Another Titan Favour Run.

[FranOhmsford]

Well a couple of weeks ago I got a group together on these forums and we completed Twilight Forge Pre-Raid but messed up the Pillars.

So let's try again to get this out of the way:

Sunday 14th September - 11 PM British Summer Time.
http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/


1. Lieuk {Monk 26}
2. Afroblues {Bard 28}
3. Surulinath {Bard 21}
4. False {FvS 27}
5. Capricorpus {Druid 27}
6. Shadowmeteor {Wiz 23}
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.


Disclaimer: I've only run these Raids 3 or 4 times total so could do with at least one person who knows it well.

[FranOhmsford]

Erm...No takers yet...Not good.


LFM {12-28} will go up at 11pm UK time tomorrow anyway.

[gummolo]

Add Sorgit (FvS lvl 27), I'll hit your LFM if I am on this sunday

[FranOhmsford]

Add Sorgit (FvS lvl 27), I'll hit your LFM if I am on this sunday

Oki Doke.

[FranOhmsford]

LFM going up in 15 mins.

[FranOhmsford]

LFM is up

[FranOhmsford]

Yay - Titan Completed!

Many Thanks to the 5 guys named in the OP!


Next: Elite Abbot!

[Braegan]

We need more raids like this!

As in Raids that require some smart/teamwork. Granted the raid itself is work for only a few folks, but this should be a template for what to do next. Make a raid like Titan again, with something to do for all folks instead of 3-4 in the raid itself and Turbine will have hit a home run.

[FranOhmsford]

We need more raids like this!

As in Raids that require some smart/teamwork. Granted the raid itself is work for only a few folks, but this should be a template for what to do next. Make a raid like Titan again, with something to do for all folks instead of 3-4 in the raid itself and Turbine will have hit a home run.

Uh... Not quite like Titan please - It has far too many issues!

Abbot's probably the best Raid to look at when thinking about what would be best for new Raids: It provides something for everyone to do and most definitely requires Teamwork!

Shroud's a good example as well!

As is Tempest Spine!

And possibly Chronoscope!

Heck even HoX Pre MotU required a strong Party to do their bit - Though that bit could be as little as keeping Beholders out of the centre!


Titan however is not!
- The Chance to fail outright thanks to Pillars/Laser is way too high! {We had 2 misses with the laser even with one of Cannith's best players on the button!}.
- The Pre-Raid is overly convoluted - and I mean ludicrously so!
- The Pre-Raid situation doesn't work with a Raid that can fail so easily - This needs to be a Perma-Flag!
- Difficulty simply doesn't matter - You have as much chance of succeeding on Elite as on Casual! AND just as much chance of failure!

Also: We had to repeat the Pre-Raid tonight thanks to one player starting {and completing} the end fight before the rest of us had even gathered at the entrance! {He did apologise but then left party as we restarted making said apology moot!}
Allowing Griefing possibilities like this is just utterly wrong Turbine!

[Narwal]

Yay - Titan Completed!

Many Thanks to the 5 guys named in the OP!

We did it!

Hint: DDoor helps in the Twilight Forge when short a player or three.

[Braegan]

Uh... Not quite like Titan please - It has far too many issues!

Abbot's probably the best Raid to look at when thinking about what would be best for new Raids: It provides something for everyone to do and most definitely requires Teamwork!

Shroud's a good example as well!

As is Tempest Spine!

And possibly Chronoscope!

Heck even HoX Pre MotU required a strong Party to do their bit - Though that bit could be as little as keeping Beholders out of the centre!


Titan however is not!
- The Chance to fail outright thanks to Pillars/Laser is way too high! {We had 2 misses with the laser even with one of Cannith's best players on the button!}.
- The Pre-Raid is overly convoluted - and I mean ludicrously so!
- The Pre-Raid situation doesn't work with a Raid that can fail so easily - This needs to be a Perma-Flag!
- Difficulty simply doesn't matter - You have as much chance of succeeding on Elite as on Casual! AND just as much chance of failure!

Also: We had to repeat the Pre-Raid tonight thanks to one player starting {and completing} the end fight before the rest of us had even gathered at the entrance! {He did apologise but then left party as we restarted making said apology moot!}
Allowing Griefing possibilities like this is just utterly wrong Turbine!

Well I like those other raids for different reasons as well.

But I really like Titan, because Player Skill > Character Power. Uber Completionists with Max EDs can still fail if they aren't careful enough. And because mostly the pre-raid is more then just a rush through mobs to the finish line. Don't get me wrong I like most of the raids in game for various reasons, but a few more where some thinking is required would be nice.

- The two misses we had were both the fault of the dropper. First one was a miscommunication, Second one was a poor decision to try and make the drop in time after being knocked back by the titans hammer. The knockback could have been completely avoided if that player was wearing a +Balance item. Yes I was the dropper for those not there.
- Pre-raid is kinda like abbot without knowing the puzzles. It seems tedious and like you are being dragged along. But once you know what to do, it does become more fun.
- The raid is actually perma flagged by definition. You don' need to run Hips, Ghola, or Slavers again to run the raid. At the time this raid was released, Von still required you to run Von 1-4 (in order) to flag again for Von5. And when they released DQ after Titan, it wasn't perma flagged. You still needed to run Chains, OoB, Wiz King every time before you could run DQ1.
- You are correct on difficulty. Elite Titan is same as Norm Titan, kind of weird but there it is. He probably does more damage, and you might notice that a lot more if done at level so perhaps that is how he is coded, not sure tho.
- The lock out does suck. But, sadly raid lockouts are a result of players exploiting and turbines fix on it. While it allows for griefing, it wasn't the intention. I notice abbot is on your radar. Abbot has same griefing potential at the start of the fight, if someone starts the fight while folks are still coming in over the bridge it drops them in the water, so be mindful of that.

Over all I am not saying I want every single raid in game to be riddled with puzzles and super difficult to beat and require some thinking and has a chance of real failure if you are not careful. But it is nice to have a broad scope of types of quests. We have the surround + swing + mass heal type of raids covered. We have newbie friendly casual types of raids covered. We have a couple that are a bit more challenging. Most of those however are all heroic. Maybe Epic Titan would be nice, hehe.

[FranOhmsford]

But I really like Titan, because Player Skill > Character Power. Uber Completionists with Max EDs can still fail if they aren't careful enough. And because mostly the pre-raid is more then just a rush through mobs to the finish line. Don't get me wrong I like most of the raids in game for various reasons, but a few more where some thinking is required would be nice.

Titan takes this way too far though {both Raid and Pre-Raid!}.

Character Power means precisely Zip!

A Lvl 28 has the exact same chance of failure as a Lvl 10 {how can this be right when said Lvl 28 gets ZERO XP?}.

- The two misses we had were both the fault of the dropper. First one was a miscommunication, Second one was a poor decision to try and make the drop in time after being knocked back by the titans hammer. The knockback could have been completely avoided if that player was wearing a +Balance item. Yes I was the dropper for those not there. p

I think you're doing yourself a disservice here False.

These are small errors that are punished far too heavily in this Raid in my opinion.

- Pre-raid is kinda like abbot without knowing the puzzles. It seems tedious and like you are being dragged along. But once you know what to do, it does become more fun.

Abbot gives EVERYONE the chance to contribute though - Twilight Forge and especially Titan really don't!

- The raid is actually perma flagged by definition. You don' need to run Hips, Ghola, or Slavers again to run the raid. At the time this raid was released, Von still required you to run Von 1-4 (in order) to flag again for Von5. And when they released DQ after Titan, it wasn't perma flagged. You still needed to run Chains, OoB, Wiz King every time before you could run DQ1.

VoN had that removed yes but VoN 5/6 doesn't have anywhere near as bad a problem with this as Twilight Forge/Titan!
Mainly because People actually run VoN 5/6 Daily!

DQ was ridiculous and frankly even with the removal of the need to run OoB, CoF and Wiz King time and again STILL IS!
ADQ1 really needs to be made into a Raid itself!

- You are correct on difficulty. Elite Titan is same as Norm Titan, kind of weird but there it is. He probably does more damage, and you might notice that a lot more if done at level so perhaps that is how he is coded, not sure tho.

It's not just Titan - The Pre Raid has the same issue with difficulty meaning absolutely nothing - We have no reason whatsoever to run either Raid or Pre-Raid on any difficulty other than Elite {which means at level runs simply won't happen!}.

You may think I'm arguing with myself here but at level the mobs are dangerous on Elite - The thing is though that a prepared group isn't going to have problems with the mobs even Elite at level so why on Earth should they run anything less?
AND
Why should they bother getting an at level group together when a 12-28 group has the exact same chance of completing or failure?
Larger Level Range = Far more players able to join!

- The lock out does suck. But, sadly raid lockouts are a result of players exploiting and turbines fix on it. While it allows for griefing, it wasn't the intention. I notice abbot is on your radar. Abbot has same griefing potential at the start of the fight, if someone starts the fight while folks are still coming in over the bridge it drops them in the water, so be mindful of that.

I'm honestly stunned that you'd even compare the two - Some addlebrain starts Abbot before everyone's in...We just recall and restart with no real bother!
Some Griefer does the same in Twilight Forge and we've just wasted the best part of an Hour of Play!

Compare Twilight Forge lockout to VoN 5 NOT Abbot!
And remember all the issues with people getting locked out of that End-Fight and their chance at SoS!

Over all I am not saying I want every single raid in game to be riddled with puzzles and super difficult to beat and require some thinking and has a chance of real failure if you are not careful. But it is nice to have a broad scope of types of quests. We have the surround + swing + mass heal type of raids covered. We have newbie friendly casual types of raids covered. We have a couple that are a bit more challenging. Most of those however are all heroic. Maybe Epic Titan would be nice, hehe.

But that's the thing - We have multiple Puzzle Raids in DDO - Twilight Forge, VoN 5, Shroud - already.
I'm not against adding more - and I'm no fan of one room Boss fights {VoD works but LoB, MA, FoT and ToD really don't!}.

BUT Personally I'd much prefer more Raids like Tempest Spine - Actual Raids where everybody has something to do and nobody's forced to go to the d@rn Wiki!


Strangely enough Twilight Forge / Titan would be pretty simple to Epic - The only thing that would need changing is Mob CRs after all!
It was originally envisioned as an End-Game Raid and would fit in at Lvl 30 far better than at Lvl 11!

[Thalone]

We did it!

Hint: DDoor helps in the Twilight Forge when short a player or three.

It's even faster if you have a skeleton/dog/wolf. You just have to be careful to kill the warforged in the room before locking your pet in to turn the puzzles.