14 Paladin 6 Monk Plonkcher

[Rull]

The idea is to combine Holy Sword with the goodness of a monk-based archer.
Because to my surprise, even without ranger the feats seem to (almost) fit

point blank shot
rapid shot
manyshot
precise shot
improved precise shot
improved crit: ranged
bow strength

monk: zen archery
monk: 10k stars
monk: precision

epic: bow strength
epic: overwhelming critical
epic: master of forms

the only question is if you have Completionist what to cut.

Because of divine might it's a half-elf and not a dex-to-damage elf.
Still, you need high DEX for prereqs as well as STR, WIS, CHA and CON. Let's just say this build makes very good use of +10 items and tomes

STR 15
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 16+7 lvlup
CHA 14

14 dex to hit 19 with +5 tome
Rest spread out because all stats are good and none is twice as good as another
Max WIS from levelups for max projectiles on 10ks
You'll still easily get 32 CHA, so 49 STR, which is why I went the bow strenght route.

I'll work out enhancements soon.

[Munkenmo]

You're one feat short, Bow Strength requires Weapon Focus Ranged.

[goodspeed]

I think id be a waste of time. to use 10k stars ud need a decent wis investment to solidly get 2 arrow let alone 3.

[Munkenmo]

I think id be a waste of time. to use 10k stars ud need a decent wis investment to solidly get 2 arrow let alone 3.

it only takes 42 to start reliably getting 4 arrows from 10k stars, the ops stat allocation will allow that easily.

[Alternative]

Giving up sniper shot will be a dps loss, when you manyshot with adrenalines you get to use one slayer arrow and 3 times sniper shot per one manyshot use.

Unless you're building for a max possible crit to take a picture of.

[unbongwah]

You're one feat short, Bow Strength requires Weapon Focus Ranged.

Could start with HE rgr dilly, then swap it out once you take Bow STR. But you're right, it still requires dropping one of the feats on his list. I'd drop Combat Archery; that also lowers base DEX req from 21 to 19 for IPS.

Giving up sniper shot will be a dps loss, when you manyshot with adrenalines you get to use one slayer arrow and 3 times sniper shot per one manyshot use.

Are you sure? Holy Sword is +1 crit range & multiplier on every shot; Sniper Shot is +2[W], +2 crit range & multiplier once every 6 secs. It stands to reason that for a sufficiently high RoF, Holy Sword provides more overall DPS, even if it lacks the monster crits of Sniper Shot.

[Ayseifn]

Why not something like Elf:

8 str
16 dex
6 con
16 int
18 wis + 7 levelups
12 cha

Can pick up 1.5x int to damage from Harper and don't need bow strength. 6 con is low but not so bad in Fury, especially for a ranged toon.

[unbongwah]

Why would you go INT- rather than DEX-based on an elven monkcher? You're making an already stat-constrained build even moreso, given your proposal to dump CON (WIS 16 CON 12 makes more sense). You're not saving APs, either: you have to spend at least 14 APs in elf racial tree to unlock AA, in which case you just spend another 5 APs to get elven Grace; whereas Strategic Combat will cost 7 APs.

That's before you consider the question of why you would go DEX-based on a build with easy access to Div Might, ofc.

[Ayseifn]

8 AP in HM for passive Ki generation.
14 in elf for AA.
34? in AA

That leaves 24 AP to spread around. Harper just seemed like a good way to go if Versatile Adept stays as is, can pick up Int to dmg and KTA while you're there. 5 AP in elf for grace will give 2 to hit and 2-4(?) damage, but in Harper should end up being 4 or so ranged power with just those last few AP. Just seems like more bang for your buck.

Why not cha/str? KotC doesn't seem to offer much so you'll be wasting APs just for DM, also hard to fit in bow str on this build. The +5 str from Scream and extra cha bracket(s) should be evenish with Combat Archery, so shouldn't lose any damage from that.

Just throwing it out there as a different way to go, will all depend on how strong Harper ends up being.

[AtomicMew]

Why would you go INT- rather than DEX-based on an elven monkcher? You're making an already stat-constrained build even moreso, given your proposal to dump CON (WIS 16 CON 12 makes more sense). You're not saving APs, either: you have to spend at least 14 APs in elf racial tree to unlock AA, in which case you just spend another 5 APs to get elven Grace; whereas Strategic Combat will cost 7 APs.

That's before you consider the question of why you would go DEX-based on a build with easy access to Div Might, ofc.

Int based replaces charisma and strength, so it actually makes things less constrained. It also saves two feats, which looks to be essential in this build.

[nat_1]

The idea is to combine Holy Sword with the goodness of a monk-based archer.
Because to my surprise, even without ranger the feats seem to (almost) fit

First, the beauty of Plonkchers will lie in the KotC light damage as much as Holy Sword.

Second, are you committed to the goodness of a monk-based archer? Or would you settle for a thrower? Here's one of the tighter build I've seen based on the as yet non-existent Harper tree and pending OC changes:

Another jakeelala based build:
drow dex primary with int secondary (nice since drow gets +2 to both and free shuriken expertise) paladin 14/rogue 3/monk 3
monk feats: precision, dodge or deflect arrows
feats: PBS, RS, quickdraw, adept of forms, master of forms, IC thrown, IPS, OC, grandmaster of forms, holy strike, blinding speed, doubleshot
6 drow 2 dex
6 ninja spy extra shuriken
35 harper 4 dex, versatile adept (24 MP/RP), half int to damage, improved deception
15 acrobat shadow dodge 6 dex, 1 dex
11 kotc 3d6 light damage with shurikens
7 ap left to work with if the math is right

Dps stats are reduced to dex and int.

For the time being some things are going to scale (with Melee, Ranged, or Spell Power) and some are not. Until all things are equal the best dps is going to come from sticking to that which scales. KotC light damage per hit reportedly scales.

If you want to see an example of scaling verses not roll up a Bard/Wiz that has Resonant Arms and an EK spellsword toggle. Pump your Resonance and whatever element goes with the toggle you picked and watch the difference in damage. KotC's light damage is supposed to scale with Melee Power, which might not be available from as many sources as, say, Resonance, but it's supposed to scale "with 200% melee power" which seems to mean you need less of it than you would if it scaled the same as spell damage.

I'm personally not feeling any love for AA until it gets a pass to make imbues scale.

Edit: 9/5 Lama update reduced light damage to scale with 100% Melee Power.

[unbongwah]

Int based replaces charisma and strength, so it actually makes things less constrained. It also saves two feats, which looks to be essential in this build.

Well, you still need decent CHA for Div Grace; but I forgot about Know the Angles when I posted. In which case, maybe DEX+INT+WIS (for Grace+KtA+10K, respectively) would be the better way to go, since you need base DEX 21 for CA and I can't see putting more build pts into INT than DEX on this build.

Anybody who proposes dumping CON is still stacking the deck against themselves, though.

[Rull]

The other route would be:

14 Paladin 6 monk:

point blank shot
rapid shot
manyshot
precise shot
improved precise shot
improved crit: ranged
master of forms

monk: zen archery
monk: 10k stars
monk: precision

epic: combat archery
epic: overwhelming critical
epic: completionist, or insightful reflexes

STR 8
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 16+7 lvlup
WIS 16
CHA 8

or something like that...

Going paladin with 8 cha and not using divine might at all feels so weird... paladin doesn't fit the build at all but it still feels strong.

[daniel7]

I don't know if you can stretch your stats out enough to make this build work but what if you play it as a TWF that throws shurikens when your 10k stars is off cool down? It looks like the new Holy Sword spell will work on shurikens, maybe hand wraps too. Obviously you shouldn't make a build off of what might happen in the future but your feats would look something like this:

Human
Feats, not necessarily in this order:
1. TWF - Monk
1. Dodge
1. Precision
3. Mobility
6. Empower Healing or Maximize
7. ITWF - Monk
9. Improve Critical
12. GTWF
15. Improve Critical - Ranged
18. Quicken
20. Ten thousand Stars - Monk
Epic Feats:
21. Overwhelming Critical
- ???
- ???

Other feats to consider:
- Spring Attack
- Extend, take early then trade out
- Master of Forms
- Toughness, Epic Toughness
- Great Ability

Even a 36 point build with +3 tomes all around is still stretched thin. Also, why would you build this instead of a Tempest Ranger? Flavor? LoH and more healing amp? Maybe a more interesting way to do a paladin life.

[giftie]

I think this thread is still relevant, and I'd like to share my experiences with this split.

I went Elf rather than Helf or Self. Elf gives more flexibility and allows Grace or Dragonmark should you want it. Also the +2-4 to-hit and damage to Longbow (from Weapon Training) is pretty powerful.

Initially I went max WIS and secondary DEX for Grace. I then switched secondary from DEX to INT and went Harper. At least with a max-WIS Elf, damage increase was negligable for going Harper.

Right off the bat, I lost 6 attribute points from my primary damage attribute (2 from race, 4 from Insightful bonus which doesn't stack with KtA), and 2 points of to-hit/damage from Weapon Training III and IV - in total +5 to-hit/damage. I found it really hard to reach 42 INT before Insightful bonus (which would give +8 to-hit/damage from KtA), but I suppose it's possible with better gear. But the net gain for me was +2 to-hit/damage if I did my match correctly.

However, I did manage to squeeze in 6 ranged power from Harper - but at the cost of Sacred Defense and lower starting CHA - a net loss of +6 will/fort, +8 reflex (still on the fence about IR) and 25 PRR/MRR. So while Harper is better damage, there's definitely merit to a more survivable WIS/DEX-build. Of course, should one go max INT instead of max WIS, the argument for Harper is stronger, but not by much. Though I do like that Harper gives me the option to melee with Walking Stick (for instance during the 30s period between 10k Stars when MS is on CD).

My heroic feat setup is the same as in Rull's last post, except I took Emp. Heal instead of CA at 24 and I'm still undecided about level 27 feat (level 26 atm). Starting attributes 8/16/14/16/16/8. AP layout: Elf 14, AA 36, Shintao 1, NS 11 and Harper 18. Twists are Enlightenment, Dance of Flowers and Cocoon (no Pin/Whistler).

[Avocado]

You beat me to the post. Kudos to you for posting though.

I've been running this build at cap on Khyber for 3 weeks now. I went sunelf and did int to damage. Works out to be more damage then the elf dex to damage if you take Know the Angles.

40 Int = +15 + 7 angles
41 dex = +15 + 4 elf enhancements
At least with my gear.

Overall, very impressed with the build. Up to 12-13k per adren slayer shots that arent 19's or 20's.

I stuck to the full wisdom build starting at 18 with all levelups. levelups in int is a waste. +7 int (9damage) or +7% chance to get more arrows during 10k.

At 27 I took blinding speed as I use TF for the undead and there are a lot of undead now. Pinion for everything else though for the expanded crit.

[goodspeed]

You beat me to the post. Kudos to you for posting though.

I've been running this build at cap on Khyber for 3 weeks now. I went sunelf and did int to damage. Works out to be more damage then the elf dex to damage if you take Know the Angles.

40 Int = +15 + 7 angles
41 dex = +15 + 4 elf enhancements
At least with my gear.

Overall, very impressed with the build. Up to 12-13k per adren slayer shots that arent 19's or 20's.

I stuck to the full wisdom build starting at 18 with all levelups. levelups in int is a waste. +7 int (9damage) or +7% chance to get more arrows during 10k.

At 27 I took blinding speed as I use TF for the undead and there are a lot of undead now. Pinion for everything else though for the expanded crit.

wouldnt it save a feat just to get goat boots or innocent?

[Bloodskittle]

Check out this version of the build that already exists, it fits out all the feats quite well.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...onkcher-Theory