this would cause some major weirdness.

[Seikojin]

Last time on lam, I think it was prr then dr, however the debs know and are addressing it.

[Bridge_Dweller]

Think I found the reason for the inconsistencies.

http://ddowiki.com/page/DR

Check the Damage Reduction Scaling section, which doesn't apply on elite, but does on other difficulties. Depending on where this is in the PRR/DR chain, this would cause some major weirdness.

Good find, and that would explain my observations even if its PRR then DR.

[Eth]

http://youtu.be/pdynYrF3n0Q

Quick test, with rather small sample size.
1. 85 PRR, no DR
2. 164 PRR, no DR
3. 164 PRR, 60 DR

Edit: Archer base damage doesn't seem to be always over 60. Looks like DR first, then PRR.

Any suggestions for a better test?

[Grailhawk]

http://youtu.be/pdynYrF3n0Q

Quick test, with rather small sample size.
1. 85 PRR, no DR
2. 164 PRR, no DR
3. 164 PRR, 60 DR

Edit: Archer base damage doesn't seem to be always over 60. Looks like DR first, then PRR.

Any suggestions for a better test?

Alt account in a brawling pit control the alt accounts damage so that we know exactly what his range is? 20 shot with you at 0 PRR, and 20 shots at X PRR with no DR then 20 shots with X PRR and X DR (would be better to get a flat DR that doesn't jump up and down). Should be enough to figure out the order of operation as long as brawling pit works like i think it does and doesn't have any other scaling?

[Therigar]

Think I found the reason for the inconsistencies.

You are very probably right. Kudos.

[droid327]

Nevermind...too bad if DR comes first, would have been nice but I guess we go back to ignoring it everywhere except TF armor..

[Lifespawn]

Nevermind...too bad if DR comes first, would have been nice but I guess we go back to ignoring it everywhere except TF armor..

What they should have done was make dr work after prr but not put in the tf prr then dr would be useful they simply made everything else irrelevant instead

[Alavatar]

It would be nice if they could make PRR go first, then DR, but have a mechanic that makes the minimum damage that could be taken to not be less than 10%.

[AtomicMew]

It would be nice if they could make PRR go first, then DR, but have a mechanic that makes the minimum damage that could be taken to not be less than 10%.

PRR then DR is way overpowered. With a decent PRR score (~150-200), the 60 DR achievable with shadowscale becomes like ~200 effective DR. That's just insanely broken.

[Eth]

PRR then DR is way overpowered. With a decent PRR score (~150-200), the 60 DR achievable with shadowscale becomes like ~200 effective DR. That's just insanely broken.

This.
Be realistic people. DR after PRR would be way to much. 60 DR is already extremely powerful as it is on its own.

[droid327]

PRR then DR is way overpowered. With a decent PRR score (~150-200), the 60 DR achievable with shadowscale becomes like ~200 effective DR. That's just insanely broken.

The problem with that seems to be the 60 prr which is quadruple what you get from any other source of DR in the game...

I'd be fine with changing it to DR-second, and then reducing TF to 15/25 or something, since its obviously the only piece of DR gear designed with the current endgame damage-mitigation architecture in mind.

Then other sources of DR (ie Barb and FvS and WF) might actually mean something without having to be stat-flated themselves.

[Rull]

PRR then DR is way overpowered. With a decent PRR score (~150-200), the 60 DR achievable with shadowscale becomes like ~200 effective DR. That's just insanely broken.

The problem here is the number 60, not the order.