Ranger FOTW VS LD VS DC - EH Cabal

[Thayion516]

First off. I'm a terrible player. Well maybe not that bad lol. But honestly I rarely attempt to solo EE and usually do EE with friends and guildies. I enjoy the group game. But I do farm EH alot for renoun and loot. I feel like this type of game play reflects a broader audience in DDO. Us weekend warriors that may hit up some EH during the week at night and group with freinds/guildies on the weekend to raid or tackle EE.

Basicly this is a first life Exploiter Ranger with some suboptimal gear and weaponry. Basicly built like this.

Just grabbed the first items that fit in slot. Only really paid attention to Str and Con. Altho epic litany was my only trinket option.
t3 and a t2 kopesh.
Pinion upgraded 2 times
human enhancements with mostly tempest and dws.

Ranger FOTW http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KUNu8E4P1rE

RangerLD http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FyMRAMmLixI

Ranger DC http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e6YYctIKJ2c

My thoughts on each later. Enjoy.

[Nayus]

Their times are about equal, at least.

[Pescha]

Legendary dreadnought is lagging behind, i feel insulted to see a martial destiny do worse than a divine based destiny (DC), devs this needs to be adressed as fast as possible. Thanks for providing this video.

[Nayus]

Legendary dreadnought is lagging behind, i feel insulted to see a martial destiny do worse than a divine based destiny (DC), devs this needs to be adressed as fast as possible. Thanks for providing this video.

I was waiting for this.

For someone to show up and say "LD should be doing that thrice as fast!!!"

[LordArkan]

A single data point with ~20s difference in a 10 minute solo run is "insultingly lagging behind".


This is why I can't take these "OMG BLITZ IS NERFED" complaints seriously.

[Thayion516]

About the times...

It's a moot piont. The video capture software freeware had a 10 min maximum. Also I did take some time to gather extra mobs or skip some to better show damage intake, AE output ect..The videos were more about combat contents then completion time. On live I can run that quest in like 5 minutes in FotW just Adenaline kill the nameds and run to end of quest.

About FoTW...

It felt strong. Definitely the strongest tree of the night. Fury shot was a beast. Often times the mobs never even made it to me. I could Adrenaline kill the named in a single hit or 2. Also with 2WF the counters kept coming in. I don't think I actually ran out. I could charge a counter and garentee one mob would be dead as I entered a room quickly followed by another counter kill as I cleaved 2 or 3 mobs. One shooting mobs is in fact good crowd control and mitigation, who knew!?

Fast healing did some work with my self heals. I actually did not need to cocoon very much at all. I always felt in control of my health. Primal screen kept my hps buffed up some also.

Fury shot and large control able crit sequences made FotW the best feeling and fun ED of the night for me.

About LD...

The first thing I would like to say is I really enjoyed the new charging mechanic over the old one. It was not difficult to keep up, even on the named fights. Definitely an improvement.

Now overall I would say if all the damage was averaged between FotW and LD, they would probably be pretty close. However I could not pull off the raw power I felt from Fury or on live currently. The +50% was knowticable, but felt lackluster. Just a small increase in base damage is what I thought as I saw 200ish over and over. One of the things that REALLY! Disappointed me was the Manyshot activation. It only received the +50 and none of the rest of the MR from the tree itsself. I think at one point I was unable to kill a displaced Lore master with a blitzed manyshot!

I could tell that the critical multiplier was active when it hit seeing 900 a few times but I can't remember breaking the 1k mark.

EDIT: As I re-watch the LD Video. I was indeed wrong as I did break 1k on criticals. usually 1k-1400. Maybe i just was not paying attention or they did not stand out to me after the large crits i was getting out of FOTW. My apologies.

On mitigation I relied heavily on my self healing and a twisted cacoon.
Remember me telling you I was a bad player? I actually died one time in LD as I got into a group of 10 mobs or so and got stuck floating in the air. Unfortunately they interrupted my heals 2 or 3 times and I died. I was too embarrassed to post that video so I shot it again >. <....

About DC...

Definitely the most survivable tree. The damage was not bad either. Consicrated ground provided a surprisingly good AE damage and heal. The epic momen worked as expected and was similar to LD damage while active, but provided +50% doublestrike which was knowticable. I did like how there was no charge mechanic behind the epic moment, just wait on the timer and hit it.

The big draw here was the heals and defense. I felt unkillable, even tho I dropped cacoon in favor for Primal Scream. The heals from ground always topped me off and kept me moving with minimal effort. I think I even stood toe to toe at the last fight on purpose to see how Ground kept me up. It was np.

Overall, as much as it pains me to say it. LD felt the weakest. It's damage output was marginally better then DC but without the survivability. FoTW was a beast due to the large controlable criticals and some passive healing. I just could plow thru rooms with a Fury shot or chained melee Overloads.

After doing this I'm convinced that the nerf to Blitz was over the top. Blitz needs to be returned to a minimum of 100 MP with 10 counters to stay competitive. It seems the tree does not bring anything to the table but DPS, yet it does so anemiclly. As it stands right now, after using LD for almost 2 years, I will be dropping it for FoTW. I honestly can't think of a single scenario in which LD would be better enough as it stands right now, to go back to it.

Thanks guys. Discuss it up. I hope that the devs real my work here as it took the better part of a weekend to make these as they are my first vids lol!

2nd Edit: You Know as I reread over the DC tree in wiki. Zeal of the Righteous, the "epic moment" I was referring too is not really a epic moment! Its the last of the core abilities! As such, it is quite good as it gives a very nice boost in melee DPS with the +50MP and +50 Doublestrike.

The actual Epic Moment of the Melee DC tree is Cometfall?? LOL what??

[B0ltdrag0n]

Overall, as much as it pains me to say it. LD felt the weakest. It's damage output was marginally better then DC but without the survivability. FoTW was a beast due to the large controlable criticals and some passive healing. I just could plow thru rooms with a Fury shot or chained melee Overloads.

After doing this I'm convinced that the nerf to Blitz was over the top. Blitz needs to be returned to a minimum of 100 MP with 10 counters to stay competitive. It seems the tree does not bring anything to the table but DPS, yet it does so anemiclly. As it stands right now, after using LD for almost 2 years, I will be dropping it for FoTW. I honestly can't think of a single scenario in which LD would be better enough as it stands right now, to go back to it.

Thanks guys. Discuss it up. I hope that the devs real my work here as it took the better part of a weekend to make these as they are my first vids lol!

I like your feedback. I too am finding that LD needs a bit more of a uptick in damage as well. Though Im wondering what the other melee trees would need then to still be competitive.

[Thayion516]

I like your feedback. I too am finding that LD needs a bit more of a uptick in damage as well. Though Im wondering what the other melee trees would need then to still be competitive.

Well FoTW is still an excellent tree for anyone with 2 weapons to replenish Adrenaline and is very synergistic with manyshot. Overall it still remains a very good choice.

DC will function well with any divine build that can take advantage of healing amp and smites. It brings good (not great) DPS also in Ground and it's epic moment.

[B0ltdrag0n]

Well FoTW is still an excellent tree for anyone with 2 weapons to replenish Adrenaline and is very synergistic with manyshot. Overall it still remains a very good choice.

DC will function well with any divine build that can take advantage of healing amp and smites. It brings good (not great) DPS also in Ground and it's epic moment.

I think so as well. I almost feel that DC should lose its + to melee power though (assuming LD doesn't get buffed) to distinguish them just a bit more.

[Thayion516]

I think so as well. I almost feel that DC should lose its + to melee power though (assuming LD doesn't get buffed) to distinguish them just a bit more.

While I do agree with balance, as ambiguous as that term is, I do not want any thing to be heavily nerfed. I have always been in the opinion of small changes with extended periods of data gathering. Large changes often lead to too much variation in a system and is undesirable. I have no problem with the state of DC as it serves it's purpose well, a solid divine sphere that expands and strengthens their core abilities. However I must still stick with my opinion that LD blitz should be raised to +100MP to compensate for the durability DC offers its customers.

[Pescha]

This needs to be adressed, i am sick of elitists posting Videos without showing These Aspects and thankfully someone finally provided the Data which Clearly indicates that LD is lagging behind in both dps and survivability. Can a developer take a look at this please ? But again, thank you for providing this video hopefully it will open some eyes.

[Monkey_Archer]

Very cool videos, I watched all 3.

I agree with most of your conclusions except for the fury vs blitz one, but seeing these videos I definitely understand where its coming from. I'll try to explain what I mean.

Fury has a very large difference in performance depending on quest difficulty and quest length. Adrenalines are semi-limited, so they perform much better in short quests. On EH you basically 1-shot trash and take about a 1/3rd chunk out of named mobs. On EE however, adrenaline is more used for the CC on trash, and barely noticeable on names. Obviously the manyshot synergy cannot be ignored as well, blitz is definitely looking weak for ranged characters so I agree with that sentiment. For purely melee character with tactics however, blitz is much stronger then it gets credit for from both these videos and my own.
Also, I notice a massive difference in survivability while blitzing vs fury, something not quite as noticeable on EH. The extra 30 PRR from blitz and 25% damage reduction boost makes a huge difference when mobs hit for 100+

As for buffing blitz to 100 melee power... Personally I think it would be too much relative to the weaker destinies like GMOF, shadowdancer, Sentinel (and fury on EE). However, it would be appropriate if you are only trying to balance it vs Divine crusader. One thing I do agree with is that blitzing does not feel as impactful (dps wise) then it probably should.

I think an interesting compromise would be to remove the melee power from the LD and DC cores, and buff blitz back to 100 melee power. This would be a 12 melee power loss for DC and a 32 melee power gain for blitz. I'd say this would achieve the same DC vs blitz balance without overshadowing the weaker destinies as much.

[Thayion516]

FOTW is a very good tree IMO. It has a built-in CC/Helpless enabler, Massive controllable Crits and with TWF recharges Overloads at a good rate. The Synergy with manyshot is almost a must for FOTW. I have manyshot on my live Juggernaught, and with the total loss of almost all of Blitz on ranged attacks, LD is now a bad choice for me. Its either keep manyshot (which I REALLY ENJOY) and swap to FOTW, Drop my Staff and approach it some other way... I got no clue yet. OR Go full Melee and go DC/LD. Honestly with these 3 trees running so close now (with my opinion being LD is actually lacking in options) I think Keeping Manyshot > Blitz. But I'm going to need to rebuild my weaponry after collecting/up grading stuff for 2 years 8(

So much for not wanting to make people change builds or nerf anything like Sev stated a month ago. ..

[Thayion516]

Im Planning on running some EH Storm Horn quests tonight and record them. Any Suggestions? Honestly I dont know them that well, so this should be fun! LOL.