Turbine now wants to sell PrEs.

[janave]

There is no problem with selling PREs until it doesnt give vertical power, that is: unlike Bladeforged - BF makes almost all other melee alternatives gimped in comparison.

Solution: Add PREs that do not power creep, add to diversity and flavour.

Noone really wins when you are forced/locked into specific Race/Class/PrE combinations, not even the casual players, the constant suggestion will increase to go ungimped on whatever "flavor" chars we are playing.

DDO could use a competent director/manager who can make money without adding power to the store.

[Gremmlynn]

Selling trees is on par with leveling sigils in my book.

Not really, trees are one and done, not a recurring cost every 4 levels one gains. Trees are also optional, the Harper tree for instance doesn't look like anything I would have much use for, while gaining the next level is a major part of the game.

[Oxarhamar]

Not always. I have seen Lam forums under NDA, and at that time there were headers to that effect posted. There are no headers, atm. This is not the first time GD has had a discussion about upcoming Lam features/issues. A good way to check is to find out whether free accounts can currently see the Lam forum.

with all the questions I would assume they cannot

[Tscheuss]

From what I have seen, the Harper tree is unique in that it can be accessed by ALL classes.

[Chi_Ryu]

with all the questions I would assume they cannot

I very rarely bother to log in to the forums,and can always see the Lammania forums when not logged in.

Only time in recent history I've had to log in to see them was when Shadowfell was in beta.

[Zachski]

*squints at the Harper tree*

Am I missing something? Because this seems like a useful but not even necessary addition to a build.

Regardless, I'm siding with the people saying "Turbine needs to make money." This doesn't seem anywhere near the level of bladeforged broken.

As near as I can tell, Harper is a "Nice if you have it, but not necessary to have in the first place."

It's not like Turbine is selling feat slots or extra AP.

Guys, DDO isn't even half as P2W as other P2W games. You don't have to buy these ridiculous costumes that make up 80% of your stat make-up while allowing you to deal viable damage in end-game. You don't have to buy consumable items that give you a necessary buff to compete in big boss fights. You don't have to buy an item just to be able to talk with people in a general area.

You know what you do get to buy? More content. And more content. And some optional but not necessary features. A F2P player could play at end game with just the F2P races and classes... granted, they'll suffer due to the lack of EDs, but at that point they should be invested enough to be spending SOME money, because that's kinda what they SHOULD be doing.

That isn't P2W.

One of the reasons DDO is bleeding players is fairly simple. Not enough advertising. I was drawn to DDO by the broccoli getting roasted by a dragon, announcing that the game was free to play. Since I'm a poor-tier gamer, this was great news. Now? I barely see any advertising anymore.

[Pescha]

You really want to know ? First they turn masters blitz into childs play (reducing its power to 50 melee power) so they can introduce some random tree with some amount of melee power (snatched away from blitz) which should belong to masters blitz in the first place and then of course *the all is fine crowd* again thinks it is ok to mess with it that way... I mean comeone if you didn't see it coming you are either blind or ignorant. Won't be too long till they start taking adrenaline clickys out of fury of the wild just to reintroduce it in another random pre. Whos fault is it ? Folks deeming masters blitz too powerful so in fact you have brought this upon yourself.

carry on.

[Ausdoerrt]

Oh, welp, did Turb devs got to Korea for a vacation again?

Gees, I've played some dying Korean f2p MMOs and they weren't this horrible about money-grabbing. Good thing nobody plays DDO, so this shame is a private matter between the few remaining stragglers.

[Avenging_Angel]

There is no problem with selling PREs until it doesnt give vertical power

I'm siding with the people saying "Turbine needs to make money." This doesn't seem anywhere near the level of bladeforged broken.

Where do you draw the line? Who gets to decides what's powerful enough to be ok to be sold, and what's OP and shouldn't be sold?

Enhancement trees shouldn't be in the store because it means selling raw power and opens the way to worse and worse practices. "There's already other p2w options in the store" is NOT a justification to add more.

[Battlehawke]

Terrible, terrible argument. You can sell stuff, stay afloat and have a reasonable business model. The "custom cosmetic mirror" is a good example of that. Airship beacon. Extra storage space. Extra character slot. Hall of Heroes. Bags. All reasonable.

Again, selling raw power is not reasonable, because you can't trust them (or any company, mind that) to not tailor the content in order to require the paid options to reasonably complete it. The argument "but it's not THAT op" doesn't work either, for this same reason.

"Whining" about not getting the penthouse when I don't even want to pay the price of the cheapest room in the hotel does't make sense either, but people do it. Become a VIP or pay...... Those who pay for more, deserve more. Sorry......

[Battlehawke]

Oh, welp, did Turb devs got to Korea for a vacation again?

Gees, I've played some dying Korean f2p MMOs and they weren't this horrible about money-grabbing. Good thing nobody plays DDO, so this shame is a private matter between the few remaining stragglers.

.......Yet, here you are......

[Vint]

"Whining" about not getting the penthouse when I don't even want to pay the price of the cheapest room in the hotel does't make sense either, but people do it. Become a VIP or pay...... Those who pay for more, deserve more. Sorry......

You don't get it. This tree is a trial run that is not OP. The problem is when they start selling more powerful trees in the store and we say it is fine to have OP things. (And we know they will)

I wish Cordo could show you how much I have spent on this game; I would be living in the DDO penthouse. My main problem is we nerf things because they are OP, but is acceptable to unbalance the game via the store.

No sour grapes here my friend as money is not the problem. Balancing the game and the and then unbalancing thru the store is.

[Battlehawke]

You don't get it. This tree is a trial run that is not OP. The problem is when they start selling more powerful trees in the store and we say it is fine to have OP things. (And we know they will)

I wish Cordo could show you how much I have spent on this game; I would be living in the DDO penthouse. My main problem is we nerf things because they are OP, but is acceptable to unbalance the game via the store.

No sour grapes here my friend as money is not the problem. Balancing the game and the and then unbalancing thru the store is.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you are complaining about something that hasn't happened and probably won't I've played this game for 8 years and many other MMO's. There is always "balancing" going on. There is always something Overpowered in the game and the players always gravitate towards it.

[Knobull]

Is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prestige_classes what "pres" is?

[Vint]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you are complaining about something that hasn't happened and probably won't I've played this game for 8 years and many other MMO's. There is always "balancing" going on. There is always something Overpowered in the game and the players always gravitate towards it.

I agree that balancing issues have been a problem for a long time now. I still do not see how we can rationalize that it is okay to balance the game but we allow it to be unbalanced thru the store.

As I have stated in other threads, Turbine will run off more players and instead of fixing the

Double logins
Massive bugs (duping)
“Quality of life fixes”
NO ENDGAME
Or a million other reasons

Turbine will just cut their losses and tell players if they do not like it to GTFO. This is fine as it is their game, but when people complain that there is no one to join their LFM (currently happening) and we start seeing more and more cash grabs (because we have to make up for what the people who were run off were paying), you know where to put the blame; the people that rely on P2W as their main source of income.

[IronClan]

Oh hey it's the weekend popcorn thread! Some people just aren't ever going to be happy. There are people in this thread who 5 years ago the first post I ever read sounds exactly the same as the ones in this thread, they have literally never posted anything but those kinds of posts... Over years they accumulate like dirt on a filter. Becoming more in number and volume, just like heavy sludge accumulates at the bottom of the bucket. This forum needs a backflush. Blast all the accumulated sediment out. They can always hang out over in "the grease trap".

Monk, Half Orc, Artificer, Bladeforged, FvS, Harper Agent, PDK, Shadar Kai, Epic Destinies, Drow... One of these is not like... er no wait... All of these are exactly like the others.

Claiming this is something new and over the top is just "oh look at me I'm complaining again just to complain" hyperbole. It's worse than that, because it's clearly not new, and they clearly KNOW it's not new, and yet here they are bold faced trying to dress it up and parade it around like some new Evil they've found out. Pretending it's a big deal anyway out of boredom or just shameless dishonesty.

[Cathimon]

*squints at the Harper tree*

Am I missing something? Because this seems like a useful but not even necessary addition to a build.

Regardless, I'm siding with the people saying "Turbine needs to make money." This doesn't seem anywhere near the level of bladeforged broken.

As near as I can tell, Harper is a "Nice if you have it, but not necessary to have in the first place."

It's not like Turbine is selling feat slots or extra AP.

Guys, DDO isn't even half as P2W as other P2W games. You don't have to buy these ridiculous costumes that make up 80% of your stat make-up while allowing you to deal viable damage in end-game. You don't have to buy consumable items that give you a necessary buff to compete in big boss fights. You don't have to buy an item just to be able to talk with people in a general area.

You know what you do get to buy? More content. And more content. And some optional but not necessary features. A F2P player could play at end game with just the F2P races and classes... granted, they'll suffer due to the lack of EDs, but at that point they should be invested enough to be spending SOME money, because that's kinda what they SHOULD be doing.

That isn't P2W.

One of the reasons DDO is bleeding players is fairly simple. Not enough advertising. I was drawn to DDO by the broccoli getting roasted by a dragon, announcing that the game was free to play. Since I'm a poor-tier gamer, this was great news. Now? I barely see any advertising anymore.

Lack of advertising is indeed crippling. But this game is P2W, the moment you can buy stuff that aids you mechanically, like mana potions, it's P2W. The AH on D3, it's P2W. There's no denying that we lose out new players due to the P2W aspect. The fact that it requires much more investment than before, back in 2009 unlocking everything required a lot of work, but was feasible. Now it clearly isn't. And we also lose out on new players because they look around and they see how far DDO players have gone. It's almost as if completionist is a common thing to have, TRs are the majority of the players, I can't prove it, but it appears to be the case from what I can see.

It's all just speculation, but I really see DDO is getting more and more closed. All this P2W and P2P has an effect.

[Qhualor]

Monk, Half Orc, Artificer, Bladeforged, FvS, Harper Agent, PDK, Shadar Kai, Epic Destinies, Drow... One of these is not like... er no wait... All of these are exactly like the others.

Claiming this is something new and over the top is just "oh look at me I'm complaining again just to complain" hyperbole. It's worse than that, because it's clearly not new, and they clearly KNOW it's not new, and yet here they are bold faced trying to dress it up and parade it around like some new Evil they've found out. Pretending it's a big deal anyway out of boredom or just shameless dishonesty.

this.

if i don't have a problem with it, than there really shouldn't be such a fuss over it and im always in the middle of the P2W discussions. this tree is exactly the kind of harmless thing Turbine should be releasing that can still be found in game without it being some kind of ultra rare drop or obvious increase in character power like some store items are.

[Battlehawke]

Oh hey it's the weekend popcorn thread! Some people just aren't ever going to be happy. There are people in this thread who 5 years ago the first post I ever read sounds exactly the same as the ones in this thread, they have literally never posted anything but those kinds of posts... Over years they accumulate like dirt on a filter. Becoming more in number and volume, just like heavy sludge accumulates at the bottom of the bucket. This forum needs a backflush. Blast all the accumulated sediment out. They can always hang out over in "the grease trap".

Monk, Half Orc, Artificer, Bladeforged, FvS, Harper Agent, PDK, Shadar Kai, Epic Destinies, Drow... One of these is not like... er no wait... All of these are exactly like the others.

Claiming this is something new and over the top is just "oh look at me I'm complaining again just to complain" hyperbole. It's worse than that, because it's clearly not new, and they clearly KNOW it's not new, and yet here they are bold faced trying to dress it up and parade it around like some new Evil they've found out. Pretending it's a big deal anyway out of boredom or just shameless dishonesty.

Amen!!

[Zoda]

And I thought Bladeforged was bad...

Pains me to say, but you were not wrong. Bladeforged was bad.